Speakeasy forum


I was suspicious from the gitgo....

by JP Bill / January 16, 2015 5:19 AM PST
Boy who claimed he had been to heaven retracts story, bestselling book is pulled

NEW YORK, N.Y. - A bestselling account of a 6-year-old boy's journey to heaven and back has been pulled after the boy retracted his story.

Spokesman Todd Starowitz of Tyndale House, a leading Christian publisher, confirmed Friday that Alex Malarkey's "The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven: A Remarkable Account of Miracles, Angels, and Life Beyond This World" was being withdrawn. Earlier this week, Malarkey acknowledged in an open letter that he was lying, saying that he had been seeking attention. He also regretted that "people had profited from lies."

I think he's put the final nail in the truthfulness of anyone named "Malarkey"
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If by "heaven" he meant the abode of God, angels,
by drpruner / January 26, 2015 6:31 AM PST

Jesus and the rest- the heaven of the Bible- no 'suspicion' was necessary. He was either lying or mistaken. Among many other reasons, it's no place for kids. Too much adult work to do. Rev 5:10.

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"no place for kids"????
by James Denison / January 27, 2015 2:01 PM PST

Have you forgotten your bible teaching? Or is this some new JW doctrine I've never heard before?

Matthew chapter 18

The Greatest in the Kingdom

And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven....

Luke chapter 18

But Jesus called for them, saying, "Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all."

Mark chapter 10

And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

From one of your favorite books, Ecclesiates, chapter 12

1 - Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain: In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened, And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low; Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

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Rev 5, which you didn't read, therefore
by drpruner / January 31, 2015 4:33 AM PST

"new JW doctrine"? No, biblical. "I've never heard before?" Correct, as usual.

"for you [Jesus] were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."
Rule as kings over the humans living forever in a restored earth (Ps 37:29). Note the emphasized phrases, in plain English, also contradict the man-made Trinity doctrine. Like our Lord's own statement at Rev 3:12, which you haven't read, either.
Children are not said to rule in any of your quotes, most of which are irrelevant.

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Isaiah 65:20
by James Denison / January 31, 2015 9:55 AM PST

American King James Version

There shall be no more there an infant of days, nor an old man that has not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isaiah chapter 11

The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,

I Corinthians 7

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.


Don't be tossing the children out of heaven, or God'll toss you out instead, if you make it.

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James, you keep exposing your ignorance of God's word.
by drpruner / February 1, 2015 5:58 AM PST
In reply to: Isaiah 65:20

Isa 11 is about humans living on the restored earth. Ps 37:29; Rev 21:3,4. No snakes in heaven.
Ditto Isa 65
1 Cor applied to different people, those with a hope of having immortality in heaven. Their children would not qualify unless they grew up as faithful Christians. No kids in heaven.
My hope, in these last days, is to live forever in a paradisaical earth. Ps 37:29; Rev 21:3,4
Go see jw.org

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you keep refusing to accept God's word
by James Denison / February 1, 2015 9:28 AM PST

As expected, you don't even like Ecclesiastes and Revelation, supposedly your favorite books, when it doesn't agree with you. I'm pointing out the principle that God is no respector of persons, even adults versus children, but you failed to catch the point. Even before Jeremiah or John the Baptist or Jesus were born and when Samuel was 5 years old, they were devoted, called, by God. You refuse to believe "from the mouths of babes they shall learn wisdom". There is just too much to disallow your assertion that the children who die won't be in the same place with God, Jesus and the angels. I mean, based on your method of interpretation, I could say, "Hmm, I don't see any JW's mentioned as being there", but then that level doesn't seem to be where you wish to go anyway, prefering the world instead, looking for an earthly kingdom. I wish you all the best in that regard.

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"Ecclesiastes and Revelation, supposedly your favorite books
by drpruner / February 5, 2015 1:43 AM PST

??? Searched all Cnet for the last 100 years and didn't find that claim.
"No respecter of persons" is not the topic. No children or snakes in heaven. Adult work going on up there now and in future. So where will good children go? You've seen that here many times, but you keep exposing your ignorance of God's word.
"I don't see any JW's mentioned as being there" The only ones. In a correctly translated Bible- no substitutions- we find the God of the Bible identifying us at Isa 43:10. "You are my witnesses." declares Jehovah. "Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and have faith in me and understand that I am the same one. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there has been none."
At Rev 19 among others we see heavenly hosts crying "Hallelujah", a transliteration of the Hebrew for "Praise Jah [Jehovah] all you people." Just as in the first lines of Ps 146-150, which research will show you are called the Hallel Psalms.
And we refute the slanders attached to God's name since Gen 3- we "hallow" or "sanctify" it- and we preach his sole right to run man's affairs. IOW we 'hallow his name and look for his kingdom to come', as someone once said. So only JWs in heaven. After the general resurrection to a cleansed earth, those who were in ignorance will have a chance to throw in with those who became Witnesses of Jehovah 'while he was to be found.' (Isa 55:6)
At the last, all who chose to remain in ignorance will 'have to know that he is Jehovah'- not Lord or LORD or God or 'act of God'- but Jehovah by name. Eze 12:20 and dozens of other places That's why Armageddon is looked forward to by Christians.

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Isaiah never heard of you, LOL!
by James Denison / February 5, 2015 6:14 AM PST

And that passage is about Christ, the Messiah to come. Promoting yourself are you?

It's also laughable for you to speak of proper translation when the travesty that is the New World Translation was done expressly for JW and WatchTower so they could promulgate their own doctrines and agendas which a real translation exposes as false. Their "translators" didnt' even know the language!! What you use is NOT a translation, but a corrupted transliteration, there is a difference.

Time to witness for Christ, the one whom the Father told you to listen to. Failure to do so will incure both the Father's wrath and that of Jesus.

Psalm chapter 2

"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."


You said, "Isa 43:10. "You are my witnesses." declares Jehovah. "Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and have faith in me and understand that I am the same one. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there has been none."

He was speaking to Jews, they were the witnesses, not later day "Judaizers" like the JW's. The JW's have witnessed nothing. They did get to sit out on some hill tops a few times, and still witnessed nothing, lol. The end was coming in 1914 and they were prepared and waiting. Of course it didn't happen, but nevermind, they came up with an interesting fiction, a fable of sorts, that Christ FINALLY began ruling and that's when Satan was cast down. Makes one wonder if he didn't land in their midst. Wink Especially since they'd previously claimed the same was supposed to happen in 1878.

Oh yeah, some other excitement that didn't pan out in the mid 70's too.

How many times can you get them to head out to the hill? Well no problem now, they have a solution for that. Now many kingdom halls are called "Hilltop" so they won't be so publicly obvious the next time they pull a lemming act, although a few of the more hopeful might go sit on the roof at least.

You can't make this stuff up! If you compare what they said before 1900 to what they claim after that date, you find they coverup their failed prophecies and issue new ones, which then also fail, but due to wider dissemination they feel a need to engage in dissimulation to try and make it something else, explain away yet another failure.

I could go on but....there's plenty out there to read about it if wanted. Like Xfiles used to say, "The Truth is out there".

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You could go on, and do.
by drpruner / February 7, 2015 2:45 AM PST

Maybe a dozen errors of fact in the one post, possibly a new record for you. "Now that many KH are called Hilltop..." ??? That's almost funny.

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I'll admit, I got a chuckle from it.
by James Denison / February 8, 2015 12:14 PM PST

Even if you put a minus in front of pablo since they are all over google, you still get hilltop JW churches and kingdom halls, some even on roads named appropriately enough, "hilltop". At least ya'll have a sense of humor, I think that's what it is. Yes?

"Well we're movin' on up (movin on up)
To the hill top (movin on up)
To a deluxe apartment in the sky.
Movin' on up (movin on up)
To the hill top (movin on up)
We finally got a piece of the sky.

Fish don't fry in the kitchen;
Beans don't burn on the grill.
Took a whole lotta tryin'
Just to get up that hill."

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Something I recall while traveling
by Steven Haninger / February 8, 2015 5:22 PM PST
Hilltop churches in the south

Touring the Appalachians, Great Smokeys, etc., finds a lot of churches with their steeples poking through to among the highest objects in the skyline. Since most of these were erected by the small communities of worshipers, we'd need to ask them why these sites were chosen. I can imagine that visibility as well as audibility of the church bells was a factor in the decision and that "nearer my God...." was but an alibi that sounded good prior to building.
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might be another reason too
by James Denison / February 8, 2015 8:19 PM PST

whoever lives on the top of a hill is more likely to get hit by lightning more than those who don't.

Of course, maybe that's not always a bad thing?

Thieves rob church, then killed by lightning during getaway.

"Video captured from another driver
shows the car speeding down the road last Tuesday, leading police on a
high speed chase after robbing a church in St. Petersburg, Russia.Stock image via Getty ImagesThe pursuit was cut short however, when a bolt of lightning destroyed the car and killed all the passengers inside."

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RE: whoever lives on the top of a hill is more likely to get
by JP Bill / February 8, 2015 10:37 PM PST
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A historical reason.
by drpruner / February 9, 2015 6:33 AM PST

The Bible says, Mat 5:14, "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid."
Also, Psa 2:6, "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion." Jerusalem is on a butte, the highest point in the area.
Also, Zec 8:3, "Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain." Other statements in Isa and Micah show that this mountain represents the true worship of Jehovah, after accounts have been settled. (Rev 16:14,16)
Due to these and other teachings the Puritan part of the colonists thought of the New World in a literal sense. They intended to build "a city on a hill" and wait for The End.
I have been involved in the building of one Assembly Hall and several Kingdom Halls- one is on a hilltop near here- and have yet to see one named "Hilltop". They are usually named after the street out front or the neighborhood.
Steeples: Our take is, 'What a great target for the angels at Armageddon.' Happy
The source of the hilltop stuff from our Fundamentalist is this: During the Great Revival(s) of the 18th and 19th centuries some folks did go to a hilltop and wait to be 'taken up by the Lord'. That of course is not going to happen, even though the Rapture is still popular with some. (Pro 2:21,22) (1 Thess 4:17 is a particular 'going up', not the general one posited by the Fundamentalists.) Millerites and Adventists were among the well-known ones. We are supposed to have done so more than once, the latest in 1914. My own research shows that we were not that group... but let's say we were. There we are, in the fall of 1914, standing on a hill in silly robes, waiting for the Midnight Special or something. I ask, where were y'all's spiritual forebears at that time, and what were they doing? Here, perhaps- interacting with their fellow Christians? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I
BTW I recognize the misinformation about JWs from our Fundamentalist. It comes from anti-Witness websites and bull sessions with like-minded ones. We don't do these things "in a corner" (Acts 26:26); we invite everyone to converse with us at jw.org or at the door.

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by Steven Haninger / February 1, 2015 5:39 PM PST

People have long been written about as having the characteristics of animals...plants and minerals too. What other ways are there to describe gentleness, evil, firmness of faith, etc. You don't say Jane made a face like Jim. She may have made one like a monkey but not like Jim. Maybe she peered like an eagle intent on its prey. She didn't peer like Francis when snooping on her husband. Wink

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speaking of children
by James Denison / February 2, 2015 1:10 AM PST
In reply to: Metaphor
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I think it's a mistake to try and turn scripture into
by Steven Haninger / February 2, 2015 3:00 AM PST
In reply to: speaking of children

a step-by-step handbook for living. It's not a "how to get to heaven for dummies" manual. We take the whole of it and try to understand the nature of God, God's relationship to man and his desires for his creations. We also can't compare man's law with God's law nor can we enact our own laws that offer to us what God has promised. We can get so caught up in trying to adhere to what we believe are the literal meanings of the scriptures that we lose the messages altogether...and too many who call themselves "Christian" spend more time squabbling over their differences than joining together for the good with what they share in common.

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(NT) There ya' go.....
by JP Bill / February 2, 2015 3:14 AM PST
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Jesus made arguments based on single words
by James Denison / February 2, 2015 1:59 PM PST

Even apostle Paul did the same, such as the word "seed". Remember the Temptation of Christ? "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word....." Some things are just general knowledge, some are more specific.

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I was caught up a bit by the reference to children
by Steven Haninger / February 2, 2015 5:48 PM PST

in the thread and the many arguments I've heard about the meaning of those scriptures. The word "children" is it's own metaphor. It can refer to innocence and it can refer to age. One argument I remember regarding baptism and the practice of baptizing early was the use of the word. Did it mean "like a child", "as a child", or "as a child would?". Such argument, IMO, are little more than a distraction from the idea of baptism as we fixate on the need to apply a literal meaning. I also remember my own children and their listening to adult conversations full of metaphor. I couldn't help but be amused by how literally they took every word. We'd need to discuss with them the meaning of the metaphor. I can only conclude that, as scripture also infers, what has been written is but a fraction of what has been voiced.

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OK, now I understand your earlier comment.
by drpruner / February 5, 2015 1:46 AM PST

Try this: Children have complete faith in Daddy and Mommy, who are imperfect humans. We, knowing God's perfection, should have the same "child-like" faith in him. Is that it?

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You should take up that question with
by Steven Haninger / February 5, 2015 2:17 AM PST

the earliest of church fathers and theologians. I have a sneaking suspicion there were a lot of donuts and coffee consumed over such discussions. Wink

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(NT) Ouch...my apologies for the lousy grammar in that reply
by Steven Haninger / February 5, 2015 2:24 AM PST
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Revelation chapter 12
by James Denison / January 31, 2015 10:00 AM PST

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

No children there, huh?!

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Steven, in fact the "child-like faith" metaphor
by drpruner / February 7, 2015 3:17 AM PST

is the correct one. No "Fathers and Doctors" needed. (The Catholic Encyclopedia shows how soon and how far they moved away from scripture. And Catholics should capitalize the words.)
One of the earliest God-given writers pointed out, "With many illustrations of that sort he spoke the word to them, to the extent that they were able to listen. Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them, but he would explain all things privately to his disciples." Mr 4:33,34 The old-fashioned word for illustration is of course parable; getting from one point to another by a curve, not straight line.
Ordinary folks like us can understand child-like faith, but if Fathers and Doctors need late-night discussions and still miss the point, what do we learn from that?
Anyway, the "suffer the children" is another scripture, like the ones our house Fundamentalist uses, that fails to put children as children in Heaven. No kids, no snakes. In fact I was just thinking that the one symbolic snake that did appear in Heaven has been tossed out, long before Cnet started. Rev 12:9, "So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." This is the scripture in fact that gives us a better handle on Gen 3. (As Jerry Mahoney would say, 'Satan was a phony ventriqualist!')
One of our major teachings is not parabolic, was taught by Jesus who copied it from the so-called Old Testament, and reads the same in all Bibles, and solves the 'children in heaven' problem. Yet it's rejected by most of those who are shown it simply because it flatly contradicts their church teachings. In any field but religion such ones would be flamed off the site. Go figure. Happy

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Links not working
by ela1n3ko / April 17, 2015 9:35 AM PDT

Hello!! Can you please send out the correct link? its taking me to Yahoo main page.

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