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General discussion

How to manage 2 AV

by volvogirl / May 16, 2010 10:03 AM PDT

My friend was trying to access his work computer from his home. His home computer is a Sony Vaio touchscreen desktop w/ Windows 7. His IT dept told him it didn't work with his ESET antivirus version and he needed to use something else like Microsoft Essentials. So I disabled ESET and installed MS Security Essentials for free. And that worked.

I know you are not suppose to have more than one AV running. But how should he manage it? When he starts the pc both start. Then he will have to manually disable the ESET. Should he completely uninstall the ESET that he bought? It is a good program. I don't know how often he wants to access the office. Maybe everytime he's on the computer.

How in Win7 should I go in and take it out of the startup. Then he can run it and update it manually and scan. Or should we stop the MS Security Essentials from starting and he should manually start it and disable ESET when he want to use his office pc?

And I've always been curious. How does a remote access work? If his office pc is off does it wake up when you access it from home? Are you actually accessing your physical work pc or just a backup on the company server? He works for Wells Fargo so it's a big outfit. Like he actually sees his work desktop. So if he rearranges the desktop icons then when he goes to work will they be rearranged?

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ESET Is Causing The Problem
by Grif Thomas Forum moderator / May 17, 2010 4:01 AM PDT
In reply to: How to manage 2 AV

...primarily because of its settings or possibly the firewall that's installed with it.. I'll guess, that with a little effor, the settings could be adjusted to work correctly with the remote connection.

But, if that's not going to work for you, the best option would be to uninstall ESET and use what the office advises. It's simply not a good idea to have two such programs on the computer at the same time. Security Essentials should get the job done and still allow the connection to occur. And if the user wants to use ESET to get a "second opinion", then ESET has an online scanner that can be used occasionally.

Remote access generally requires both computers to be on and is exactly that.. Access to a physical machine in a different location. The correct IP address of the remote machine must be known and appropriate permissions given, but remote access programs make it possible to actually work on the computer which is somewhere else. You're looking at the desktop of a computer far away. You can sit at the remote machine and watch someone else use the mouse, open files, rearrange icons, etc.

Hope this helps.

Grif

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re Remote
by volvogirl / May 17, 2010 4:15 AM PDT

Oh, I know that. I've had Dell check my computer that way. But was curious when he logs into his work computer from home. When he enters his ip, does it actually turn on his work computer? So if someone was looking at his office computer they would see it doing the stuff he was entering?

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I Think I Answered Both Those Questions..
by Grif Thomas Forum moderator / May 17, 2010 4:32 AM PDT
In reply to: re Remote

The remote computer normally must be turned ON. You can't login to the remote computer unless it's ON.. Yes, there are special circumstances where remote "Wake ON LAN" options are available,,,,, where sending a special identifier "magic packet", plus using a static IP setup will start the remote machine but that's not normally the case for the use you mention, especially where office networks are concerned.. Most office network administrators don't want some hacker to chance upon an IP address that they could open. But it's possible, either way.

And yes, if someone were watching the office computer, depending on the RA software being used, they would see all the stuff he was doing.

Hope this helps.

Grif

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Uninstaller for ESET Security Products
by Bugbatter / May 17, 2010 5:33 AM PDT

From ESET:

Important! Do not attempt to uninstall your ESET security product using the Windows Add or Remove Programs utility from the Control Panel.

Warning: Using the ESET Uninstaller may reset your Windows network settings.

Note the info on how to uninstall on Win 7 here:
http://kb.eset.com/esetkb/index?page=content&id=SOLN2289

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Then is he accessing a server backup?
by volvogirl / May 17, 2010 6:04 AM PDT

Well if his computer isn't ON would he just be accessing a backup on the company server? He said they backup everyday. I wonder if they backup his whole computer (like the desktop layout, icons, etc.)?

So I hear advertisments for GOTOMYPC.com. Then you have to leave your computer on to use it? Pretty sure this will be my last question on this.

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Direct Connect.. Not To A Server Backup
by Grif Thomas Forum moderator / May 17, 2010 8:44 AM PDT

If his computer isn't on when the logon takes place, (you need to be sure to know about this one), then they have it set to Wake on LAN. In such cases, then computer then wakes up and the remote session takes place.

Any backup images on a server are mirrored and can't be edited by a remote connection.. All work on a remote computer is done directly to the computer itself.


Hope this helps.

Grif

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As To GoToMyPC, PCAnywhere, Etc..
by Grif Thomas Forum moderator / May 17, 2010 8:47 AM PDT

...As I already explained, most often, the computer is left ON for such work. Either that, or a co-worker starts the computer when needed.

Hope this helps.

Grif

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Remote logging process
by navneetgaur / May 21, 2010 7:38 PM PDT
In reply to: How to manage 2 AV

Hi.

Allow me to explain.

1. There are two computers at two locations.

2. Both of them should be turned on - otherwise it would be like trying to view a desktop of a switched off computer, which is not possible.

3. Both computers, when connected to the internet ( or any other usable network for that matter ) will have one or more IP address' assigned to their network interfaces. This is the actual number that is used to identify and connect them to each other.

( 4. Please ignore this point as it is for later reference, if required - slight complication - if a network uses a shared connection to the internet then that connections IP is the identifiable connecting point. However let us ignore this for the moment to understand the basics of the operation. )

5. Both the computers will run same application at both ends. That application would transmit one computers desktop image to second computer, and transmit keyboard and mouse clicks from second computer to first computer.

6. In windows that default application is "Remote desktop connection" also known as "Terminal services", in linux it can be "VNC - Virtual Network Computing". VNC can be used with Windows too. The only requirement is same application should be installed at both ends.

7. This application is assigned a default number to identify it. For "Remote desktop connection" the number is - 3389. For VNC the number is 5900.

8. The process - Computer 2 (C2) connecting to Computer 1 (C1).

Info about C2 - Ip = 1.1.1.2, Application number = random.
Info about C1 - Ip = 1.1.1.1, Application number = 3389.

C2 sends this on the internet:

I want to connect to - 1.1.1.1
Application I want to connect to once I find C1 - 3389
Please send the reply to 'my random application number' - 5564

C1, on receiving the above request, authenticates with previously configured methods and sends the response as:

Here is my applications reply - My Desktop - to - 1.1.1.2
Application that the reply is meant for - 5564.

9. Usually network firewall software's block the application numbers that may be used to compromise the security of a system. In this case 3389 and 5900. Alternatively they may allow some known numbers and block the rest. These numbers are known as port numbers.

10. So Eset is blocking port number 3389, if you are using Remote desktop connection. You should be able to unblock it from Eset's settings.

11. Regarding rest of the questions:

a. Ordinarily the work computer needs to be switched on at all times.

Extraordinarily - it could wake up when it detects an incoming pulse. It could also be a 'complete operating system with everything' image on another computer that is switched on. Please pay attention to the word 'extraordinarily', because it is just that, extraordinary. Possible but not implemented as numerous factors make it complicated for the kind of scenario you have mentioned.

'Complete operating system with everything' image procedure is also known as virtualization. However it is used for servers as it allows for convenient and flexible hardware migration options. It allows the operating systems to be shifted from one hardware platform to another easily.

b. Backup - in these circumstances it implies that the company usable data on the computer is backed up. That would be normal documents.

c. When your friend logs in his work computer with the name, let's say - fred, from home, he is actually viewing the desktop of user 'fred' on work computer. Any changes to 'fred's' desktop will be saved on work computer and applied whenever 'fred' logs on - at work or views it remotely. The process that you need to understand is that your friend is only viewing the display of desktop remotely. However the desktop is still being generated on the office computer.

I hope I was able to help even though I do realize that my reply has been more elaborate than some people may tolerate.

Take care.

PS:
There is one more possibility, a computer set up as a 'terminal server'. If you are interested, let me know and I will explain that too.

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Remote logging process - II
by navneetgaur / May 21, 2010 7:49 PM PDT
In reply to: Remote logging process

Hi.

I just needed to clarify one point.

1. Since Eset is on your home computer, it should be allowed to let port number 3389 establish "outgoing" connection as you are sending the request from your computer to to office computers port 3389.

2. It should also be allowed to permit inbound connections from your office IP address.

Take care.

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If...
by 3rdalbum / May 22, 2010 9:17 PM PDT
In reply to: How to manage 2 AV

If your "security" software stops you from being able to do your work, then the software is useless.

The same goes for any security software that slows down your computer to intolerable levels. Security Essentials doesn't seem to have much of a performance penalty from what I can tell.

I'd go so far as to say that, if you're a reasonably intelligent person with some common web-surfing sense, you don't need an anti-virus program.

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How to manage 2 AV
by wmello / May 23, 2010 11:45 PM PDT
In reply to: How to manage 2 AV

You can connect via remote desktop to a computer using ESET if you do the following. Change ESET settings on your laptop to Learn Mode. You will need someone to monitor your laptop when you are ready to access it from home. A message from ESET will pop up, telling the person who is monitoring your laptop, that someone is trying to access it. Choose allow, and you'll be able to access the laptop remotely. The next time that you are in front of your laptop, reset ESET's security settings back to it's original settings and you will be able to access it from here forward without assistance.

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Start Up; Remote Access
by joerog55 / May 28, 2010 12:04 PM PDT
In reply to: How to manage 2 AV

To disable programs on STARTUP, in XP, you would type 'MSCONFIG' in the 'run' menu and it would give you the whole configuration menu, you select the 'startup' tab and then verify what programs or processes are checked off to run on start up, and simply uncheck the program(s) you do not want to run on start up, reboot when prompted and that usually is all you need to do. I don't have W7 yet, but it would seem you could do some simple Internet searches to learn the process for that OS, which should not be that much different.

To answer you remote access questions, I rely on my experiences before I retired. My company used 'GoToMyPC' for a while then stopped because it was 1) very expensive and 2) not as secure as we would have liked. It worked by installing 'GoToMyPC' software on the PCs involved, setting them up with passwords, and then accessing through the 'GoToMyPC' portal. It worked pretty good, but as I said, it was expensive and not secure enough (for my financial institution) so we went to remote access through our server. Yes, the PC being accessed has to be 'ON'. You logged into the server from wherever you were, then logged into the PC as if you were at your desk. A few times I had to call my office and ask someone to turn on or reboot my PC because I couldn't log in to it. Yes, you are actually accessing the PC through the server (unless it is a virtual PC, in which case you are accessing the server to the virtual PC on it). In both cases, if you rearrange your icons, they stay rearranged. You are actually seeing your desktop as it is and accessing the files stored on your hard drive on the PC (or the virtual drive in the server), doing your e-mail, etc. just as if you were at your desk at work. However, depending on the quality and type connection from where you are working, the speed at which you are working can be maddeningly slow. Hope my rambling made some sense. -JR

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