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I'm puzzled by the absence of commentary here on the death

by Ziks511 / August 20, 2010 10:35 AM PDT

of Pat Tillman. Then again, I did take a holiday from SE around 2007, so I may have missed something.

This issue has been percolating for 6 and a half years and there appears no clear end in sight. There is certainly no way to lay it at Obama's door as Fox has tried obliquely to do:
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/06/24/mcchrystal-pat-tillman-bar-lev/
by including Obama's name in the headline of this post for no apparent reason.

All I can hope for is a clear investigation of the issue, because so many questions remain. Why were his uniforms and belongings burned in Afghanistan, particularly his diary? Why was his death attributed to enemy action when everybody in the platoon knew that it was "friendly fire"? Why was that platoon removed so quickly from Afghanistan? And who knew what when? Certainly McChrystal knew within a couple of days, and ordered documents destroyed.

This seems to me to be an issue where both a liberal like me and conservatives who are concerned with honesty and probity in the military could find some common ground.

Rob

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I am puzzled too.
by Mike_Hanks / August 20, 2010 10:57 AM PDT

I just read the article and don't see in any way that FOX is "lay(ing) it at Obama's door."

Just like the other recent FOX post, some people just have a "thing" for FOX.

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May be the heading?
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / August 20, 2010 9:52 PM PDT
In reply to: I am puzzled too.

"Filmmaker Says McChrystal Part of Pat Tillman Cover Up, Surprised at His Obama Remarks"

I read that heading a few times, and still I don't quite understand the reference to Obama. The only other reference to Obama is;

"Reacting to McChrystal's forced resignation, Bar-Lev said he was shocked that McChrystal had made the remarks critical of the Obama administration that led to his resignation."

Neither gels with the substance of the article in my view, although using Obama in the headline ensures that SEO applies.

Mark

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Put a few more pieces together
by Mike_Hanks / August 20, 2010 10:06 PM PDT
In reply to: May be the heading?

The article is about a filmmaker about Pat Tillman's death/cover up which McChrystal may have been directly involved with, so mentioning the Obama comments is proper. As far as SEO, the story is on FOX which means that many,many,many extreme left wing websites are going to scrape the site for anything to criticize FOX about.

After reading the article, do you agree with the original poster that FOX was "lay(ing) it at Obama's door."?

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Makes sense...
by EdHannigan / August 23, 2010 6:41 AM PDT

but of course, the usual suspects will misinterpret it.

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The only thing "proper" would have been to say Obama fired
by Ziks511 / August 23, 2010 6:48 AM PDT

McChrystal for other reasons as the last sentence in the article. Obama is the least cogent part of the whole issue. The crux of the issue and the movie is the false statement of his cause of death, the destruction of his personal belongings and military equipment, and the cover up of the false story, including the destruction of files related to the cover-up.

But God forfend that Fox should leave any story unslanted. Funny how they all lean the same way, to the right.

Rob

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Perhaps the OP didn't actually read the article..
by EdHannigan / August 23, 2010 6:53 AM PDT

because clearly the filmmaker, Amir Bar-Lev (NOT FOX! NOT FOX! NOT FOX!) inserted Obama to make a point:

Reacting to McChrystal's forced resignation, Bar-Lev said he was shocked that McChrystal had made the remarks critical of the Obama administration that led to his resignation.

?I am quite frankly surprised," Bar-Lev told Pop Tarts. "In the Tillman case, he was much more strategic than he seems to have been in this Rolling Stone interview.?


But, of course....

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That is very likely
by Mike_Hanks / August 23, 2010 10:12 AM PDT

But also since the original poster has a "thing" for FOX, he would certainly claim bias if FOX reported "Water is wet".

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Sorry, but I read the original article repeatedly in order
by Ziks511 / August 26, 2010 7:12 PM PDT

to try to understand the inclusion of Obama in the Headline, and I just couldn't see a good reason for it except for Fox's bias against Obama and their habit of trying to tie everything negative to him. The later discussion of Tillman as a "conflicted individual" is a revolting smear of a guy who left millions of dollars behind in order to do what he thought was right. I'd have thought that sympathy here would go to Tillman, and not to the Military Machine. Given what we have found out about corruption in Afghanistan, not limited to the Kharzai family, I wonder if he knew too much.

I am not usually a conspiracy person, but there are endless unanswered questions in this case.

Rob

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Thank you for recognizing the absurd juxtaposition of Obama
by Ziks511 / August 23, 2010 6:35 AM PDT
In reply to: May be the heading?

with a story is all about an issue from 2004, Mark. The issue is that Fox chose to put Obama in the article at all, let alone in the Headline.

Rob

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I don't extract the same from the article that you seem to
by Steven Haninger / August 20, 2010 7:32 PM PDT

And it's just an article that's, perhaps, designed to pique ones imagination and not lay down much in the way of facts. As one who claims to be such a voracious reader, such comments could lead one to believe there's a comprehension problem here. McChrystal served in his capacity under two presidents. What seems to have come to light is that he had some issues with his commander in chief. He may well have had issues with both of them and that would probably be quite normal. The mistake was to not keep such issues to himself. About all we have learned is that military command personnel don't get full benefit of the first amendment.

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I'dagree with you Steve if the article were about McChrystal
by Ziks511 / August 26, 2010 1:27 AM PDT

or about Obama. It wasn't it was about a documentary about what has come to light about the death of Pat Tillman, and the lies and cover up and general unpleasantness emerging from the military in Afghanistan about this issue.

Why is Obama even drawn into the discussion if not to somehow attach this scandal to his Presidency when Rumsfeld and Cheney were the most likely receivers of the real story, and the news that the cover up was going ahead. I can't say they were involved because since so much paperwork is missing, there is no evidence. I just wonder why so much paperwork is missing, and whose a$$ is being covered. Clearly not McChrystal's.

Rob

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But it was more about McChrystal than you might think

Go back and read this from the article. It's about the alleged cover up but focuses primarily on the general.

"In his new documentary, ?The Tillman Story,? filmmaker Amir Bar-Lev explores these controversies and the roles numerous high-powered political and military figures played in falsely reporting how Tillman died and turning his killing into what his mother, Dannie Tillman, called a ?recruiting? tool for the U.S Army.

One of the high-powered figures highlighted in the film for his alleged deception is Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who was relieved of his military duties in Afghanistan on Wednesday.


(underline is mine)

Reacting to McChrystal's forced resignation, Bar-Lev said he was shocked that McChrystal had made the remarks critical of the Obama administration that led to his resignation.

?I am quite frankly surprised," Bar-Lev told Pop Tarts. "In the Tillman case, he was much more strategic than he seems to have been in this Rolling Stone interview.?"


In the underlined, it mentions the general as a high powered figure in his cover up story and simply refreshes our memory of who he is by recalling the recent news event of his firing. The article also, in a vague way, wants to juxtapose McChrystal's behavior during the two events.....those being the Tillman incident and his firing. Such might be done to build his case that McChrystal might not be the pure military professional one might expect...that he has character flaws. Such would be needed to suggest the man might not be consistent and truthful. He's building his case against the general by exploring his character.


While the article did start out by suggesting "high profile" players were involved in the cover up, the later mention of Obama does not place the president among those players. It's quite clear to me but perhaps some persons predisposed to finding false triggers might see differently.

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(NT) ... and 'the first casualty of war is truth.'
by drpruner / August 23, 2010 4:23 AM PDT
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Tillman was a conflicted individual
by James Denison / August 23, 2010 5:45 AM PDT

Did it ever occur to anyone any coverup was done to protect his name?

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to protect his name?
by JP Bill / August 23, 2010 5:59 AM PDT

to protect HIS name?

Yeah, OK

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who knows?
by James Denison / August 23, 2010 6:13 AM PDT
In reply to: to protect his name?

Not me. Not you.

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(NT) Then why float that trial balloon?
by JP Bill / August 23, 2010 6:22 AM PDT
In reply to: who knows?
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because the military...
by James Denison / August 23, 2010 8:26 AM PDT

...doesn't usually engage in such coverups unless it would be detrimental to the memory of the soldier. As you noted, we don't know everything yet and for the whole squad to stay quiet on it is also more odd than not.

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Do you know for sure
by JP Bill / August 23, 2010 6:24 AM PDT
In reply to: who knows?

that terrorists are going to be operating out of the "Ground Zero" Mosque?

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We didn't know...
by James Denison / August 23, 2010 8:27 AM PDT
In reply to: Do you know for sure

...missiles in Cuba were actually going to be used against the US, but we certainly didn't like the potential threat it posed.

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(NT) I'll take that as a "NO!"
by JP Bill / August 23, 2010 11:47 AM PDT
In reply to: We didn't know...
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(NT) take it any way you want it
by James Denison / August 23, 2010 2:46 PM PDT
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Re: thread
by Kees Bakker / August 23, 2010 8:31 PM PDT
In reply to: We didn't know...

Surely the (potential) thread of a group of people gathering in a building located 3 blocks away from ground zero is MUCH greater than if that same group of people would gather in a building further away.

That's a very good argument against building that cultural center on the location they propose for it. What location would you propose for a great enough security: 1 or 5 or 10 or 20 miles away?

Kees

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Did you mean THREAT?
by EdHannigan / August 23, 2010 9:03 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: thread

No one is concerned about anyone being a threat. That is a bogus red herring argument. It's about an inappropriate, in your face piece of insensitivity.

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I do believe...
by James Denison / August 23, 2010 10:30 PM PDT
In reply to: Did you mean THREAT?

...it could prove to be a future threat, a flash point, a button for Muslims to push when they wanted to, such as marches around Ground Zero area, with the "cultural center" nearby to refresh them and provide round the clock irritation and outrage to others who look on Ground Zero as sacrosanct in a way.

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The message I get from the building
by oldie and goody / August 24, 2010 3:14 AM PDT
In reply to: Did you mean THREAT?

is like planting a flag on territory won in war! In your face is the best description I have heard yet!

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Remember this story?
by EdHannigan / August 23, 2010 9:10 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: thread
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/04/15/world/pope-orders-nuns-out-of-auschwitz.html

WARSAW, April 14? In a last-minute letter apparently intended to defuse the controversy on the 50th anniversary of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, Pope John Paul II told Roman Catholic nuns today to move from their convent at the Auschwitz death camp.

The Pope's letter, made public by the Polish news agency here today, said the 14 Carmelite nuns must move to another convent within the diocese in the Auschwitz area or return to where they came from nine years ago.
...
Many Jews view the red brick convent just outside the barbed wire perimeter at Auschwitz, where some 1.5 million Jews perished, as an affront to Jewish sensibilities. The World Jewish Congress threatened earlier this year to boycott the ceremonies planned for Monday to mark the ghetto uprising unless the issue of the Carmelite nuns was resolved.


See a parallels?

By the way, I don't think this discussion belongs on this thread, which was about Pat Tillman's death in Afghanistan.
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you're defending
by James Denison / August 23, 2010 10:32 PM PDT
In reply to: Remember this story?

Zik's subject? That's a first.

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