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I call this an act of war....

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(NT) An "Act Of War" by protestors?
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When the mob rules, yes.

surprisingly, even mobs can be guilty of things.

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How exactly do you declare war on a mob?

The Libyan government, such as it is, has condemned what happened. It's not at all analogous to Iran in 1979, where the "protesters" were acting with the full support and cooperation of the government and occupied the embassy, which should have been treated as an invasion of US soil.

Seems to me that our approach here should be to work with the new government to try to bring those responsible to justice, as opposed to.......I don't even know what.

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His corpse was dragged through the street like....
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The president will speak at 10:30 AM Eastern

I'm sure he and his advisers have been up all night working on a response. Let's see what he has to say.

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Hillary is speaking now

Basically saying we're going to work with the Libyan authorities and other unnamed parties to find the people responsible and bring them to justice. Also that the attack was likely an attempt to cause a US/Libya rift and it won't work. She also pointed out the fact that the attack took place on 9/11.

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Meanwhile, Romney needs to extract his foot from his mouth

He issued a statement condemning an "apology" issued by the embassy, which appears to express sympathy towards those who attacked it. Two problems:

1. The "apology" was issued before the attack occurred.

2. In his statement, Romney accused the Obama administration (not the embassy) of "apologizing for our values." If you've read about or seen the film that led to all this, you would know that the sentiments expressed in that film do not represent American values at all. It's a bigoted, hate-filled anti-Muslim film made by an Israeli extremist, who has probably just hurt his country's cause considerably.

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Josh, where can we find that movie...

Josh, where can we find that movie, so we can see what it says? It's a little hard to find. The web post of a trailer for it stirred up the trouble. But it's not easy to find the actual movie. One report I saw said that the name of the "Israeli extremist" responsible for it is a bogus name. Other details about its production and showing also appear to be false when an attempt is made to verify. Could the entire mess eventually turn out to be a response to a trailer for a movie that does not exist, done who knows where by who knows whom?

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earlier this evening

on one of the cable channels news, not even sure which, they were interviewing the guy who supposely made the film.

Some complained he had some responsibility for exciting the roit, of course he didn't agree. I'd have to hold those that committed the violence responsible.

Anyway, they were interviewing someone supposely the originator of the film when I got home late from work and turn the tv on. I was busy with the tv on in the background so I can't give more details.

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It was on YouTube

I don't know if it's still there. YouTube may have pulled it after what happened.

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It now turns out to be...
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(NT) As were the bodies of US servicemen in Somalia. Not War. R
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Well, can I ask for clarification without

incurring wrath?
"Click on "graphic image" to see what these animals did."


"The dogs need to be turned loose in no uncerttain terms!"

"Our" animals OK, then? And, if the "other side" had been doing just that?

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Hello dr!!..,of course you may ask for clarification,I don't

mind at all.

"Click on graphic image" refers to this picture of the Ambassador's body being dragged through the streets.I've also read that these mindless cockroaches also sodomized him before killing him.Google that point and you'll find tons of hits!!!!

My turn loose the dogs comment refers to "Shakespeare's Julius Ceasar": "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War."

IOW,take the handcuffs off of our young Warriors and redefine their rules of engagement."turn them loose to defend their country".These guys don't want to read Miranda rights to some moron they just captured,they want to kill them!!!!!!!

I am good friends with several young Marines who affectionately call me "sarge" because I held a rank of E3 47yrs might add they all hate the way BO has tried to appease these radical terrorists with his comments.

Trust me when I say,our modern warriors are not nice people.They are trained killers/ministers of death and they will f*ck up anybody who stands in their way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You would indeed be proud of the ethic these kids have towards their country!!!!!!!

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Tony, trust me when I say that

"our modern warriors are not nice people.They are trained killers/ministers of death and they will f*ck up anybody who stands in their way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and

"You would indeed be proud of the ethic these kids have towards their country!!!!!!!"
are never simultaneous thoughts in my mind.
'anyone's animals' are never OK with me.
Ps 7:14-16; Ps 11:5; James 1:20. I know the source isn't popular these days, but its counsel has stood up through countless of man's wars.

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That's like asking

how does one declare war on pirates.

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Not really

Pirates are organized, and present a clear adversary when they're on a boat scouting for victims.

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so do a mob coming over a wall.

In fact, you don't even have to line them up against the wall, just get'em as they're fall over it.

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Let's get back to my original question

Who, exactly, do you declare war on in this situation, being that the government of Libya has condemned the attack which now appears to have been carried out by a group affiliated with Al-Qaeda.

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the same way we did before with al Qaeda

"any country that harbors...."

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"Harbors" being the operative word, James

For the third time, the Libyan government has condemned the attack. That's not "harboring."

There are Al Qaeda operatives living in the US; should we bomb ourselves too?

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and Pakistan

had no idea Osama bin Ladin was there either. Still got that bridge there for sale?

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Are you perpetually thick? or is it something you save for

here??. Imagine if you will, a fortified Embassy with a Company of Marines on guard. That's more than ever are assigned to guard even the most at-risk embassy. Outside there are 50,000 or a 100,000 unarmed overwrought people. You shoot everyone coming over the wall until you're out of ammunition and they beat you to death with your own weapons, and continue into the Embassy and do the same to everyone else.

What you do is to call the National Government of whatever state you're in for protection from its own nationals. If they don't answer the call, you're screwed, but so is that country that failed to protect you. Most embassies will pull out, and sanctions from every country in the Free World would be applied immediately, because everybody else is equally vulnerable.

Now I do see the instability in Middle Eastern nations leading to a new 19th Century when few if any embassies were kept in lawless countries.

The bad news is that unlike in the Marine hymn, the weapons available to the US are not sufficient to defeat the fanatical hordes of Muslim extremists, even if they represent a minority of the Muslim population in general. The extremists are very well armed themselves and care nothing about dying.


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who should the Ambassador called?

His undertaker?

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I was talking about the Egyptian situation.The US Ambassador

to Libya was killed while visiting Benghazi, the Embassy is in Tripoli as in the Marine hymn.

Apparently the group who killed him has ties to Al Qaeda. But the point is the same. It's not an act of war when it's committed by private agents unconnected to a government and a country.

From now on, American Ambassadors will have to travel with a large retinue of the military of whatever Middle Eastern Country they are in, as well as their own security.

I note that President Morsi of Egypt has closed street access to the American Embassy so that protesters can't get close. That is a positive move, and just as in Sanaa in the Yemen, the US staff let the protesters wear themselves out because nobody was armed. If anyone showed up with a weapon, the Yemeni Army right around the corner was poised to intervene. I assume that the US Ambassador to Yemen called the President and said "We've got a riot on our hands." and the Yemeni President said, "We've got X number of troops right around the corner." and they both decided to let it wear itself out.

Anybody can be assassinated if not covered by enough security, and worse, RPG 7's are everywhere throughout the Middle East in the hands of fanatics.


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I call it a damn good reason to close.......

the aid checking accounts to all ME countries with even the slightest hint of internal violence. Pull our ambassadores and other interests out ASAP. While all are not guilty of murder and twisted-evil acts they all must suffer the consequences of those who are evil. If indeed there are more good/peace loving muslims than evil ones the peace loving will eventually rise and put down the evil factors especially after the money stops flowing into their pockets. Does that sound simplistic? It may be, but it's the same paychology as making the entire gym class do laps when only 2 misbehave. Eventually, the two trouble makers will either be turned in, or the rest of the class will take care of the trouble makers themselves.

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I tend to agree with you on this Lyle. Put massive pressure

on Middle Eastern countries who permit this sort of thing. I would exempt Libya for the moment because the government clearly didn't permit this horror. I would however begin to turn up the heat under Egypt which should have dispersed the crowd better, though they did defend the Embassy as best they could. Where necessary pull the embassies, cut off aid, freeze assets, create embargoes and say, "The tap won't run until you can guarantee the safety of innocent civilians from the actions of some of your people." That especially includes Pakistan which is the current nest from which most of the vipers get their recruits, funds, and their planning. It should probably include Saudi Arabia which is the largest source for funding for Al Qaeda. Until extremists are starved of money, they'll be a permanent threat.

That said, it is very hard to guarantee the safety of innocent civilians. I don't know if you remember the attacks on tourists in Egypt under iron-fisted Hosni Mubarak but they were serious, and they can crop up anywhere. The Abu Nidal organization attacked both the Rome and Vienna Airports and killed 19 people and injured 130 or so, some permanently. Those attacks were carried out by 8 people, 4 in each airport

The real solution is stable democratic government in an area which is totally unequipped for it. These are tribal societies rife with factions and age old enmities, people who believe only what their friends and tribe members tell them, not what they can see with their own eyes. These are people who call Westerners Franks, because that's who the Muslims fought in France at the Battle of Tours in 732 CE, which stopped the Muslim invasion of France. This distorted vision and cherishing of old enmities is a bit like FoxNews in fact, where all the news is interpreted and distorted to fit a pre-existing agenda or belief system.

What has been most distressing for those of us who remember good honest government in the US, is the slow slide to an almost tribal view of issues here, commencing after Goldwater's loss, and apparent with Nixon and Agnew and the Enemies List, and the rise of a large cadre of those who deny the relatively objective and neutral presentation of most conventional news sources, and insist instead that all conventional news is a liberal conspiracy filled with deliberate bias, and believe the twisted product of Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch are "fair and accurate".

Predictably the most persuasive account of this behaviour is an old ?BBC Television program called A Very British Coup, about the Conservative reaction to an old style Labour leader being elected. It includes a character based on Rupert Murdoch who dictates editorial policy to his tabloids, frequently from his plant surrounded bath. It also discusses the malign international influence of American Conservative Think Tanks. It dates back to the mid Eighties. It is persuasive because despite being fiction you can see more clearly how all the parts fit together as opposed to a written expose where you have to build all those connections in your head. It was incidentally written by a former member of the Conservative political apparatus in Britain who knew very well how the whole thing operated.


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Egypt's military

is very good at holding protestors at bay.....they weren't even around to protect the Embassy from these protestors, and more and more news stories are coming out with information that the protest was planned days in advance. The 'movie' was an excuse to have two (one in Egypt and one in Libya) planned attacks on 9-11...however, Libya's attack didn't even use the movie as an excuse.

As for the rest of your tirade against Conservatives and how the LSM is biased in favor of liberals.....I guess you've missed a few of the interviews (both on tv and on radio) that have been done with liberal journalists who readily agree that the news reporting being done on the LSM IS biased and reports in favor of the left leaning, including far left, liberals.

Did you see the 'open mike' collaborating being done among 'news media' as to how they would go after Romney for his comments about the attacks in Egypt and Libya? I guess not.......take your pick of any of these reports about that.......

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Hi Toni.

There's a problem with the database (or the software, or the server) at the moment. If you post you get an error message, but your post comes through nonetheless. And if I delete a duplicate (after the member posts again), I get an error message also, but the delete is done nonetheless.

Just press f5 (refresh) after posting and you'll see it's there.


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thanks, hon

I thought it was my link so changed it and it still wasn't working. I appreciate the heads up.

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