Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

General discussion

I have some questions about Windows Longhorn.

Apr 9, 2005 6:51AM PDT

I was reading another topic and someone said that its going to need like 8GB of RAM or something crazy like that... Is that true?

Also how much longer do you think Windows XP will be the standard OS? I remember I got a computer at the end of the windows 98 era and it was the most awful feeling after XP came out... I'm thinking about getting a new computer and I don't want it to be outdated right away (again).

How long do you think something like the Dell 9300 (I know this is notebook related) would be at least an average computer and be able to run the main streem games. (Assuming it had the 2.0 Pentium M and Nvidia 6800 go)

Discussion is locked

- Collapse -
1 year.
Apr 9, 2005 6:55AM PDT

The 64-bit wave is clearly in sight. Ignore it and don't complain in 2006 when your machine is submerged in the wave of 64-bit only games. Before you think longhorn is required for 64-bit, consider that on XP (32-bit) I'm running Virtual Dub and other 64-bit apps today, here and now. This is not a future event but here, now and happening. I paid no premium for the 64-bit capable machine.

Bob

- Collapse -
Ummm... ok.
Apr 9, 2005 8:54AM PDT

Yah Im sure there will be some 64-bit only apps and video games, but I seriously doubt the change is going to be as dramatic and as soon as you make it sound like it will be.

Not that many people have 64 bit processors. Heck, most new computers dont even have them. If you really think that within 1 year game developers are going to expect the majority of people to have 64-bit processors... then maybe you need to think harder.

- Collapse -
The same was written when 32-bit machines appeared.
Apr 9, 2005 8:58AM PDT

The changeover was numbing to 286 owners.

A recent 32 to 64 bit transition was SUN computers. The 20/80 population of machines went from 32 to 64 bits in 9 months. Almost any reply you can think of, was written by pundits and others that the change would take years to happen.

Given the rabid nature of gamers, the acceptance of 64-bit only games will be swift.

Bob

- Collapse -
Right...
Apr 9, 2005 11:00AM PDT

So you think the PC game industry is swiftly going to drop support of Windows XP for Windows XP 64? That just doesnt make any sense.

As long as software supports 64 bit, it will also support 32 bit. Considering the 64 OS will be able to run both 64 and 32 bit apps there is no reason for a game or program to be ONLY 64.

- Collapse -
The same was written about support for Windows 3.1
Apr 9, 2005 11:07AM PDT

I've been through the 8 to 16 to 32 and 64 bit changes. It's not funny to read what you are writing and recall that you are repeating past writings.

I bet you'll see a 64-bit only game in 2005. And you are right there will not be a "drop support." But this is not what I've been warning about.

My warning is to those that pick up the high end, latest and greatest 32-bit only machine for a premium. They will feel burnt as the months roll by. Or feel like a tsunami hit them as the 64-bit wave goes by.

Bob

- Collapse -
Well...
Apr 9, 2005 11:20AM PDT

I don't know if that was directed specificaly twards me, but that 9300 I want is far from high end.

I agree, it is stupid for someone to buy an expensive voodoo or alienware or any 32 bit based system right now. AMD 64's are not expensive, P4 need way too much power, and Intell is making new Pentium M 64 bit processor. Like I said, I totaly agree its not a good idea to get an expensive computer right now.

In my other replys I was not saying the top of the line will stay top of the line. I was saying 64 bit isnt going to be as nessesary as you seem to think it will be.

- Collapse -
I have a beautiful pamphlet I'd love you to see.
Apr 9, 2005 11:34AM PDT

AMD published a document years ago showing that the 286 architecture was all anyone needed and the 32-bit was not necessary. If you get outside the PC world, you'll find the SUN computers are now all 64-bit and it is needed.

And... believe it or not, as an embedded programmer I am always performing backflips and magic tricks to keep using 8, 16 and 32 bit CPUs. A 64 bit CPU would relieve the amount of magic backflipping I would have to code.

I know your view and all I ask is you watch the show over the next year PLUS!!!! keep a tight grip on that wallet.

-> Remember that I write from another viewpoint of:
a. I've been here and seen the show.
b. I'm at 64-bit.
c. I'm using 64-bit applications.
d. I'm about to turn on a 64-bit machine with a 64-bit MySQL server.
e. I'm looking at AMD's add-on to Visual Studio to move my app to 64-bit.

Necessary? Debatable. Is it going to be 64-bit? Yes.

Bob

- Collapse -
However...
Apr 9, 2005 11:48AM PDT

during the previous revolutions, there were not as much users of the computer as today so a change would've been more quickly estabished. In the market today, with the majority of pc users using 32-bit CPU's, i would expect some 64-bit applications and games to be released, but sales of these software, will in no way make a great profit for companies that just offer it in 64-bit, there will be no way for them to survive. So i expect them to have 2 versions, one for 32-bit and one for 64-bit, this is most logical based on an analysis of average consumers. It is without doubt that 64-bit is the future, but until a tume where 64-bit is more dominant, there will be support for 32-bit. So don't abandon ship just yet.
Roger

- Collapse -
"not as much users of the computer as today"... was written
Apr 9, 2005 11:51AM PDT

That exact line was written about all the 286 users.

Can you reveal how much of this history you've lived through?

Bob

- Collapse -
RE:
Apr 9, 2005 1:50PM PDT

The 286 architecture was used over 10 years ago. And during that time, 32-bit still took some time to sink in.
Roger

- Collapse -
64 bit machines
Apr 16, 2005 9:05AM PDT

Longhorn has many problems and I doubt if it will be out in 2006

- Collapse -
Look at support waning for ... gasp Windows 98.
Apr 9, 2005 11:14AM PDT

See http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/print_a920?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh

No support for Windows 98? I've heard that millions and millions still use this OS. This may not happen to the 32-bitters for years, but it does give you a recent period to compare with.

This is not an isolated device. Let's use another more well known device that has no Windows 98/ME support. The iPOD.

Someone has written there are more 98/ME users than Mac/2000/XP/2003 users yet here is a product that ignores that userbase. Result? An over 90% market share.

Bob

- Collapse -
It wont be as dramatic.
Apr 9, 2005 11:35AM PDT

XP 64 is essentially a more brawny windows XP. It doesn?t really make sense it will cause much loss of support for XP. Windows 98 doesn?t have much support anymore because XP is just simply better and is for more capable computers. We don?t really need a next generation of computers yet? they are powerful enough. 98 computers were getting too weak for the every day things we needed to do.

I seriously doubt this longhorn will be as successful as windows XP. If it needs the system resources that some people are saying it needs, then that pretty much confirms that it wont be.

- Collapse -
"We don?t really need a next generation..."
Apr 9, 2005 11:44AM PDT

You do know you are repeating the same words that were noted from 16 to 32 bits? And the same was noted from 32 to 64 bits for the SUN computers too.

And... for many people Windows 2000 would be just fine and if we push back a little, so would Windows 3.1

Bob

- Collapse -
Just a recap.
Apr 9, 2005 11:50AM PDT

Longhorn will not require 8GB of RAM. The full install may take that much disk space. But the OS, just like all versions of Microsoft OSes actually take a percentage point of their installed space.

The OS is not ... "Internet Explorer" or the applications.

In spite of many that will continue to use 32-bit OSes and machines, Intel has already begun winding down 32-bit only CPU production. The EM64T addition across the line is in full swing and you may not have a choice in the matter. Unless you just continue to use what you have.

I think that's a fine choice. My prior car lasted 14 years and then Mom eeeked out 4 more years.

-> Get as much mileage as you can from what you can. But make no mistake there is a 64-bit Tsunami approaching and help those around you from overexpending on 32-bit only platforms without considering the next years changes.

XP (in all forms) is now a very old OS. It's almost time for a changeout.

Bob

- Collapse -
64 bit apps
Apr 9, 2005 1:41PM PDT

Bob do you have a link or a list of specific programs that support or run 64 bit only? Any major retailer you goto has no 64 bit specific programs or software from what i can see. And sometimes customers think that you are blowing smoke up their you know what when you tell them about the 64 bit wave. A list or a few names of 64 bit applications would make my job easier. Thanks

- Collapse -
My new app is 64-bit only.
Apr 9, 2005 11:31PM PDT

It's too much trouble to do both.

Virtual Dub uses 64-bit if you have it (even on XP-32)
Some of the newer games are using 64-bit just like VDub.

What is your job?

Again, all that I'm warning about here is that you don't want to get wiped out by the next wave. History does repeat itself.

bob

- Collapse -
Bob
Apr 11, 2005 6:46AM PDT

I am in pc/laptop sales.

- Collapse -
Then listen to your customers.
Apr 11, 2005 7:28AM PDT

Most will be unaware of the impending 64-wave and as I noted it's clearly in sight. You don't have much to worry about.

Bob

- Collapse -
Longhorn and 64-bit
Apr 9, 2005 2:22PM PDT

A) most new computers support 64-bit

CPU's that are 64-bit:

AMD Athlon64
AMD Athlon64 FX
AMD Opteron

Intel Pentium 4 Sequence 6
Intel Pentium D (also dual core)
Intel Pentium 4 EE 3.43, 3.73, 840 (first Dual core CPU on the market (currently, unless some1 releases to market a dual core chip in the next month)
Intel Itanium2 (has been for YEARS, but it's not x86 compatable, it's IA-64, which means it needs a differnt type of software to do anything, not to mention the $1200 price tag, for the cheap one, so Itanium will never see desktop)


Longhorn is probably going to use:
4-8GB of RAM
1TB HDD (not fill, but it will be like using a 250GB HDD in XP (guessing, and no i'm not saying Longhorn is huge, i'm saying to keep things proportiante, and 1TB HDD is proportiante (-ish) to 8GB)
Dual Core CPU (cannot wait for Presler...65nm, dual core, fully native, not bolt together like Smithfeild...only down side - it's Intel)
High end GFX card (R520 class, or better, R520 would utterly smash Radeon X or GeForce 6800 (Even SLI) btw)


ALSO
Longhorn WILL be released May 2006, MS is VERY VERY firm on this
the word has "come down from up high" that Longhorn is going out in May
and it will

search google if you want info

BTW
rumors on the net indicate that Longhorn might have a monthly or yearly subscription fee
in which case, most of us will probably be using SuSE, Mandrake, RH, Linspire, FreeBSD or any of a number of *IX or BSD based distros, or Apple might make a BIG comeback (i could see the majority of users moving to Apple OS if Windows wanted a monthly fee, because Apple offers support (As they are a company for profit) while an OS like...FreeBSD, does not offer much support (as it's a freeware program)

if most users moved to Apple
I could see most software being devoloped fully for Apple

this is just something to keep in your mind
idk if MS will go so far as a subscription service
the majority of people i know (even complete computer novices) would switch away from Windows if they had to pay a monthly fee just to use their computer

i'd rather use Apple OS X and pay $4k for a dual G5, than use Windows and pay even as low as $10/mo for as long as I owned the PC (and I always am the END USER, i have to yet to give away or sell hardware (unless it's broken, at which point it's donated to BFI Disposal)

- Collapse -
longhorn
Apr 15, 2005 3:19AM PDT
- Collapse -
Gamers...
Apr 9, 2005 3:05PM PDT

fit into the "early-adoptor" consumer category. They want the best, fastest, smartest, coolest games possible...and they want them "yesterday". The gaming companies know this...and that's why they'll continue to "max out" hardware limits. (No genuine gamer would want a "dumbed-down" 32 bit version.) Also, since business in the modern world is all about "efficiency" and "being the best", the leading-edge business apps will make the switch to "64 bit" soon afterwards.

Yes, you will still be able to get through the next few years with older computers and/or operating systems--but you will not get to play the latest games, or run the latest business applications.

Bob Profitt is absolutely right--and time will confirm that. As for Ozos...well, he's what I'd call an "extreme" early adoptor. So, if you other muggles would care to join me, let's just take one big step back and give these two their just due! Wink

Sincerely, JDM

- Collapse -
You have plenty of time before longhorn comes out.
Apr 10, 2005 1:01AM PDT

Don't worry.

Microsoft has cut out large portions of operability in order to meet their projected release date (early 2006), and they just pushed back the release date to late 2006, early 2007.

We'll be lucky to see Linghorn before the end of the millenium. Microsoft's coders are the largest bunch of inept fools since the Win ME team, so you won't want to install Longhorn immediately after it ships anyway.

Take your time, and get comfortable with XP. It's your only option (unless you buy a Mac).

- Collapse -
The other options.
Apr 10, 2005 1:07AM PDT

SUN computers, Linux and ...

Stand still. My outlook and advice is simple. Don't buy it if you don't need it. I skipped the Pentium 2 and Pentium 3 upgrades and held out for a P4. Now with years on the P4, the Athlon 64 is here, now and getting great use both at home and office.

Bob

- Collapse -
NOT TRUE!
Apr 13, 2005 2:49PM PDT

currently Longhorn is out in May 2006
the removed it's special file partition table, and Avalon (which was it's new 3D GUI, it's supposed to be in one of it's 2 SP's (That are even on the release schedule)


also
i seriously doubt it would take Microsoft 1000 years to code an operating system
we will see MS collapse, and probably even every gov't on earth collapse before the end of the millenium...


Longhorn is slated for May 2k6
that is what MS is going for
they are forcing it out in May 2k6

ALSO
the reason for the wait is:
SP1 and SP2 for WinXP took time
Win Server 2k3 took time
MS has LOTS OF PROJECTS ALL THE TIME

Longhorn is in early Beta stages atm, Alpha builds are finishing up...

afaik Longhorn has been a project since like...2001, but it's basically only been worked on since around 2004...which would make sense


it takes time to make an entirely new OS
it's sperate from NT afaik, so it's not WindowsNT 6.0 (Windows 2000 is NT 5.0, XP is NT 5.1)

considering that MS doesn't use UNIX based OS to create their software, as their basically anti-everything
they have to start at square one (or close to it) so it takes time...


i wouldn't call them inept
i'd just say their bogged down

considering they have to constantly work to create patches for software, due to hackers and spyware exploits

and it's not their fault, they create an OS to run on a system, and it's mostly safe
there is always an exploit
it doesn't matter what the OS is, there is an exploit

and since Windows is the most widley used, it's exploited the most, as it does the most damage
if OS X were the most widly used, there would be more virii and spyware for it
if Linux was most widly used, there would be more than 35 viruses for it

- Collapse -
Okay - you're right - they may be forcing it out in May 2K6.
Jun 12, 2005 12:40AM PDT

To answer your comments:

- MS has been working on Longhorn LONG before 2001. I know this for a fact. Don't argue it. 2001 is just a press line.

- The partition table and Avalon are 2 major things that got cut - what about the FILE SYSTEM? that's a big cut. Without it, Longhorn is just XP with lipstick.

- Longhorn may be slated for May 2K6, but if - as you state it "they are forcing it out in May 2k6" - then it will be uninstallable because it will need to be sprayed for bugs and holes.

- Yes, Microsoft is anti-everything. Even the stuff that actually works.

- They are starting from scratch. That is true. This is the first major OS they have had to code themselves - not a technology they bought from a geek in 1982. This OS is going to be BAD NEWS!

- It is not their fault that they have to create patches for hacks and software exploits? Dude, Windows has been around for a decade in the world where PC security is an issue. If they don't get by now that they have to take these things into account when they build code, they never will get it. Their security hole are most definitely THEIR FAULT. Jesus!

That's like saying that someone broke into your house, and it's not your fault because you locked the doors, but you left the windows open. Of course they should have never broken in, but who's fault is it REALLY?

Bad people exist. Microsoft has known this for decades, and yet they still have to release numerous patches every month. Why? Not because they are victims, but because they build a shoddy OS, and it is becoming more and more obvious.

The thing that separates Microsoft's development team from others is their coding practices. Most OS configurations close everything down and, when an app or utility needs access to a system resource, it has to ask. Windows, on the other hand, contains this "implied trust" that all of its apps work properly and thusly do not have to ask to use these resources - disaster is the result.

Longhorn - after several patches and updates may (I stress MAY) be a worthy OS. I don't think it is likely, but it is possible. All I am saying is, with Microsoft's track record, why trust them? They have provided a platform that has caused to much grief to so many who do not deserve it!

Lock the windows, Microsoft!!!

---------------S

- Collapse -
forcing it out in May
Jun 15, 2005 3:17AM PDT

The official MS info is 4Q 2006.
You are correct about MS having to do it buy themselves this time.
IBM helped them get Windows 3.1 working.
NT and XP are baised on IBM OS2 1.2 kernel.

Interesting this how this group of amatures( per MS Steve B) has been able to get the thing called Linux going.

"Without it, Longhorn is just XP with lipstick." I like this line. The thing about lipstick is that it can get smeared easily and make a big mess. John

- Collapse -
about the memory
Apr 10, 2005 1:24AM PDT

longhorn will support up to 8 gig of ram, where as xp only supports up to 4 gig

- Collapse -
Windows Longhorn,SO WHAT!!
Apr 13, 2005 8:00AM PDT

HO-HUM, another "new" OS from MS. Keep in mind that WIN98
is still out there even though MS tried to kill it.
STOP worring about Longhorn and just enjoy your XP and get a PC that works good with it. Get a 64 bit processor and you can use the XP64bit version that will be out THIS year. John

- Collapse -
Dell is out to kill 98 too.
Apr 13, 2005 8:08AM PDT

Don't look at Apple either. Proof?

iPod + iTunes for Windows 98 users?

Many Dell printers have no 98 drivers...

Are you sure MS is the baddy here?

Bob