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General discussion

I need a dispute settling :)

Jul 5, 2005 9:16AM PDT

My friend uses Maxthon. I use Firefox. As you might imagine, this can cause some conflicts Wink

But my main problem is, he seems to think that all browsers are based on IE. He originally thought Maxthon was an independant browser, until I told him to go to www.maxthon.com and read the first paragraph *rolls eyes* But now he thinks that all browsers must be based on IE.

I am fairly confident that this is not true. He reasons that for all browsers to be able to read web pages they must all be the same. I disagree.

As I understand it, all web browsers must be able to interpret web code, most specifically to W3C standards. However, I'm guessing that browsers can then use this information in different ways. Obviously there are certain IE-only features that are coded into IE but are not W3C compliant, so Firefox/Netscape etc. will not display such features.

What I'm looking for is a definitive answer. Are all browsers the same? I cannot believe so, otherwise what would be the point.

Also, it is fairly clear from spyware scans that IE is much more susceptible than Firefox, so there must be some difference in programming code there.

Whatever the outcome, I'm sure he will probably continue to use Maxthon and I will continue to use Firefox, but he seems to think he is right, so I thought you guys might be able to tell me whether or not my interpretation is actually completely wrong and in fact all browsers are the same, or explain exactly how all this works.


Thanks in advance,
Adi

Discussion is locked

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Ford vs Chevy vs Toyota vs Honda
Jul 5, 2005 10:39AM PDT

and on an on. They all use motors and run on the same fuels so they must be built on the same foundation....right? Well, in truth, they have common and uncommon threads and each one accomplishes the basic tasks they were built for though there are differences in appearance, speed, safety, etc. We, the "customers" get to make our own choices and then choose or not choose to argue the soundness of our decision. IMO what it comes down to can be summed up by the latin phrase "De gustibus non disputandem est" which mean you just cannot argue personal tastes. So, I'd suggest you and your friend waste no more time with what cannot be resolved and enjoy the scenery instead of arguing about out of which vehicles windows it's best seen.Wink

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Thanks for your reply
Jul 5, 2005 5:24PM PDT

I'm not trying to persuade him to go to Firefox - it's his choice which browser he uses. However, he seemed to think that every browser is the same, and even said after I revealed to him that Maxthon is based on IE that Firefox must be based on IE as well, but I'm sure that's not true.

What is it about Firefox that makes it safer? What does spyware exploit in IE that it can't in Firefox? There is surely some difference in code there. Or is it the IE specific code that spyware targets?

Of course, surely scenery is best viewed without windows at all Happy (no connotation towards OS intended)


Adi

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In simplest terms and my impression only
Jul 5, 2005 9:56PM PDT

IE is built for the masses and to reach the largest audience. It's open and, shall I say "friendly". Unfortunately, it's also a bit too friendly to those who would seek to do it harm and make victims of its users. MS is a giant and some don't like giants.....They prefer to be "Davids" and make a hobby out of hit and run attacks to find and exploit the "Achilles heels" in popular products. Products like FF and others are not so easy to exploit. They have fewer open gates. FF does not support Active X like IE. Active X can run malicious code on a PC as well as offer some really neat features. It's a matter of what the software writers intentions are. An open gate is an attraction to those who want to roam the grounds for benign purposes and also one for those who want to do mischief. So, the use gets to make their own choices. If you leave a package on your car seat and someone steals it by breaking the window, are you at fault for the theft and have, perhaps, have created a criminal? Modern legal thinking has us blaming the victims as much as the thieves these days. I cannot abide with such notions.

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And my 2 cents worth......
Jul 7, 2005 9:08AM PDT

In fact, it is likely that IE is more like FF than the other way around.

FF is based on the Mozilla engine and Mozilla designed and created the first world mass market browser, Netscape in the 90's when the internet was young and innocent.

Netscape really did have the market in those days and Microsoft were not interested in browsers. As I understand it, MS didn't understand the direction internet browsing was going at the time and missed the boat. Early Windows did not ship with a browser in those days.

Until that is, they brought out their first version of IE, a buggy, slow and pretty useless browser that Netscape beat hands down.

But then MS included IE as a browser on all their Windows packages, and integrated it into Windows. This meant that new customers had a ready browser without having to search any further for a better one, and gradually, (or pretty soon in the late 90's), Netscape lost the market lead.

So, in effect, Netscape was the first "major" browser and IE just copied its capabilities.

Mark

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Your main point is well taken
Jul 7, 2005 10:20AM PDT

that IE is ''woven'' into the OS unlike other browsers and using the PC for just about anything was to have a similar look and feel to web browsing. Now actually, I am thinking Mosaic earlier than Netscape but there were no ''masses'' to use it back then. Also, Netscape was not free. I paid for my first copy to use under Windows 3.1. What fun that was as you also had to buy a ''socket'' program. I used Trumpet Winsock....more to purchase and a pain to configure. IE's ploy was that it was free so, even though it was rather pathetic, it grabbed attention from Netscape. Netscape became rather bloated and buggy itself after time and IE improved though neither was ideal. So maybe the ''back to basics'' approach that Mozilla seems to be taking with FF will benefit all of us for a time regardess of the outcome of the browser wars. For now I just want to be able to surf in peace and not worry about whether I have the best or not.Happy

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Yep I think you're right
Jul 7, 2005 7:59PM PDT

I seem to remember Mosaic, although I didn't start surfing on a PC until Win 95.

Mark