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General discussion

How to network all three floors of the small building!?

Jan 31, 2005 9:00AM PST

We have a small three-story building. My husband is a small-business owner. We have decided to network all three floors of this building. We still don't know how to network all three floors of the main office...

We are going to set up a small wired networks (LAN, Fast Ethernet) in each floor. There are 8 PCs and a printer on the first floor. There are 4 PCs and a printer on the second floor. There are 2 PCs and a printer on the top floor.


We still don't know how to network all three floors of this building...??? We are thinking of Power-line, Phone-line Networking, however they are still slower than Fast Ethernet, aren't they???

We don't mind for running cables across the floor between computer in the same room.
We have to hire a professional and install the Cat 5 cabling in the walls of the main office, and connect the cable to special RJ-45 wall boxes, haven't we...?

Today, I just read this article, http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7605_7-5136234-2.html?tag=dir
"Hide the cables wherever you can, such as in plastic tubing, under wall molding or carpeting, in a drop ceiling, inside conduits, or snaked through baseboard heating units. Putting them inside the walls is expensive, and it locks in a floor plan."

I don't know what to do any more... Please tell us the way to network all three floor of this small building, if you know the best! If somebody else here knows the price to install cables in a small building, please tell us approximately. Based on your information, we will budget again for hiring a professional.


Any assistance which you can give me would be gratefully appreciated.


Sincerely,

Discussion is locked

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Networking three vertically adjacent floors....
Jan 31, 2005 10:21AM PST

is not necessarily a difficult task if you can run a cable between the three floors. The construction of the building will determine what route the cable can take. Note that cabling within ducting requires a special cable known as plenum rated (in the States). Placing a multiported switch on each floor, a broadband modem (if being used) and a router will allow access to all your PCs. Wireless makes this easier if the speed hit on intranet file transfers does not matter.

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Thank you very much for your information, Michael!
Feb 1, 2005 3:41AM PST

I feel relieved very much...!

To tell the truth, I have ever taken computer network classes at a college ago... That's why I am asking you guys here about our building before we actually hire a cable installer.

Am I right or wrong...? Would you please check them together with me?


1. There 8 PCs and a printer on the first floor.

I connect 3 desktop computers, a printer to a switch.?@?@I connect this switch to a router.?@?@Then I plug a Wireless Access Point like Linksys (BEFW11S4) 802.11b Wireless Access Point for 5 laptop computers into a router.?@?@Finally I connect this router to ISP provided broadband modem, which let our LAN connect to Internet.

I will have several computers hooked together on a Fast Ethernet network and want to add a wireless hotspot to the mix.?@?@It will be nice to have laptop computers for 5 marketing personnel, I think.


2. There are 4 PCs on the second floor.

I connect a server, 4 PCs and a printer to a switch. Then I connect this switch to a router. And then I connect this router to a modem, which connect our LAN to Internet.


3. There are 2 PCs on the top floor

Simply, I connect 2 desktop computers and a printer to a switch. Then I connect this switch to a router, and then I connect this router to ISP provided broadband Modem which connect to Internet.

Please check this diagram ??
http://www.3com.com/solutions/en_US/small_business/scenarios/basic_wired.html

http://www.3com.com/other/pdfs/solutions/en_US/so_guide_sec1.pdf

http://www.3com.com/other/pdfs/solutions/en_US/so_guide_sec2.pdf


What do you think...?

I am looking forward to hearing from you!

Sincerely

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From your layout it appears....
Feb 1, 2005 8:28AM PST

you are cabling each of the floors above the first directly back to the router located on the first floor. This is unnecessary since the top floors switch can be uplinked from the second floor and the second floor uplinked from the first. The switch on the bottom floor then connects to the router providing Internet capabilities to all three switches/floors. A WAP can be added at any switch to provide wireless access.

I would use a "G" standard WAP and cards for faster intranet speeds. Just remember wireless security issues have to be addressed in this office environment.

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setup
Feb 2, 2005 3:41PM PST

get 3 switch each floor should have its own small switch and all u need is 2 run on cable form on switch 2another then plug the computer into the switch on each floor also get 3 printer switch (1 for each floors printer) and plug them into each switch 2. then plug the downstairs swith 2 ur router. dont go with anything other the cat5. u can add a wireless access point if u want.

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Possible solutions to your networking problem
Feb 2, 2005 7:55PM PST

You mentioned that you were considering wiring all three floors of this building, but was concerned about the cost of installation. There are countless ways to accomplish this and before just answering your question some things must be taken into consideration and that is what are you trying to accomplish by networking all of your computers. Are you just trying to share internet connection such as cable or DSL, or file and printer sharing as well? If you wish to share files and printers, how much traffic do you think you will generate? Are you sharing a few office documents back and forth or are you planning to move large amounts of data such as video files or video conferencing or running database applications and so on.
The easiest and probably the most cost effective way is to set up a wireless environment with range extenders placed on each floor of the building and any areas were the signal may drop. This would give you a clean wire free environment and would allow flexibility in your floor plan and can be carried out by yourself without hiring a cabling company to come in and do a custom installation. This would also allow you to add computers at anytime as your demand increases. This would require you to purchase a wireless router, a wireless NIC (Network Interface Card) for each computer and a wireless print server for each printer. The first thing a cabling installer will probably say is that wireless networks aren?t secure. If a wireless network is not setup correctly this is true. My father and I own a networking and cabling company and I know all too well what is said. If you decide to go wireless, be sure to setup WEP (Wireless Encryption Protocol) from your router?s configuration window, as well as Port settings. Port settings allow you to regulate traffic on any given port which makes the standard router a basic firewall. Ports are channels that internet traffic is transmitted in and out of your network. Some common ports are, Port 80 for web traffic, Port 110 for Incoming email or Port 25 for Outgoing email and so on.
Now wireless does have its drawbacks; some steel structured buildings might make going wireless unfeasible. Near airports, hospitals, power stations, radio stations or anywhere that might generate a lot of interference. Or if you plan on generating a lot of traffic or moving large data packets, wireless networks tend to suffer more than a hardwire network. If this is the case you can have a cabling company come in and run a line from each floor of the building to a central location. Have it terminated in a crossover configuration and put a network switch on each floor and run a line to each computer from there. You can also have a highbred network comprised of both hardwire and wireless which is what we?ve done at our own office or you can hire a company to come in and wire from each computer to a central location in the building, but as you said this would freeze your floor plan.
As far as sharing printers you can connect them to certain computers and turn on printer sharing. Now this would require those chosen computers to stay on in order to continue sharing. If the computer is shut down the printer will no longer be accessible until the computer is restarted. Or you can purchase either hardwire or wireless print servers (if you decide to go wireless) and connect the printers to them. This would share them on the network without requiring any computers to be left running.
As you can see there are several ways that you can setup a network and the ways can be endless, even on a budget. I hope this helps you in some way figure out how to setup a network that is best for you. If you have anymore questions you can send me an email at dracos80@charter.net and I?ll offer you any advise that I can.

Bobby

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Dracos80, Thank you so much for your advice!:)
Feb 3, 2005 1:52AM PST

Where are your father and you running a networking and cabling company?

My husband and his father runs a small family-run company in the manufacturing in Colorado.
Also my husband's brother runs a small plant in Ohio.
And my husband's sister and brother-in-law also runs a small plant in Texas.

Unfortunately, my husband does not know well about computers. Therefore I am writing to you all, now...

There are only 8 users in Ohio Local Office as well as Texas Local Office. Our Colorado office building has 3 small floors, 2 users on the top floor, 4 users on the second floor, and 8 users on the first floor.

So we want to network all three floors of the main office and have that building connected with the plants in Ohio and Texas.

Our friend told us that once 3 sites have wired LANs (Fast Ethernet) connected to the net we could setup a VPN (virtual private network) among them and it was very secured! And also he told us that installation of cables required only one day and a few hundred dollars. Unfortunately he is living far away from us though... Therefore we do not mind hiring a cabling company now.

We just trying to share intranet connection such as cable or DSL, and file and printer sharing as well among 3 sites. We are not planning to move large amounts of data such as video files or video conferencing. Perhaps, we would like to run database in our future. They would love to talk over the phone about their business.

I want 5 marketing guys to carry notebooks. I want have several computers hooked together on a Fast Ethernet network and want to add a wireless hotspot to the mix.?@

I have to start studying VPN from now on...

If you all can help us again, please post your idea here or write at guillusn02@hotmail.com (Andy)

Once again, I appreciate your time and assistance very much, Bobby! And thank you very much for you all!

Sincerely,
Naomi

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Possible solutions to your networking problem
Feb 5, 2005 5:40AM PST

I'm glad to know that I my letter was of some help to you. Our company is located in Victorville, CA which is in southern California. Your friend is correct in saying that a VPN is secure. If you plan to setup a VPN network to other offices you need to make sure that your internet provider has provided you with a few things.
1. You need to know and understand what your download and Upload speeds are. The average speeds for DSL are 1.5mbps down and 128kbps up. Your VPN network will suffer with this upload speed. If your DSL is a business account you can choose higher speeds such as 768kbps both ways or in some cases 1.5mbps both ways or higher.
2. Business accounts also usually gives you static IP addresses in which will make setting up VPN's that much easier.
3. IF you decide to setup a VPN between offices you should have a server at each location and connect servers and not each and every machine accross the VPN. The server would in store any shared files as well as Database software.
4. Make sure that your servers are connected by a hard line and not wireless.
Outside of that everything else will work out fine.

Good Luck
Bobby

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Thank you very much again, Bobby!!I
Feb 5, 2005 8:24AM PST

Dear Bobby:

Sadly, we will not be able to ask your company...

My friend also is living far away, Tokyo, Japan.
He still recommends me to contact with NSPs such like yipes http://www.yipes.com/, or Time Warner Telecom, which have own optical backbone network at the local and national levels, and can offer Gigabit Ethernet Service.?@?@I assume that we can afford these services (10 Mbps Down) easily and pay around $140 per month in Tokyo, Japan. However we are just trying to share internet connection such as DSL and files and printers. We have no plan to move large amounts of data such as video files or video conferencing or running database applications and so on at offices, as you know, Bobby! I do not think that I need fiber, what do you think...???

I am still looking for High-Speed Internet..., especially in Denver, CO.
I give up to use Comcast. Because it provides dynamically assigned IP address only!
I am thinking of DSL such like Qwest, Sprint, Earthlink and so on..., instead of cable.

If I can compromize 1.5Mbps down, I will be able to pick up one of them.


Sprint has http://www.sprint.com/business/products/products/dsl.... following plan.

1.5 Mbps/384 Kbps (Download/Upload) From $40 per month

3.0 Mbps/512 Kbps (Download/Upload)


I have not seen yet more than 512 Kbps Up... And also only Sprint provides us this down and up speed in my area. Yes these ISPs give us static IP addresses.

Please tell me if you know a better ISP, I will check it up!!!



Just now, I was said by another guy in another forum, "Why don't you just purchase a decent router with VPN support ?" "15 users is not many at all, the router i am using now, a home one, will supposedly support 20 or 30 remote users with out a problem, i only paid 75 uk pounds for it."

However I was thinking of using Windows machine as a VIP server... Please check this diagram-->http://www.atmarkit.co.jp/fwin2k/verification/vpn01/v...

Yes I would like to have a server at each location and connect servers and not each and every machine access the VPN. Yes, I am going to connect a server by a hard line and not wireless.


I will need 3 servers and put them on the first floor of a small building at the main office.

I am looking for a new entry-level model, which should be able to support more than 15 users in Fast Ethernet network, and costs around $2,500. So I am now thinking of these kinds of servers from DELL,


http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/glo...

File/Print Server (Windows Server 2000)
PowerEdge 1800(11-50 Users)
PowerEdge SC420(1-10 Users)

VPN Server (Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition)
PowerEdge 2800(11-50 Users)
PowerEdge SC1420(11-50 Users)

Domain Controller Server (Windows Server 2000)
PowerEdge 800(1-10 Users)


I am wondering whether Pentium4 or Xeon? processors is better for this VPN server. I think only one processor enough...

I am wondering whether 512MB or 1.0GB is better for this VPN server.

I just have configured PowerEdge SC1420 as RAID5. Instead of RAID5, should I better configure as RAID1 ...??? So I have selected Add-In SATA RAID Card, RAID 5, 3 SATA Hard Drives in the meantime... Or should I better use SCSI RAID Card...??? There will be 3 small LANs on the first( 8 users), second (4 users) and third floor (2 users) of this small building. Then I just selected CERC 6-Channel SATA RAID Controller and 3 Hard drives (40 GB 7.2K RPM Serial ATA Hard Drive) for RAID5.

Should I better to purchase Tape Backup Unit, Software, Media and Disaster Recovery Plan along with RAID??? I just selected 3 Year Premium Plan for Hardware Support Services though... Or is 1 Year Plan enough for these servers???

After configuration, PowerEdge SC1420 came to $2,919, for example...


Dear Bobby, please help me to configure our new servers if you knows the better way than mine!

Any assistance which you can give me would be gratefully appreciated!


Sincerely,

Naomi

guillusn02@hotmail.com Andy

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VPN Server
Feb 8, 2005 1:42PM PST

I am not familiar with internet providers in your area. 3.0 Mbps/512 Kbps (Download/Upload)will probably be fine for your application.
In the computer industry the bigger and faster a computer is, the better it is. But understand this certain applications don't require the biggest and the baddest computer to preform nicely. You can take a basic P4 computer with 512MB or 1.0GB RAM, a couple good GIGABIT NIC cards and a decent plateform (Windows 2000 Server or above)and VPN software would be more than adequate enouth to connect three offices together. You stated in the beginning that you were trying to do this on a budget. I don't know what your budget is or how good you are with your hands. If I were setting up this environment on a budget I would buy a good firewall with VPN technology built in such as a SonicWall firewall http://www.sonicwall.com/index.html
If I'm not running applications on my servers and their configured as File & Print Servers I would run 2.8 - 3.0 P4 or 2800 AMD Processor with a 1 GIG of Ram and a 64Bit PCI slot Motherboard. Then I would get a good 64Bit PCI RAID Card such as Promise or 3Ware. On my server I'm running a 3Ware Escalade 7506-8 Series ATA RAID Controller Card and 8 ATA(IDE)300GIG Hard drives which equals 2.4 Terabits of storage space, and its fast. My Processor is a P4 2.8 and 1GIG of Ram and it's configered as a RAID Level 5. The RAID Card has its own processor built on the board and when running I utilize about 3-5% of the motherboard's processor leaving about 95% for anything else I may decide to run. Granted Dells have the service warranties and if that is a service that you value or are unfamiliar with assembly then by all means get a Dell. I personally do my own building and I save quite a bit of money on my servers. As far as tape backups...ALWAYS backup your information whether on tapes, DVD-R's or CD-R's. The more valuable the information is to you the higher the RAID Level. Determine your exact needs of the server and get what is BEST for YOU...Not what is BEST advertised.

Good luck
Bobby