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How the truth catches up on traitors

Paul Galanti served as Virginia co-chairman for fellow former POW Sen. John McCain's 2000 presidential bid. He also supported Democratic Gov. Mark Warner's (Va.) campaign in 2001. As a POW in the Hanoi Hilton prison camp, he, like Warner, was tormented with words Kerry had spoken back home in the United States.

Galanti says Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony was one of the many English-language radio broadcasts his captors played for him and other POWs to demoralize them and encourage them to admit to war crimes.

"They made a big deal about this guy who was a naval officer, talking about all these atrocities and war crimes," said Galanti. "They'd been for years saying, 'You're not prisoners of war, you're war criminals. You're never going home, we're going to try you after the war and you'll all be found guilty of war crimes.'"

Galanti realized only recently that it was Kerry's voice the Communists had used to torment him, when he saw a documentary on the anti-war movement and heard Kerry's unmistakable pronunciation of the words "Genghis Khan." Kerry pronounced it "Jenjis" in his testimony when, among other atrocities, he reported tales that U.S. troops had "razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan."

"Right away, I said, hey, wait a minute, that's the guy I heard in Hanoi," said Galanti.

"I couldn't believe a naval officer would do that--you're supposed to get court-martialed for stuff like that," he went on. "I really violently object to him suddenly turning into Rambo and spending almost his entire acceptance speech at the Democratic convention with this huge war-hero routine."

Galanti, Warner and others have joined forces with the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth to run television ads on Kerry's Vietnam service (which many of Kerry's fellow Swiftees say Kerry has lied about) and on Kerry's anti-war activities upon his return to the United States. A new round of television ads by the group features Galanti and former POW Ken Cordier.

Tom Collins, a decorated Air Force captain whose plane was shot down in 1965, says he was also made to listen to an audiotape of Kerry's testimony by his North Vietnamese captors. He explained that the North Vietnamese were constantly trying to elicit confessions of war crimes from Americans.

"What they wanted to do was get us to make statements that they could use for propaganda, no matter what it took to get it" he said. "They would torture us, some were even killed for it. . . . For over seven years, their goal was to get propaganda out of me. And then I see somebody like John Kerry and the Vietnam Veterans [Against the War] giving them the same propaganda they want me to give them, free of charge, on American television."

"I wasn't necessarily disappointed in Jane Fonda," said Collins. "I didn't know her background, but I figured she's just some airhead Hollywood actress--so what? But then along comes this military officer. My first reaction was, this is a fake. But it wasn't a fake. This guy is a traitor. I'm very disappointed in that. . . . I expected more out of a Navy lieutenant. That's why I was so demoralized. It was far worse for him to do it."

Collins said he was also shown other VVAW propaganda, including a picture of a famous April 1971 event in Washington, in which the group's members threw what they said were their military medals over the fence. (Kerry participated in that event, and claimed in an interview at the time that he had thrown away his own medals, although it was revealed later that he had thrown someone else's medals.)

"He knew he was putting us at risk," said Warner. "And he was demanding unilateral withdrawal, which means our value as bargaining chips would be gone. And what do you think would have happened to us then?"

Galanti agreed. "I have no doubt if we had done what Kerry was advocating, we'd still be over there," he said. But for the presence of American forces in Vietnam, he said, "there was absolutely no reason to turn us back. . . . The only reason they let us go was because they got the living daylights bombed out of them by B-52s over the Christmas bombings in '72. . . . We were home 60 days later," he said.

More

It wasn't what Kerry did whilst on active service that has caused the problems, but it's obviously what he had to say when he returned from Vietnam

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propoganda

In reply to: How the truth catches up on traitors

Speaking out against Vietnam in america does not make one a traitor. That is the very foundation of america. the freedom to say and do what you believe in.

Kerry served his country, maybe not upto the standards that others would or should have but he was there.

To have lived through and then speak out against is no0thing to be ashamed of, there were a lot of Americans that were against that "war."

If I may quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

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If you read what the former pow's had to say

In reply to: propoganda

He sounded every bit a traitor.
Since when has demoralizing the troups been the 'American way' ?

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(NT) (NT) if it looks and quacks and looks like a duck its a duck

In reply to: If you read what the former pow's had to say

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(NT) (NT) I think he looks more like 'lurch' myself Mark :)

In reply to: (NT) if it looks and quacks and looks like a duck its a duck

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The American way is

In reply to: If you read what the former pow's had to say

the freedom to speak your mind.

I'm neither a Liberal nor a Democrat but I believe Kerry is getting rooked here.

Vietnam was a very different time and situation than what has happened before or since.

As I said he was there and served or performed his duty, to the liking of some and the disdain of others BUT he was there.

Upon his return he felt that the action was wrong it was his prerogative to speak as he did. It's my understanding that he spoke here in the Untited States not in North Vietnam.

Sorry got interrupted right in the middle of this and my train of thought was derailed.

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the freedom to speak your mind

In reply to: The American way is

We have that very same freedom here in the U.K, but in a time of war we would have the decency not to say things which can be used by the enemy against our troops.

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********

In reply to: the freedom to speak your mind

during Vietnam half our country was speaking out against it. Kerry's voices seems to be louder now that he's running for President.

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Sure, half of those who were liable to be drafted

In reply to: bullshit

protested. I'll bet most are now enjoying a comfortable life without ever having sacrificed for their country.

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You're right

In reply to: Sure, half of those who were liable to be drafted

yet Kerry went and then spoke out against the conflict.

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He may have gone, Rick...

In reply to: You're right

Rick, he may have gone, but he engineered a "bailout" to a safe stateside assignment after only 4 months, leaving his men in harm's way.
In my opinion, not proper conduct for an officer. It's time for him to release ALL of his records and finally fully own up to ALL of the details of what he did.

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(NT) (NT) So it's better to bail out earlier and protect Alabama

In reply to: He may have gone, Rick...

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A pity he wasn't on the ground in Vietnam

In reply to: You're right

Dodging all the booby traps and ducking the bullets, then perhaps he wouldn't have sounded off the way he did back home.

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If you want to troops' opinion, I don't think you'll find

In reply to: You're right

very many who opposed the war. Kerry is not half the country.

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Re: the freedom to speak your mind

In reply to: the freedom to speak your mind

Hi, Steve.

>>in a time of war we would have the decency not to say things which can be used by the enemy against our troops.<<
But what if Britain were to invade France through the Chunnel? Would all Britons who objected to that obvious breach of international law be traitors? That's the issue at the heart of the VietNam controvers -- that many of us believe the US was engaged in an immoral war by immoral means (quite different, btw, than the issue of the Iraq War for all but those on the very far left, or who are complete pacifists).

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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That argument goes in all directions Dave

In reply to: Re: the freedom to speak your mind

Would it have been moral to allow North Vietnam to crush the people of South Vietnam?
A difficult question for some people, but not for Kerry who jumps off the fence in all directions at once.

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If you want to jumpon Kerry fro flip-flopping, fine

In reply to: That argument goes in all directions Dave

but to attack him for speaking his heart and mind, giving him the benefit of the douebt is wrong.

I may not agree with what you say but i will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Your quote

In reply to: If you want to jumpon Kerry fro flip-flopping, fine

>>>>I may not agree with what you say but i will defend to the death your right to say it.>>>>

Considering that he left men behind defending to the death Kerry's right to call them killers and war criminals, I figure they have the right now to speak up and call him a liar.

Perhaps he would have had a better shot at having the right to say the things he said if he had gotten the statements right and said the same things over the years instead of restating them differently depending on what his personal agenda was at any given point in history.

TONI

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excellent point but

In reply to: Your quote

I believe out country gives us the "right" to say whatever you want regardless of why or where.

AND the are equally qualified to call him a liar.

This entire thread has turned into a much better discourse than ever thought.

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"...Defend to Death..." Yea, but of

In reply to: excellent point but

Course' we need to clarify for some about being sued for slander, def of character, lying, copyright/trademark verbal violations(whatever they call that) threats, court orders, traitor talk, overthrow govt talk, aid to the enemy, yelling Fire in ..etc...

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Re: excellent point but

In reply to: excellent point but

regardless of why or where

I'd disagree there. Of course, I think we can all recognize there are moments that a wrong word can do incalculable harm.

But my disagreement is with no regard to why or where.

If you can convince me someone is protesting not because they believe something specific is wrong, but with the intend to undermind the government either on general principle the government is wrong or they are knowing acting on behalf of a foreign interest, then they are near or at committing treason.

But my main disagreement is with those, particularly celebrities that go to other countries to make deragatory speeches. Espcially the capital of the country we're near or in conflict with.

Saying the same thing here in America at a rally, a protest, a concert even, may be conciousious protest. Saying it from the headquarters of the enemy is disrespect for our country and government, if not flat out treason.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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Re: That argument goes in all directions Dave

In reply to: That argument goes in all directions Dave

Steve, there never really WAS a "South VietNam," unlike Korea. The division of VietNam was imposed by the French when they abandoned their (literally) colonial war, and the majority of people on both sides of the line wanted reunification. Unfortunately the vietNames government has not been as benign as one would like, especially towards Buddhism, but thisngs are apparently getting better -- theyre following the Chinese pattern, though at least 10 years behind in both economic prospects and personal freedoms. Being for democracy means being willing to accept the verdict when it goes against you -- unfortunately, the US has never been as good about that aspect of democracy when it applies to foreign countries (El Salvador, Cuba, Allende's Chile) as it is domestically, though we're again getting worse in that regard at home, too. Nixon was the first such threat, but over-reached and was brought down for it; GWB has the cover of "fighting terrosim" for similar anti-democratic (both large and small d) abuse of the government.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Trying to re-write history again Dave?

In reply to: Re: That argument goes in all directions Dave

your version does not even come close to the facts regarding Vietnam.

The Gia Long empire became part of a geographical entity called French Indochina, and consisted of Cochinchina in the south, Annam in the center and Tonkin in the north as well as Laos and Kampuchea.

It wasn't a "united" independant country until Japan overthrew the Vichy French government they had allowed to govern after they occupied it in 1940 and established and "Independant" Vietnam under their protection in March of 1945. In August of 1945 the Japanese installed governor abdicated to Ho Chi Minh thinking he was handing the government over to a true national fron supported by the allies. The Viet Minh was no such thing however but Ho Chi Minh went ahead and declared himself President of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in September of 1945 before allied forces arrived. That "Democratic Republic" was Tonkin. The French recognized it but Ho wanted it all.

It was the UN in 1954 that actually divided Vietnam into North (Tonkin) and South (combining Cochinchina and Annam), not the French who left Vietnam two years later.

You might want to study or at least read some actual history rather than SDS propaganda regarding vietnam before you try to pontificate Dave.

Here is one such you may find handy:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/vntoc.html

Here is one that might be more appreciated by skimmers:
http://disc.cba.uh.edu/~lienhoa/history.shtml

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The safety of their own butts was the motivator for

In reply to: Re: the freedom to speak your mind

most who protested or went to Canada. I guess, however, you will agree that JFK was a poor Commander in Chief, first in the Bay of Pigs, and then in Vietnam. Just think! Kerry wants to be just like JFK.

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Re: The safety of their own butts was the motivator for

In reply to: The safety of their own butts was the motivator for

"The safety of their own butts was the motivator for most who protested or went to Canada."

That's the easy answer, isn't it. Actually, the safety of our friends and classmates and countryboys was the "motivator for most who protested". Viet Nam drug on and on, with no good end even imaginable. The whole tougher-on-communism vote getting contest that we heard for so many many years, had long ago become very hollow and self-serving sounding. When we ask our people to go and die, lets at the very least have some plan for winning. Some damn wag-the-dog electioneering just ain't good enough.
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Yes it was Bob.

In reply to: Re: The safety of their own butts was the motivator for

Those really interested in the safety and well being of others don't pull ladders or other support out from under them.

The protestor's real concerns for family and friends are clarified below:

As we wonder through the night,
If you should get into a fight,
Although you know I wish you well,
Don't count on me, I'll run like hell.

The Communist threat was real and ongoing and if one doubts it they only need to look at what happened in Vietnam after we left. The don't really even need to look that far though as Cuba is also a fine example (one JFK almost had to go to war for over missiles).

You, like Dave, appear to really be unaware of the actual history of Vietnam and the illigitimate government of the Viet Minh as well as their blowing off a UN Resolution much on the same order as Saddam did many times.

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Where was that quote from?

In reply to: Yes it was Bob.

As we wonder through the night,
If you should get into a fight,
Although you know I wish you well,
Don't count on me, I'll run like hell.
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Quote?

In reply to: Where was that quote from?

It wasn't in quotes because it wasn't quoted Bill. Just my own comment.

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Cute poem. :-(

In reply to: Yes it was Bob.

~

My unawareness is why I hang around here and listen to you.

Cute poem. Some run regardless. Some have obnoxious, hateful, wrong-headed, aggressive, manipulative friends.

Yeah, the actual world communist movement that we were confronted with was no doubt a bloody mistake and needed to be fought. Too bad we chose and continue to choose such scum-balls to team up with. I know we were facing the threat of the bomb, but too bad we decided to engage in such a way as to ONLY demonstrate our willingness to fight and bleed without hope or expectation of winning. Too bad we sent dumb-*** po' kids to be cops. Too bad we bought into electioneering as good diplomacy and foreign policy. It became so obvious that what we were sold is not what we got that we settled for distraction and polarization. And one more too bad. Too bad that the anti-protester BS was so incorporated into bootcamp stripping-away-of-all-outside-support indoctrination.

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He sounds like? Who makes him sound like.....?

In reply to: If you read what the former pow's had to say

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how many sides to that coin?

In reply to: He sounds like? Who makes him sound like.....?

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