I am the 47% (and you probably are too)

I am the 47%. I don't consider myself a victim. I'm not looking for handouts or to be taken care of. Yes, I do believe non-elective health care should be a right and not a privilege. Same for food and shelter. This is, after all, America and not a third-world dictatorship.

That 47%, by the way, includes veterans, anyone enrolled in Medicare, and anyone collecting Social Security.

Mitt Romney has now openly stated what we all knew all along anyway, that he doesn't care about anyone but his rich donors. He's basically written off nearly half the country (he sure is good at writing things off, isn't he!). I will vote accordingly.

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(NT) I'm even worse than the 47%... I believe in science, too.^_^
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That's OK, I received about $12,000 in OAS (SS) and CPP

last year, and had to pay $300 in tax.

Google search Who pays taxes in America.

That nice Ezra Klein Wonk Blog from the Washington Post in 2011, indicates that individuals receiving 10,000 or less pay very little tax, but that those receiving between 10 and 20 thousand are on the hook for 20%. Gee why don't they use Mitt Romney's tax lawyer. 13.6% for 10 years according to his accountant, and 14.1 last year. Of course, we only have his accountant's word for it since the actual forms are still a deep dark secret. But would an accountant lie??? Heavens to bedsheets, No!!!! Look at Enron, or Lehman Brothers or Goldman Sachs or, or, or.


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U.S. Tax brackets...

In the U.S., $0 to $8500 puts you into the 10% bracket. Up to $34,500 moves you into the 15% bracket. That is after deductions. The standard personal deduction that all single filers make is $5,800. Did your amount include the personal standard deduction?
Once again, don't confuse salary income with investment income. The rate on dividends and such is 15% for everybody, from "rich" to "poor". Needless to say, if all your income is investment income, is taxed at the 15% rate, and yiy make a lot of deductions to charity, your effective rate is less than 15%. You don't need Romney's tax lawyer, or a lawyer at all to get the universal 15% rate on investments or deduction for money given to charity.

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(NT) Most on Medicare and/or SS have paid forward.
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(NT) But many of them are part of the 47% that don't pay taxes.
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I was responding to the comment Josh made

as to who was included. He said of these "everyone". That's not true. Many still do. But most of those who are receiving benefits such as are included in his government dependents list already paid a substantial sum toward those benefits. It was their money being returned to them and nothing that was free. That was my point.

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It's interesting to note....

......that 8 of the 10 states with the highest percentage of people who pay no income tax are "red" states that went with McCain in '08, and that 7 of the 10 states with the lowest percentages are "blue" states that went for Obama.

So on top of everything else it was, Romney's comment was just plain wrong.

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(NT) Mistake...the word used is "anyone"
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Just saw Mitt's mom talking about his Dad being on welfare..

... when he first came to this country.

Mitt's Dad was part of the 47%, entitlement riding masses, with victim mentalities who won't take responsibility for themselves.

LMAO... it's almost as if someone was making this up... except its not made up... it was his Mom... saying it on film.


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(NT) :)
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Do you mean...

Do you mean in 1912 when his family had to leave everything and in Mexico and flee to the U.S. for safety? A web bio says that The family subsisted with other Mormon refugees on government relief in El Paso, Texas, for a few months before moving to Los Angeles, California, where Gaskell Romney worked as a carpenter.
Is it far to compare a refugee family fleeing a violent revolution with nothing and using the 1912 version of Relief for a a few months to this era's person on welfare?

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J, according to every conservative in the US

There is no qualifying the reason of why someone is on welfare. People either take responsibility for themselves... or they are a leach upon society.

The only question I might have about this subject is... how bad does it suck to find out the republican presidential candidates father was dependent upon entitlement programs and still managed to not become the stereotype that all conservatives think everyone who is on welfare will become?

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Your title and first sentence

You've seen that poll or taken it yourself?

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I don't know whether every conservative feels that way....

......but Mitt Romney has said that HE does.

Everyone who gets any kind of government assistance, whether it's Medicare, VA benefits, Social Security, any of it, is unwilling to take any personal responsibility, expects the government to take care of his/her every want, considers him/herself to be a victim, and voted for Obama in '08.

He also said, "So my job is not to worry about those people, I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Not only did he insult veterans, seniors, the disabled and the working poor, he insulted a sizable portion of his own base, being that (despite what he appears to think) many of those who don't pay federal income taxes are Republicans who did NOT vote for Obama in '08.

At this point the only way Obama can lose is if someone finds footage of him marching around the White House in a German SS uniform.

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I guess I interpreted his candid statements differently

When listened to in context, he seemed to be speaking about the percentage of the population that he thought was up for grabs in respect to their vote. He even gave that number. To me, the "not to worry about" phrase referred his thinking that, at the polling place, these people were already lost to him and he saw no reason in fretting over it. I didn't take it any other way but I can easily see how, if said in some other venue, people could be offended. His mistake was in elaborating as to why he felt that way. In some way, I still think his words were worthy of being heard even if they were poison to his campaign. Too many of us probably have lost the motivation to try and make our own way in life. Romney isn't one of these and neither is the president.

While we shouldn't suppress the freedom to speak for fear of reprisal, we surely shouldn't discourage speaking what we believe to be true out of that same fear.

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He still described them....

.....as people unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives.

I guess we can give him a pass on not knowing that people receiving VA benefits are in that 47%, being that neither he nor any of his healthy, adult children have served.

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Remember also.....

......that this is a man who once tricked a blind teacher into walking into a closed door.

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Well...everything else is forgivable but that trick.

You sure hate the guy. You know, there are folks who aren't disappointed when their least favorite candidates slip. They relish in that even more than when their favorites hit a homer. It's a mean world so let's be careful out there Wink

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I don't know if "hate" is the right word

I do think he represents many of the things that are wrong with politics and the economy though. He is the 1% and he doesn't appear to have a clue about anyone who isn't.

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Steven, the guy has a history of "slips"

And to answer your question about did I read the poll that supports my supposition? I don't need a poll... all I need to do is watch the MSM otherwise known as Fox News. All I have to do is read every one of Toni's posts which mention the word "entitlement". All I have to do is watch republicans on the campaign trail. All I have to do is re-read the news coverage and commentary during and after Hurricane Katrina.

Are you trying to suggest that I shouldn't take these people at their word? That their collective and extensive comments that "people need to take responsibility for themselves rather than depend on the government for assistance" actually meant something else?

Come on Steven. You're one of the few people whose comments I have respect for, but this asking for a poll is just disingenuous.

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I believe it's common here to ask folks to validate

a claim they've made. Most often is by simply providing a link to some sort of evidence. Perhaps it was unfair of me to call you out because it would be impossible to prove any sort of sweeping generalization that implied there were no exceptions unless some headcount had been done.

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lol... would you take an SE search...

... that combines the search words "Toni" and "entitlements"?

How about a google search for "conservative + entitlement" ?

Of course, if you want to talk about sweeping generalizations then we should also address things like "generational welfare families" or "entitlement mentality" or many of the other cliches that are also linked to key word searches involving "conservative myths".

How about a discussion of the conservative movement to get rid of Social Security in favor of stock market investment? Yeah, that would have worked out well for the nation back in 08. Think about how getting rid of that entitlement program would have impacted todays election?(here is a link to an article that calls SS an entitlement program just to confirm that at least some conservatives call it that despite the fact we pay into it)

Do you want me to go on and keep citing the obvious before you will concede, or do you want me to keep jumping thru hoops at your bequest?

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Ok then since you implicated "all conservatives"

this means that, if Toni is the...shall we say like...the "Last of the Mohicans", you'd be right! Happy

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oh, and to correct my word usage before a grammar nazi does...

* behest

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Obama tricked blind people into

voting for him. He sounded white. Wink

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He is just as much white, as he is black

Probably not in your eyes... but in reality.

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I bet you thank God for your sight every day

Although I have to admit I rather enjoy the thought of you having to form opinions of people without being able to see what color their skin is.

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No he didn't.

You swallowed a load of Liberal published codswallop. He was pointing out that pushing lower taxes had no appeal to those who aren't paying any taxes to begin with. Everything else is just Liberal slop being handed out to the gullible to choke on.

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He was pointing out no such thing

You can try to spin it that way but I heard what he SAID.

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(NT) Well, Steven, it's reported that way on Fox.

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