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Resolved Question

How to recover lost network connectivity

Oct 23, 2013 12:55PM PDT

I have an old WinXP system with a wireless connection to my LAN (such as it is) and to the internet via a wireless access point/router/DSL modem". All has been working for a few years until today. I was messing around trying to get connectivity to a network-attached-storage device. I was briefly successful, but after rebooting the XP can no longer communicate. It still sees a good wireless connection to the access point, but is no longer getting DHCP stuff from the router. Other devices - both wireless and ethernet-attached - are having no problems, so I'm sure I've messed something up on the XP. I need help diagnosing and fixing this.

I know I have not given nearly enough info for anyone to help me, but hopefully someone will be able to tell me what additional information is needed.

Discussion is locked

pokeefe0001 has chosen the best answer to their question. View answer

Best Answer

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lost connectivity
Oct 29, 2013 4:07PM PDT

I freely admit knowing almost nothing about your problem, but have you tried using a System Restore point to a date/time before you lost the connectivity?

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Success!
Oct 30, 2013 9:10AM PDT

Duh! Of course a System Restore worked! I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of it. (But then, nobody else responding to my question did, either. Blush )

In the mean time I've decided to retire this 10 year old PC, but having connectivity back will help me move stuff off of it.

Many thanks.

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Re: Success
Oct 30, 2013 1:57PM PDT

You are most welcome.

Don't feel bad about not thinking of System Restore; during my working career I learned the hard way it is often difficult to get back to basics.

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Just keep in mind
Oct 30, 2013 11:03PM PDT

Just keep in mind this is a temporary reprieve, nothing more, though how long the reprieve lasts is anyone's guess since AFAIK no one has ever figured out the root cause of Windows' screwing up network connections. You'd think if Microsoft had any clue they would have fixed it ages ago.

A wise person would spend this time developing some kind of contingency plan for when the system does finally break and even system restore won't resolve it. If it were me, that contingency plan would involve retiring the XP system since it will become an increasing security risk the longer it is connected to the Internet after Microsoft stops issuing security patches for it. So that plan might involve setting a small amount of money aside every week or month and using it to offset the costs of a replacement system when the XP system craps out again.

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Answer
For one device
Oct 23, 2013 1:06PM PDT

For one device on a LAN of a small handful of nodes, I'd just set a manual/static IP and forget about it. Just pick something like 192.168.1.250 so it's unlikely to ever bump into anything else. That "1" might be a 0 (zero) depending on your router's config, so adjust accordingly if necessary.

It really isn't worth beating your head against the wall trying to figure this out. Quite frankly, XP's networking stack is a mess and it really hasn't improved much with Vista onwards. Things break, and they break for seemingly no apparent reason. To date, I think the only reliable solution I've ever seen someone come up with is to just reinstall the entire OS. So set up a static IP, use that until it breaks, then you'll be left with no choice but to reinstall the OS so hopefully you'll have retired this aging XP box before that becomes an issue.

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Re: How to recover lost network connectivity
Oct 24, 2013 1:17AM PDT

I should have mentioned that I tried that yesterday. (Yes, subnet in my case, is 192.168.0.x as you suggested it might be.) I managed to set the static IP addr, but couldn't find where to specify the Connection-specific DNS Suffix or (I think) the default gateway. Even if I had connectivity I couldn't do DSN searches so I really was still dead in the water.

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DSN as in ODBC?
Oct 24, 2013 1:32AM PDT

"The collection of information used to connect your application to a particular ODBC database. The ODBC Driver Manager uses this information to create a connection to the database. A DSN can be stored in a file (a file DSN) or in the Windows Registry (a machine DSN)."

That's far beyond IP networking. Is there more to this story?
Bob

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If that is a TYPO and you meant DNS
Oct 24, 2013 1:39AM PDT

Did you try NSLOOKUP and sorry but where to set the DNS is widely documented so I'll skip writing where that is.

HOWEVER there is that issue with Norton and Kapersky that block the internet when they expire (to protect you?) But I call that thuggish behavior.
Bob

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Yes, typo - DNS
Oct 24, 2013 4:50AM PDT

I've set a static IP addr and subnet mask, set the default gateway, set the (hopefully correct) Connection-specific DNS Suffix, and set the DNS addr (which, according to an NSLOOKUP from another PC on my LAN is the same as the gateway addr). However, I could not even successfully ping that addr so NSLOOKUP obviously times out.. (And yes, my static IP addr and the router are on the same subnet.)

I have Kaspersky and turned off it's firewall to see if that would make a difference, but it did not.

I have a USB-connected wireless adapter, but Windows says it is connected to my access point (which is also my router) so I assume the adapter is working.

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Kap would need to be uninstalled to fix THAT issue.
Oct 24, 2013 4:57AM PDT

As to the DNS, why not try the old Google DNS of 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4?

-> And let's be clear here. Windows doesn't handle TWO network connections automagically. If you have a WiFi connection, you would never expect the NIC to function without a lot of discussion about what you were trying to do.
Bob

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A couple misunderstandings here
Oct 24, 2013 6:24AM PDT

I misread the comment about Kaspersky. It has not expired on the PC in question..

I don't have two active network connections on this PC - just a wireless connection to my wireless access point with has an internal ethernet-appearing connection to the the router (which contains a name server) which has an internal ethernet-appearing connection to the DSL modem. A DSN lookup from this PC will get nowhere if it can't get to the DNS in the router which will forward the lookup to a real DNS that my ISP connects me to. There's no way I can get to the Google DNS.

This LAN segment uses the private IP subnet 192.169.0.0 with subnet mask 255.255.255.0. The router (gateway) and DNS functions are at 192.168.0.1. 2 other devices - a PC, a laptop, a printer, and a networked drive - have no problem talking to each other on the LAN. The laptop and PC have no trouble accessing the internet through this configuration. And until yesterday, the WinXP PC that I'm grumbling about had to trouble accessing the internet and printer through this configuration.

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Which is why we often use another DNS.
Oct 24, 2013 10:12AM PDT

It appears we've hit an impasse. That is, I fear you'll have to let your support work on it since, and I could be wrong, you are not going to try the usual.
Bob

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In that case
Oct 24, 2013 9:51AM PDT

In that case, and given the other posts you've made, odds are you're looking at a corrupted TCP/IP stack and a reinstall of Windows to fix it. You can try other suggestions to fix it and maybe you'll even get lucky, but as I said before, every time I've run into issues like this or known someone else who has run into issues like this the only solution seems to be to reinstall the entire OS.

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Before I go that far.
Oct 24, 2013 10:13AM PDT

I always give google dns a shot along with NSLOOKUP testing then before I reinstall I'm off to google this...

"XP NETSH RESET."
Bob

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Multiple replies
Oct 24, 2013 12:35PM PDT

Re: Which is why we often use another DNS
"... I fear you'll have to let your support work on it ..."
This is a home computer and I'm the only "support" I've got. And so far I'm not doing to well. Confused

Re: In that case
"... every time I've run into issues like this or known someone else who has
run into issues like this the only solution seems to be to reinstall the
entire OS. ..."

Oh good. I wonder if I still have the install CD.

Re: Before I go that far.
"... I always give google dns a shot along with NSLOOKUP testing then before I reinstall..."
But as I said before, I can't get to any DNS. I can't even ping the gateway.

"XP NETSH RESET."
I tried that yesterday. It achieved nothing.

But there must be something I can try before reinstalling the OS, and I've got nothing to loose if reinstallation is the next step. There are only so many places TCP/IP stack info can reside: the registry, (likely), an executable (unlikely), a config flat-file somewhere (unlikely, but what do I know?).

Anyone have any idea what I should be looking for?

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Sadly no
Oct 24, 2013 1:49PM PDT

Sadly no, the TCP/IP stack is part of the networking subsystem which is a core part of the OS. My personal theory on why this kind of thing happens is that Microsoft appropriated the TCP/IP stack from BSD some time ago (completely legal and it's why there's a HOSTS file on Windows) and tried to kind of shoehorn it in. It used to be there were programs like Winsock Trumpet that handled this, but that hasn't been the case for a very long time. Anyway, Microsoft has been slowly modifying this code over time, possibly trying to incorporate updates made in FreeBSD over time as well, and ultimately you're trying to use a networking stack developed for a completely different OS architecture. Think of it sort of like the scene from the Apollo 13 movie where they have to figure out how to basically get a square peg into a round hole using random bits and bobs laying about. Except instead of a temporary emergency solution, it's been built upon and extended over the years.

I could be way off base, that's just my take based on what info I can glean from outside the Windows development process, but it would rather neatly explain a lot of the observable scenarios you find with Windows.

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Tell more about this PING THE GATEWAY
Oct 24, 2013 2:21PM PDT

That's not a DNS issue at all so let's REWIND to the beginning.

Did you try a Linux Live CD to see if the hardware is good?

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More multiple responses
Oct 25, 2013 2:53AM PDT

Re: Sadly no
"... the TCP/IP stack is part of the networking subsystem which is a core part of the OS ..."
Obviously. But I would doubt that status and config stuff is stored in the code - in the executables. And if the the code had gotten clobbered I would be getting execution failures, not just problems connecting.

Re: Tell more about this PING THE GATEWAY

I agree that this is not a DNS problem, and hopefully I haven't made it sound like it is.
So let's back up a bit.

I have a USB-connected wireless network adapter with Windows configuring and controlling the adapter. Windows reports a good wireless connection to my access point with good signal strength. But that is as far as I get with connectivity.

When I have the TCP/IP stack configured for DHCP, Windows reports that it is trying to acquire an IP addr, but the process times out. Windows reports I have limited or no connectivity, and IPCONFIG reports some private net IP addr that seems to be built into Windows. (At least I assume that's where the addr comes from. Maybe that is is part of the problem.) Doing an IPCONFIG Release resets it to 0.0.0.0 but Renew gets me right back where I was.

If I configure a static addr appropriate for my LAN - 192.168.0.nnn - Windows no longer says I have limited or no connectivity, but a ping to my router - 192.168.0.1 - times out. And if I can't get to the router I can't get anywhere.

I don't have any idea how USB-attached wireless adapter works, but I assume the stack interface of the driver looks just like the stack interface of a NIC driver. Since the wireless adapter successfully makes a wireless connection I assume the hardware is working.

I guess I could lug this PC (and accompanying peripherals) up to my router and try an ethernet connection, but that's a big hassle since they are on different floors.

I know nothing of "Linux Live". Is it likely to support the configuration and use of a USB-attached wireless adapter?

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Answer
OK, Not a DNS issue.
Oct 25, 2013 5:53AM PDT

"
When I have the TCP/IP stack configured for DHCP, Windows reports that it is trying to acquire an IP addr, but the process times out. Windows reports I have limited or no connectivity, and IPCONFIG reports some private net IP addr that seems to be built into Windows. (At least I assume that's where the addr comes from. Maybe that is is part of the problem.) Doing an IPCONFIG Release resets it to 0.0.0.0 but Renew gets me right back where I was.
"

This can be a blown OS or bad cable/card. To diagnose this I use my laptop on the cable connection first since I need to know if it's the network or the PC.

Sorry for all the above but it was unclear where the DNS issue was and it was not.

Once I get the laptop test done and I'm sure the network is good I boot the machine up with any of the nice free, no-install OSes and see if they can get on the network.
Bob