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I have written at excessive length of my non-appreciation of

Nov 24, 2005 12:23AM PST

George W. Bush, because I care enormously what happens to the United States and also because I care what the rest of the world thinks when it sees him as its leader. Think of the contempt many of you have felt for Boris Yeltsin, or one or another of the various French and or Italian Prime Ministers.

I have been thinking for rather a long time about the contrast between George W. and his brother Jeb. Or the contrast between George W. and George H. W.. I think the difference is one of connectedness. Jeb projects the sense that he gets it, that he sees the person speaking to him and that he listens even if that sense is an illusion as it often is in politicians. George H.W. for all his patrician detachment also projected a sense that the United States was not some gigantic Tinkertoy for him to play with, but was an entity with a history to which he had the opportunity to contribute. Whether you liked his politics or not, he was a good caretaker of the legacy. I'm not anti-Bush, I'm anti George W.

George W. projects nothing except total self-involvement IMO. He gives me the sense that he grew up thinking he was entitled to anything he wanted, but cared for nothing. He still leaves me feeling that he has no feeling for, and cares not a bit for the 230 years of history that comprise the US, or the glorious experiment of inventing the beginnings of a truly democratic government out of almost nothing, and with no precedents. He has no attachment to the past or to the future. To him you can change anything because there is no consequence to him personally. People don't matter to him, but his own desires and feelings do. He can conceive an idea on a whim and put it into action regardless of the cost to the US financially, militarily or in terms of embarassment in the face of world opinion because he has no empathy for anyone. It's all just him, him, him, aided and abetted by people who are either just like him or whose position and self-interest is defined by manipulating and supporting him.

It's like watching the US governed by a socio-path determined to do away with checks and balances because they ruin his fun.


Discussion is locked

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Not a defense of G.W. or any president but
Nov 24, 2005 12:39AM PST

I have to wonder how many who seek the office do so with the notion that something is wrong and think they are the one who can correct it. I doubt many are of the notion that all is running well and the job looks ''cushy''. Just my thought. Happy turkey day to those north of the border.Happy

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Happy Thanksgiving ...
Nov 24, 2005 12:56PM PST

to those south of the border.

Canadian Thanksgiving was last month, coincidental to your Columbus Day.

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Bad timing.
Nov 24, 2005 12:39AM PST

Those of us who follow world public opinion are quite aware of how others see us. Unflattering opinions of our presidents and our government have been going on since this country won its Independence.

(This was re-iterated on a marvelous program on the History Channel last night. It had capsules on every president, including their failures and successes.)

However, today is a lousy time to post your opinion. As you well know, there will be objections to it. Personally, I am trying to prepare the family feast. (Gotta be careful to keep the bird away from other fixings.) While doing so, I like to think back to other Thanksgivings, and count my blessings.

Facing what replies will be forthcoming certainly puts a dent in that.

Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email

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Quite frankly, if I had the power today
Nov 24, 2005 1:12AM PST

I'd probably abuse it and lock the forum for 24 hours.

Fortunately I don't have that power.

Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving to ya'll, and all ya'll be careful, ya hear?

I'm off to work soon.


click here to email

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Roger, each person has the power
Nov 24, 2005 9:00AM PST

to shut the forum down as to him or her. What is this? You want the government to do it for them who want and do it to them who don't want?

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(NT) (NT) LOL! WHAT???
Nov 24, 2005 9:25AM PST
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(NT) (NT) Do you know what you're laughing at?
Nov 24, 2005 10:04AM PST
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Nov 24, 2005 10:11AM PST

No I don'tDevil As your post made absolutely NO sense at all! Wasn't the government Roger was referring to with the power to shut down SE it was Lee Koo that has the power! Had a laugh over the fact that you replied as if it was a political subject!

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Oh, dear, my humor is too subtle for this audience
Nov 24, 2005 11:54AM PST

The government, my dear lady, is the forum government. Roger wanted to wield power to shut the forum down for everybody. I was saying that any individual could shut the forum down for that individual by not opening the forum website. Then, and I guess this is where I made my mistake, I referred to whoever is in charge of the forum as "the government" since the word doesn't just mean the political government but includes any body or person in charge of an organization or body, or, in this case, the forum. It does carry with it a little double entendre, that is, one could consider my comment as one playing off of the Republican desire for less government. Boy, I'll never do that again!!

I guess I better go back to regular vaudeville. They laugh there even if they don't understand the joke.

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Most of your posts are
Nov 24, 2005 12:06PM PST

so mean and nasty that I never once took your reply for a "JOKE" Reminds me of someone I knew ages ago, once they were caught in a nasty remark it suddenly became a "JOKE" I guess I just shouldn't bother reading your posts as most of them never make much senseSad Bye now!

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First couple of sentences
Nov 24, 2005 12:46AM PST

No, ya don't. You care about being right....and your idea of right isn't the same as some of our idea of right. That's all.

The USA that other countries and factions who haven't liked us for a long time is still the same USA that we've always been. The fact is....they don't freaking like us because we represent what they perceive to be threat to their culture....and that's bull.

The fact that their women want to be more independent and not slaves to their men is something that bothers the hell out of them. The fact that we vote for our leaders bothers the hell out of them. The fact that we can and moan about our government publicly bothers the hell out of them. The fact that we don't torture, kill, maim, starve out, etc. our own people and publicly condemn the countries that do bothers the hell out of them. The fact that... FOR THE FIRST TIME.....WE have gone on the offensive and gone looking for the bad guys instead of waiting for them to come to us again bothers the hell out of them. The fact that we go to the aid of other countries instead of allowing the genocide to continue unabated bothers the hell out of them.

Other than the fact that we have a President you flat out don't like, what ELSE bothers the hell out of YOU? Cuz obviously, the guy ain't going anywhere and he ain't leaving Dodge just cuz you ain't happy, hon.


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Blah,Blah, Blah
Nov 24, 2005 12:51AM PST

Why don't right these same type of commentary about real bad guys, you know China, North Korea, Iran etc. I'm not a doctor, but you have see one to deal with your disturbing , irrational anger

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As for Rob's post......
Nov 24, 2005 12:53AM PST

I am not going to reply to his subject, So the Mods can all enjoy their Thanksgiving Happy Trying to be good todayDevil

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What say you about this...........
Nov 24, 2005 6:14AM PST
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Seems hypocritical to me
Nov 24, 2005 7:56AM PST

to criticize Rob for criticizing because he is doing so on Thanksgiving. If his post interferes with your Thanksgiving, you must have a pretty shallow Thanksgiving. People put up with all kinds of unintelligent, unmeanful, offensive crap on this forum without complaining, but let someone post his opinion about a national issue, and do so in a thoughtful and civilized way, whether you agree with it or not, on Thanksgiving, and some people get on their high horse. I'm reminded of the "not on Sunday, but it's okay during the week" crowd. Again, sounds hypocritical to me.

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And we knew where this would head
Nov 24, 2005 8:13AM PST

Angeline just verbalized it....and here you are, like clockwork.

Got anything to say about the topic at least?


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(NT) (NT) Christ, Toni, don't you ever get tired of that juvenile
Nov 24, 2005 8:54AM PST
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Don't YOU ever get tired of
Nov 24, 2005 9:00AM PST

belly-aching over EVERYTHING in this forum?

Christ, you weren't even the one who posted the topic thread, so what's it to you if you don't even plan to comment on the topic?

People are prone to patterns they just can't seem to shake....Ang and the rest of us mods saw this one coming from a mile away, and you proved her right. Aren't you just so proud?


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As Duckman said in one of his brilliant posts
Nov 24, 2005 10:33AM PST
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(NT) (NT) some one here and its not toni needs a time out
Nov 24, 2005 10:35AM PST
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And this relates to what?
Nov 24, 2005 10:35AM PST

Are you one of those types of people that just talk to be heard by yourself?

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Nov 24, 2005 8:23AM PST

robs the runaway american who constantly bashes his homeland.
dosnt matter which day so as a proud american we dont have to put up with his bs silently

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You're right. Rob probably doesn't understand Thanksgiving
Nov 24, 2005 8:43AM PST

very well, and I guess we shouldn't hold that against either him or you.

Be thankful if you live in a free nation. Wink

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You could be describing a lot of people who are self
Nov 24, 2005 8:39AM PST

absorbed and care only for themselves. People like Teddy Kennedy, John Kerry, George Ryan (former Rep. gov. of Illinois), or Bill Clinton. You have, however, totally missed the mark with President Bush. It could be because you see things from the press's perspective rather than from the normal American's perspective.

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It being posted on Thanksgiving
Nov 24, 2005 8:53AM PST

shouldn't really cause any outrage, just the fact of the repetitive "I hate George" mantra should do that. Get some new material and some help.

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I was watching CNN 2 this AM
Nov 24, 2005 9:24AM PST

I was watching a program with several Washington photographers giving presentations of pictures theyve taken.

I saw a tight of President Bush crying, after hearing some bad news. I got the idea he was very connected, and that he did 'get it'.

Most of the people in other countries are left wing, hate Bush for being conservative.