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How to win more hearts and minds (NOT!)

by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / August 22, 2004 11:23 PM PDT
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Re: How to win more hearts and minds (NOT!)
by crowsfoot / August 23, 2004 3:23 AM PDT

Since the slogan: "Not One Square Inch" is so dear to the Israeli people, why oh why can't they seem to understand the Palestinians similar feelings? Is this in-your-face war to go on forever? The settlements are a BAD idea that should be rolled back. And bulldozing houses is not so much reparations as it is war profiteering. The sharpest, most effective tools the terrorists have are Israel's obviously casual collateral damages and the perception of profiting. Punish the criminals, not your potential friends.

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Re: How to win more hearts and minds (NOT!)
by Josh K / August 23, 2004 3:35 AM PDT

Let's keep in mind how the Arabs lost those square inches in the first place.

To put it in simple terms, if I am the leader of one country and you are the leader of another, and I invade your country because I want to destroy it and kill all your citizens, but you not only beat me back but manage to capture some of my territory in the process, I am in no position to complain.

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For the Isreali's to worry about...........
by Del McMullen / August 23, 2004 3:53 AM PDT

.....what the Arabs might think, is liken to the
USofA worrying about what many of the members of the
UN might think of the US.

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Re: For the Isreali's to worry - Not the Israelis, US!
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / August 23, 2004 2:13 PM PDT

Hi, Del.

You miss the point -- of course the Arabs hate the Israelis. But Bush is rapidly destroying any possibility of our continuing to act as an "honest broker" -- just another example of his ham-handed foreign policy.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re: How to win more hearts and minds (NOT!)
by crowsfoot / August 23, 2004 4:14 AM PDT

You're talking about the leaders and their actions. It's the people who are paying the price for the land grabbing policies. Terrorist food. Us and them mentality. Core is: us (both sides) want peace, them don't. History is most unhelpful here. Leaders twist history and the people pay.

You are off into the "asses stay whupped" thinking. They don't. There's just more and more anger.

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Re: How to win more hearts and minds (NOT!)
by Josh K / August 23, 2004 4:46 AM PDT

The leaders didn't invade; those armies were made up of willing fighters, and the Palestinian people supported those land-grabbing policies and still do. It's part of the Hamas "mission statement." If the Palestinians were serious about peace, they'd renounce Hamas and anyone else who supports the annhiliation of Israel and the slaughter of its people.

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Re: How to win more hearts and minds (NOT!)
by crowsfoot / August 23, 2004 5:33 AM PDT
"If the Palestinians were serious about peace, they'd renounce Hamas and anyone else who supports the annihilation of Israel and the slaughter of its people."

I agree. Let's not stifle or make small their voice with MORE unguided collateral indignities against the innocent. Terrorist food. If we want to end this, I say cut off the money. Let's stop (both sides) rewarding those with the most atrocious spin on history with power and money. Let's stop feeding the killing and the puffed-up "leaders".

"those armies were made up of willing fighters, and the Palestinian people supported those land-grabbing policies and still do."

Minds are malleable. That's my point. Us and them are what we are told they are.

I hope we're not going towards any ideas that the Israeli's are not right to defend themselves. I only question the settlements and bulldozing of houses. It sends the exact wrong message. Also, it'd be nice if there was a way to kill the terrorist leaders that didn't include rocket attacks from American built helicopters into crowds. Unguided retaliation bad! A new bottom-up way of thinking, that just plain cuts out the old leaders and thier grudges, not only makes sense, it's the only thing that does make sense. Us want peace! Them don't. Justification has ruled for too long.
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None of that is core, Josh.
by crowsfoot / August 23, 2004 7:09 AM PDT

Again with the history! I've heard "Alli Akbar" and "God Is Great" and history lessons on Sunday mornings for all my life and it's got us nowhere! Actually it's got us deeper and deeper into the crapper! ENOUGH with the blood of martyrs, on both sides!

What IS core is YOU.

You aren't responsible for past actions. All the injustices of the past, all the grudges that you're supposed to culturally feel, are NOT YOURS! YOU can't know ALL of what happened and all the circumstances. You can only know that the 'us and them' argument has influenced both sides in the past and that the voice of reason as to who exactly 'us' is and 'them' is has been over-ruled by hate and ambition and pride as a matter of course.

What IS core is the actions that YOU take or condone. Any time you let yourself be sucked into a mentality that you KNOW requires a human defined reference point which requires your side to have been all correct and the other all bad,,, watch out. Mind to your own soul. Such are grudges and feuds. Seeing the truth and the path is not really that tough. Assume that love is the way, and it IS the way. Assume hate... the same. Punish 'them' for the sins of their fathers and brothers, and you condemn your own soul and that of your children.

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Very well said, Bob. All your above posts .....
by RB2D2 / August 23, 2004 7:31 PM PDT

make a lot of good sense and show a darn good understanding of the situation. Helped clear a lot up for me.

Bob, would you consider activating your messenger so I can relay something to you?

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(NT) (NT) Thank you. Relay away. :-)
by crowsfoot / August 24, 2004 2:21 AM PDT
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