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General discussion

I want my EITC

Feb 25, 2004 9:02PM PST

Oh wait! I don't qualify because I don't have a child. Minor detail. The Federal government is discriminating against me as I cannot get all the benefits extended to those with children. So, silly as it might sound, I have decided that I have two children, my cats. Heck, they aren't humans, nor even technically children anymore in cat years, but these are only minor details. They are what I say they are so I want my EITC!

Evie Happy

Discussion is locked

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Re:Speaking of getting along ...
Feb 27, 2004 1:47AM PST

Hi Evie,

Actually there are probably quite a few of the poor who own homes who would consider doing that if feasible.

It will usually be those renting places larger than they NEED who would demur at a suggestion to move into a cheaper place or get room mates.

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but...
Feb 28, 2004 2:13AM PST

As a military retiree, you have a lifeboat in case you ever need long term care. (Which I hope you never need.)

My husband was not a retiree, nor with any service-connected problems. Thus he was eligible at the bottom on a space-available basis. Thus it cost $30,000+ out-of-pocket per year for 2/1/2 years for part-time care, plus full price for prescriptions. Space then became available at the Veterans Home (which I consider the very best!). Then he could be hospitalized at the next-door VA Hospital as the need arose. Both filed for his Medicare and supplement, and the VA provided a small additional sum for the Home (taxpayer money).

Some veterans never need it, others have sheltered their assets early and well to qualify for Medicaid, still others are legitimately Medicaid eligible. Those who live near a VA clinic can get their meds there at a very nice discount, regardless. (The VA can negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies.)

There are taxpayers who do not agree with "Keeping the Promise", Ed, and equate it with WELFARE.

Angeline
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Difference being that...
Feb 28, 2004 2:35AM PST

every year the poorly paid military receive an earnings equivalency statement showing that the VA hospitalization care as well as the military medical care for retirees are included as EARNED benefits that are paid dearly for. The statements never indicated that the mdeical care would cease at the time one became eligible for Medicare. None mentioned that if one carried other medical insurance it became primary payer even in military medical facilities even if the person hospitalized was Active Duty and entitled to free care.

Military retirees benefits are a far cry from welfare as they were contracted for and a part of the contracted earnings package Angeline. Military personnel who do not satisfy the retirement requirements also do not receive the benefits they have not yet earned--if they did, that would indeed be a form of welfare.

VA Rehab schooling/training is a combined form of welfare and earned benefits as the schooling portion is paid through GI bill benefits while the subsistince allowance can be considered welfare on the same order as the civilian retraining programs because especially Combat Arms skills are not too often legally marketable in the civilian world.

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Re:Difference being that...
Feb 28, 2004 6:16AM PST

You are correct regarding military retirees. My husband was not a retiree, so the small sum (as I recall, it was $50/mo paid to the Home) he got from the VA was on the taxpayers. I filled out at least 6 pages of personal and financial inormation for them to check to see if he qualified. As our savings had been substantially depleted, he did. I was grateful!

Active duty care is free at military facilities, but not for dependents. Now the active duty member buys dependent coverage like civilians.

My point, Ed, is that there are still those who think the military gets a free ride, and resent it. You know, and I know, that is not the case.

Angeline
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Yes Angeline your point is made...
Feb 29, 2004 5:09AM PST

but it doesn't nullify the fact that EIC is indeed welfare and if it were called such in plain language it might just avoid some of the abuses that Ruth indicated.

It is the abusers that leave a bad taste regarding most Social Welfare programs and their abuse attaches a stigma to it that needn't be.

It is really interesting when you stop to think of it that even the most ardent proponents of WELFARE find insult in a welfare program being called welfare rather than some euphamism that tries to conceal what it is. Consider the Liberal outcry when the TAX REBATES were not initially extended to those who never paid taxes.

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Just butting in here
Feb 27, 2004 1:15AM PST

To say hello, Ruth! It's great to see you here again, and to find out that you and your son are both doing well.

God bless,
Cindi

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(NT)Great to see you too Cindi! Hope you are doing well too.
Feb 27, 2004 11:22PM PST

.

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Hmmm......Louis.....no reply or posts from him in a while....and he has/had lung cancer...
Feb 27, 2004 1:15AM PST

I know it took quite a few months after my lung operation before I returned to posting. Louis has posted some after his operation, but not hardly any since he started further treatment.

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Re:Re:I want my EITC-now for the rest of the (true) story
Feb 27, 2004 2:24AM PST

Good to see ya sis!

Gee ... really didn't mean to start a firestorm on welfare and EITC, but HappyHappy

Billy's future sounds so promising and you are rightfully proud of him. As a college prof, I would just offer a word of caution on this teaching/payment arrangement. It seems that this is something at least a few faculty members are aware of and approve of which is a good thing. But there's no more political a place to work than for a college/university (and I don't mean liberal/conservative). Billy doesn't want to find himself in a situation when some disgruntled faculty member starts rumbling about what this other one is doing ... not to mention the crap some disgruntled student could hurl. Also, should Billy decide not to stay at that school to teach, this presents some resume problems. He is not officially employed by the college, and that arrangement would be difficult to phrase w/o sounding fishy. I would urge Billy to discuss with the faculty or department if there is anything available to make him an official teaching assistant or something of that nature. It is practically unheard of for an undergrad to be teaching any course, and usually even TA's are grad students. Where I teach there is no grad program in the subject, so we do have advanced students running "Discussion Groups" that are somewhat informal Q&A sessions.

Another thing he might want to consider is the potential conflicts between being an adjunct faculty member and graduate student simultaneously. ALL sorts of conflict of interest problems there. Generally students who are funded for their Masters receive stipends and tuition waivers in exchange for teaching duties or conducting research, or ... bluntly ... grunt work for the advisor. It would still be highly unusual (and I've taught at everything from small private to large public colleges and universities) for a grad student to teach an actual course, even a basic one. For their accreditation, the college is actually prohibited from doing so except in the case of a temporary emergency. Not intending to rain on Billy's parade, just a little info from experience that he might want to make sure things really are on the up and up and that the college isn't bending/breaking rules to offer him these opportunities. All it takes is for a new dean or department head, or even just a whistleblower (some other grad student perhaps?) and all bets are off on such handshake-type agreements.

Evie Happy

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I can always count on you, Evie, to help us with info we need to know.
Feb 27, 2004 11:51PM PST

It is good to see you too! And as for a firestorm - you must be kidding. This topic has been really very tame comparatively speaking Happy

I gave a rather abbreviated version of what Billy is doing, so let me expand a little. His "teaching" is under the supervision of the regular professor, and is being counted towards his required internship hours so he will get at least some official credit for this. The advanced classes that he has worked with, and for which the professor is paying him personally, are now in a section which is focusing on the *nix operating systems as used in company intranets and web based business. These hours will also count towards his internship hours - but the reason she has him there for this class is because he is the only student on campus who has actually had real world experience with the *nix, BSD, and related operating systems. To give you an example, on his personal computer he currently has (that I know of) 8 different OS's from FreeBSD to Windows Server 2003 to Slackware Linux - which is currently his primary OS. The students in the advanced networking class are all friends of his - and in fact they were the ones who originally suggested that the professor ask him to come in and help with this part of the course. He is not grading any papers, nor does he have authority over anyone in class - all he is doing is basically tutoring them on these particular OS's and their application. He is also earning externship hours by tutoring a promising teenage boy from the local high school on html and basic programming in C++ and Javascript.

Yes, we both know about the political side of college campuses. That is a really sad thing too. But it doesn't matter anymore where you work, it seems that everywhere (be it private industry or education) you face the same thing.

I really am not sure at all how the thing with the adjunct faculty position and aid getting a master's degree will work - but I do know that Billy very much wants to stay at his current college and teach there. And they apparently want him as much as he wants to stay, so I suspect it is going to happen. His best friend is currently in his final semester, and has just been hired as adjunct faculty in the theatre department. They normally don't tell students these kind of things unless it is pretty much a 'done deal' - so it will probably happen in Billy's case. I was also amazed that they paid as well as they do for adjunct faculty - it is much more than I expected. That is a good thing too Happy

Well, now that I have written a small book, I had better get back to my tax returns. I will try to pop in later.

Ruth

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Re:I can always count on you, Evie, to help us with info we need to know.
Feb 28, 2004 10:21PM PST

Hi Ruth,

Your expansion sounds much better Happy

I was also amazed that they paid as well as they do for adjunct faculty - it is much more than I expected. That is a good thing too

That's one reason I do it! Yes, teaching is basically my passion -- can't imagine myself ever going back to a job in industry -- but being an adjunct pays the bills faster than any other part time job I can imagine Happy

My only concern, having been on committees for curriculum development and accreditation is that his college has to satisfy certain State requirements as to the credentials of its faculty. But if it's not unheard of for someone with a BS to be hired as an adjunct then it should be OK. I just can't think of a 4-year school I've attended or taught at that doesn't require at least a Masters even for adjunct, and a PhD for full time tenure track positions is now pretty much the standard. There are some older faculty that don't have PhD's, but newer hires almost always do.

Evie Happy

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Re:I want my EITC
Feb 26, 2004 5:05AM PST

I try to avoid the discussions regarding low income. But I'll tell you my side of it this time:
I'm a single mom with two kids at home. I have a college degree. I live in a small town with limited job opportunities. I continue to live here because I am close to family that can help with my child care and home needs. I was on public assistance for about 2 years after my (ex)husband left. It wasn't easy to do because I knew of the people that said that if you were on public assistance you were "less than" others, and that those not needing assistance were "paying your way." I needed to take care of my children and was willing to stick my pride in my back pocket and accept the help until I could get back on my feet.
I now need to work two part-time jobs as well as taking on extra work evenings and weekends when I can in order to survive. My gross income is around $22k/year. It doesn't go very far.
My children's father has discovered ways to work around the system. My last child support payment from him was $200.00 last November. That is not an income I can count on to raise my children.
THEREFORE, any help I can get in regard to my income taxes is considered a blessing to me. I work hard, I make a positive contribution to society (well, at least to my community - I hope!) I will utilize any and all breaks I can to make the best of it.
I'm not pointing any fingers at any of you regarding your thoughts/feelings regarding our tax laws; especially you, Evie, since you started this thread. I just finally decided to put in my 2 cents worth.

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Re:Re:I want my EITC
Feb 26, 2004 5:33AM PST

Wow, that's a lot more than 2 cents' worth. Very well written and effective post, Marcia. Makes the point a lot better than any of our little retorts.

I wish you and your family well, and hope you get a few dollars back this year.

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Josh - your words are well-received :)
Feb 26, 2004 6:06AM PST

and I appreciate your thoughtfulness. Yes, I'm getting back some $, and it is ALWAYS received with a smile.


Marcia
Oregon/USA

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I agree with Josh-you deserve congratulations
Feb 26, 2004 6:17AM PST

I have been in exactly your position when my ex-husband left me. It was really hard, and it has taken me a long time to get to where I am now. But keep the faith; I have no doubt that you have a bright future to look toward!

You are precisely the person that the EITC was intended to help. And you deserve every dollar you can get. I just wish that every recipient had your attitude.

Oh-in case you don't know me, I was a regular on the old forums a few years back. Things got to a point that I felt like I was no longer welcome, so I quit posting here. I have been lurking for a while now, and have hopes that this forum can return to its former glory.

Ruth

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Re:Re:Hi Marcia
Feb 26, 2004 6:03AM PST

Boy, I really commend you Marcia. Thats a tough road to hoe. I surely hope theres better days ahead.

Deadbeat Dads is a high priority in this State and they are having pretty good success with it.

George

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Hi, George - and thanks
Feb 26, 2004 6:11AM PST

We actually do very well - I'm a whiz with a budget on very limited income!!! HappyHappy LOL

(don't get me started on non-custodial parents who don't pay their support responsibilities!! The State? Well, they really have been very nice to me - the folks who work the cases. The problem is a lack of resources. They can only do so much now, and then they have no choice but to honestly say "we can't do any more than we are already doing." Sad )

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Ditto to the above!
Feb 26, 2004 6:43AM PST

Hi, Marcia,

Please add me to the list of the others who expressed admiration for you.

As we grew up in the Depression years, we were also champs at budgeting (and doing without), and our kids turned out very well.

My mother had a very low income, and I took advantage of every program to help her. The local government provided light housekeeping once per week, her property taxes were paid by the state, and she got a discount on her electric bill.

Yep- paid for by taxpayers.(except for the electric- that utility has a "Help" program in which customers have $1 or more voluntarily added to their bills).

Re: deadbeat Dads.... in my state, if they can't get blood out of a turnip, they put the turnip in jail. I know this prevents him from working, but it does give pause to work after being freed. payments are then made only through the court, not to the spouse.

Bless you and your family, Marcia!

Angeline
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Re:Re:I want my EITC
Feb 26, 2004 6:28AM PST

People who need help and are trying their best to what is right is the reason I hesitate to discontinue any aid program.

It's sad, but those that abuse the system seem to be more likely get help than those that deserve it.

I'll grant I've complained about abuse and paying taxes etc. But as bad as the system can be abused by some, I really haven't been shown anything I'm convinced is foolproof. So I guess we keep trying to make changes without ruining everything.

Meanwhile, good luck, and good for ya determination to raise your kids well.

roger

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WOW!!! To ALL of you :)
Feb 26, 2004 8:44AM PST

Thank you so much for your support and words of encouragement. You don't realize what it means.

There have been many times that the taxes/low income/ public assistance issues have been brought up. I have sat here and read the comments, often wanting to speak up and say "Hey! I have been there! I'm still there! I'm not a bad person!", but have been reluctant. I certainly know that there are abusers of the system, but sometimes it's someone like myself that is hearing it, and it can hurt.

Yes, times have been real tough, and it's difficult right now. I have saved over the last 7 years (since ex left) to get enough money to buy my home that I have talked about since November. I'm managing (with help from my folks and my boyfriend), but boy is that budget ever tight right now!! LOL Wouldn't give up my home for anything, though. What a good feeling. Happy

Anyway, I have read the nice things said here after my initial post several times - admittedly with a tear or two out of gratitude. You are a great bunch of folks. God Bless You All.

Marcia Happy

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Heh, if you saved enough in 7 years from where you started
Feb 26, 2004 8:49AM PST

to make your downpayment on a house and qualify for the loan, you deserve the kudos.

Even with a credit market overly willing to give credit, getting a downpayment together while scraping by deserves a lot of respect.

As I said, I'll plead guilty to griping, and sometimes perhaps overlooking some of the benefits of a program while looking at the negatives. Just so easy to see just the bad sometimes, and forget the good.

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Oops! Too much credit given there! :)
Feb 26, 2004 9:30AM PST

Let me explain: I saved for 7 years to be able to pay all the fees involved (totaled close to $6k). My parents (Bless their wonderful hearts) paid a 20% down payment for me. Without them I would not have been able to get any house, but especially not the one I wanted most.


Marcia

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(NT)S'ok, you still deserve recognition for your efforts.
Feb 26, 2004 10:33AM PST

.

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Re:WOW!!! To ALL of you :)
Feb 27, 2004 1:27AM PST

Hi Marcia,

I can sympathize because I was there too, single divorced mom no child support. I also took the welfare for 2 years while I went back to school on a Pell Grant and earned my degree, and I also had a happy ending, getting a good job with good bennies. My story ended with health problems forcing me to leave my job, but that's another whole story.

I think people don't begrudge the folks who collect for a couple years while getting back on their feet, they're just tired of those who collect for years while propping their feet up and watching tv!

Cindi

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You got it...
Feb 27, 2004 1:40AM PST
I think people don't begrudge the folks who collect for a couple years while getting back on their feet, they're just tired of those who collect for years while propping their feet up and watching tv!


Another example of why some begrudge legislated support is this one:

A person I know retired from the military a few years after I did and received disability from the VA. Because of his disability he was entitled to the VA rehabilitation education program. He received full tuition, books, lab fees etc. as well as in excess of $700 a month in addition to his retirement monies. Although he was doing all right financially he discovered he could apply for a Pell Grant. He did and was awarded the grant. Essentially he did nothing wrong because he did qualify, BUT he had no real NEED for the grant and his taking it meant that someone who actually did need one was unable to get one as the Pell monies run out early.
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Re:Marcia
Mar 2, 2004 9:21PM PST

You are a nice person yourself. And people like you deserve everyones support and respect. Best of luck with your precious family. After all they are what matters. But I know it's nice to have this forum to share things with the people we hope are our friends. And I hope you never feel hurt or slighted again by some of our careless words.

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(nt) MK, you are an angel :) Thank you
Mar 3, 2004 7:19AM PST

.

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Re:Re:I want my EITC
Feb 26, 2004 10:57PM PST

Hi,

Your story is what EIC was designed for, and happily it can work fairly well for such situations.

The other side of the coin though is what Ruth posted--those who take advantage of the program who really have no need for it.

EIC is Welfare and those who need it need it and like you said "put their pride in their back pocket". Those others though consider it an entitlement and by avoiding the recognition of EIC being welfare are happy to put out their grasping fingers for the "free money".

The difference here is that most of those who, like you, need the assistance temporarily are working toward NOT needing it while those who get it but don't need it are generally striving to continue getting it rather than earning it on their own.

Congratulations! It is certainly better having your "pride in your back pocket" so to speak than lacking it entirely!

Just curious, but if your ex has support obligations and isn't paying why isn't something done about this through the state's child welfare department?

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Child Support
Feb 27, 2004 12:38AM PST

Ok.......this is how it now works in Oregon:

Unless you request otherwise, your child support court order is turned over to the Oregon Support Enforcement Division(SED). They are to keep track of what is owed, and take measures necessary to get the $ for the custodial parent(CP). Support and visitation are totally separate (e.g., you can have visitation regardless of whether you pay or not.) That concept is actually fine with me because I understand that it was made to protect those non-custodial parents(NCP) that want to pay and can't, but should still be allowed to see their child(ren).

If the NCP is more than one full month behind in payments, SED can take measures to garnish wages and/or bank accounts. They can, if all else fails (or, as in my case, the NCP is self-employed and has no bank acct. to garnish), suspend licenses (driver's, contractor's, etc.) Beyond that, if nothing happens, they can do no more right now due to limited resources. Previously, a contempt of court would be next. They cannot do that now. I am hoping (against hope) that my local District Attorney will help. I've been waiting for almost 2 weeks just for a meeting with him.

My ex owes over $24,000 in back support. His licenses have been suspended since December. He continues to work and drive. Police will not intervene unless "he does something illegal."

There's not much else I can do. I have gone as far as the Governor of the State. The various case workers with SED have been wonderful to me. I don't blame them. It is my problem to deal with it beyond what they can help with.

The State of Oregon does not like "Deadbeat Parents", but they can only do so much.

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Thanks...
Feb 27, 2004 1:24AM PST

for the explanation.

Unless you are getting funds from SED anyway, you should still be able to take him to small claims court (multiple times for different time periods of missed payments) and they could enforce a contempt charge.

You might also investigate having his property seized by the sheriff's office for auction and his bank accounts frozen.

Having been on the paying end of child support I can see both sides of the issue but the only non-payers I can actually sympathesize with are those whose ex has gone back time after time for larger "awards" to the point that they simply can't pay. Too often the courts grant the increase without any consideration to the NCP living expenses when these stipulations are granted.

Good Luck!