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How's this for

by TONI H / October 31, 2011 10:13 PM PDT

******** stupid? Greece is getting a bail out deal and instead will hold up the deal so they can hold a referendum for the voters of that country to decide whether they should take the deal or not. All the while, Greece is being trashed by protestors who don't want Greece to put into place spending cuts to their entitlements. DUHHHHHH...how does this PM think they will vote?

His announcement yesterday caused the DOW here to tank once again. Thanks, you *******.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/31/us-greece-referendum-idUSTRE79U5PQ20111031

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RE: caused the DOW here to tank once again.
by JP Bill / October 31, 2011 10:17 PM PDT
In reply to: How's this for

you got stock?

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Having lived in Greece
by James Denison / October 31, 2011 11:24 PM PDT
In reply to: How's this for

and being familiar with their politics, I can tell you this is a very shrewd move on his part to bring the other European countries into line the way he wants them. He is quite wily and shrewd, just like his father who was in power when I lived there. I still remember "Pfise yia PASOK, Pfise yia nea niki!" the party cry in the 80's. Papandreou wasn't getting as much money as he wanted as quick as he wanted, so after getting what he could he pulled this. If he'd just announced a pullout from the European Union, abandonment of the Euro, he'd have placed his head on the European political guillotine, but by calling for a referendum then he can shunt any blame onto the Greek people and the institution of Democracy. He got all he could up front, and now playing his Ace he had up his sleeve, which is a threat to destabilize all of Europe unless they give Greece a sweeter deal.

The real question in all of this is if Europe will call his bluff and if it's just a bluff.

When I saw it today I couldn't help but chuckle, since I'd been wondering what sort of surprise Greece would pull out of their bag of tricks. This is a good one! Wink

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Europe to call Greek's bluff?
by James Denison / November 2, 2011 12:00 AM PDT
In reply to: Having lived in Greece
No Changes In Plan!

Hmm, think they know these pesky Greeks? Wink

Now the fun begins in waiting to see who blinks first.

=====================

European leaders racing to prevent
their week-old debt crisis strategy from unravelling convene
emergency talks today to tell Greece there is no alternative to
the budget cuts imposed in the bailout plan.Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou, his hold on power
weakening, was summoned to Cannes on the eve of a Group of 20
summit where he will hear from French President Nicolas Sarkozy
that the "only way to resolve Greek debt problems" is through
a deal hammered out last week in a six-day crisis-management
marathon.

(could this be back pedaling already? -jd)

"Given the state of markets and world affairs in general,
it is clear that the leaders will work hard at sending a
positive message of cooperation and solidarity" from the G-20,
said Erik Nielsen, global chief economist at UniCredit Bank AG
in London. "But, frankly, it is difficult to be too
optimistic."
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coming across news right now, Greek govt may collapse
by James Denison / November 1, 2011 1:51 AM PDT
In reply to: How's this for

If it does then elections in 23 days. Papandreou is only one supporter away from requirement to have new elections. Talk is a referendum may not happen since the Greek govt may fall tonight. If so, then all is put on hold till after new elections are completed. What Greece will be facing would be a coalition govt. There is little chance of such a govt, so possible year of election after election would be held for the next year or more.

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If Greece falls
by TONI H / November 1, 2011 2:04 AM PDT

Italy is next because the entire EU banking institution will go down. Italy is in horrible shape and teetering.

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Yes
by James Denison / November 1, 2011 2:30 AM PDT
In reply to: If Greece falls

Large banks are dumping Italian debt right now on anyone they can get to take it, even at some deep discounts. The exact extent of that may not be reported fully for days however. That's the best indicator that both Greece and Italy are expected to default and the banks don't want to take a total loss on it.

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Wondering
by TONI H / November 1, 2011 7:52 PM PDT

because I haven't seen any coverage about this....in their democratic tradition, does anybody from the government actually inform the people of the terms of the bailout, including the requirement for the austerity reduction, and how it will benefit their entire country to take the deal? We've seen, in our own country, how you have to 'pass it to see what's in it' how well that works; however, there are protests all over Greece because the population has been so 'entitlement' ingrained that they absolutely don't seem to give a crap that accepting this deal might be the only way for their country to survive at all. Are any of the populace there willing to sacrifice anything for their country as a whole or is it another 'cut anybody but me' mentality? Or is this all just a ruse by the Greek government to get a bigger deal on the table so they can continue with at least most of the entitlements in order to calm the people down? It's been common knowledge that if Greece falls, so does the entire EU banking system with Italy next to fall, so is this subtle blackmail to those willing to help bail them out to come up with bigger bucks? If it IS blackmail of sorts, and these countries are supposed to be our allies, what can be trusted anymore?

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LOL, Politics is almost all they ever talk about
by James Denison / November 1, 2011 8:08 PM PDT
In reply to: Wondering

...in Greece. They love politics the way some countries love soccer. One thing the Greeks love to do is bargain. Yes, they can be trusted allies, of course. This is a shrewd move by Papandreou to pull the Greek people behind him and to shake a better deal out of Europe at the same time. Who in Greece can argue against him putting it to the people? Those who do run a risk later on of having it come back against them. Every Greek is just sure he's the best qualified to run the country, if he was the one in power, that's the way they are. LOL, right now I'm thinking of a rug salesman I had to bargain with on several occasions in Crete. Politics and making the deal, it's all part of their culture. They will talk you to death to get an extra drachma on a deal, then give you a glass of wine worth twice as much, just for the fun they had. Wink

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anybody but me
by James Denison / November 1, 2011 8:20 PM PDT
In reply to: Wondering

"Are any of the populace there willing to sacrifice anything for their
country as a whole or is it another 'cut anybody but me' mentality"

That's a hard one to answer without giving maybe the wrong answer, but unintentionally. I'll give you one example of interaction between the people and the govt. There is a high tax on any home once it's been completed, therefore many Greek homes are never completed, always in some very visible state of continuing construction, especially true on Crete it seemed, less so in Athens proper. Of course it was to avoid the tax. They could stretch this out for years and years, thereby avoiding the high tax that would be due. The Greek govt, at that time, rather than lowering the tax and making it more advantageous to just pay the tax and be done with it, instead just left it as they'd set it. The end result of course was entire areas that looked like the contractor walked away never completing the work. The most common look would be the first story completed and a pillar or two on the second floor (which was actually the roof) and when the tax authorities would come out and make enough problem, they'd have another support column poured, to show they were still working on the house, but it wasn't completed yet.

This is their approach to such matters. Europe is all hot and bothered to get a deal completed. Greeks mostly would have no problem letting it slide as long as they could until they get what they want or find some other way around it.

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