Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

General discussion

How do you protect your tech from electrical surges?

Jun 19, 2017 4:22AM PDT

Greetings Community Members, Ajtrek here. Below is an excerpt from an article published on 6/15/17 relating to Power Surges and Spikes in the U.S.

The New York City-based Insurance Information Institute a non-profit, communications organization supported by the U.S. insurance industry, conducted a study that revealed the following:

-- More than US$825 million in lightning claims was paid out last year to more than 109,000 policyholders;

-- Over 50% of claims were related to electrical surge damaging components or wiring, while power surges from transformer or service line shorts were also contributing factors.


That said, I should note that not every power surge or spike results in damages to electrical appliances and devices. While those numbers IMO (in the article) are not entirely representative of the millions of households that probably experience a power surge or spike in varying degrees; it still begs the question in regards to our own appliances and devices. Note: Links are provided for information only; but do contain advertisements.

Check out the full article here:
http://www.canadianunderwriter.ca/insurance/number-lightning-related-homeowners-insurance-claims-u-s-2016-average-cost-insurers-insurance-information-institute-1004115334/

To understand more about what a power surge/spike is or isn’t; and how they’re caused click the link:
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infelectrical/infsurge.html

With the ever increasing number of electrical appliances and devices in our homes that are continuously connected to an electrical power source; it should behoove us all to take an extra precautionary step to limit the potential damage that a probable power surge or spike may cause. If you are a home owner you can actually incorporate power surge and spike protection into the wiring at every receptacle. While that solution is a good first step (depending upon where you live) a second layer of external protection may still be a good bet.

We share a lot of excellent information about tech in this forum. Computers and/or similar tech being the primary focus. However, one topic I’ve not seen discussed is “how do we protect our tech from the nasties caused by the local power grid or even an ISP” (i.e. Power Surges/Spikes). IMO power surge and spike protection are just as important as good computer maintenance, virus and malware protection.

Here’s what I use and not just for my computers; but tech such as Stereo Components, TV’s, stand-alone lighting, appliances and Home AI devices. If you find it to be somewhat overkill…that’s OK

Stand-alone lighting, Appliances and Home AI devices:
Wall mount (single or multi-input) or Floor (multi-input) with a 500 to 3000 joule rating ($20-$30)
TV and Stereo Components:
Wall Mount or Floor < Battery Back-up ($98-$280) < Line Conditioner w/multi inputs ($300-$1000)
Computer Desktop:
Wall Mount or Floor < Battery Back-up
Computer Laptop charging
Wall mount (single or multi-input) or Floor (multi-input)
Cell Phones/Tablets/Other USB device charging
Wall Mount < Powered USB Hub ($30-$50)

Please share your thoughts and solutions – Thanks!

Together Everyone Achieves More = TEAM

Post was last edited on June 23, 2017 12:00 AM PDT

Discussion is locked

- Collapse -
I refer you back to my original statement
Jun 21, 2017 8:38PM PDT

....that optical cable does not carry electrical power. It by itself doesn't present a hazard to one's computers. House power surges do.

- Collapse -
(NT) Where the lightning hit?
Jun 22, 2017 7:29AM PDT
- Collapse -
Where the lighning hit? Again
Jun 22, 2017 7:37AM PDT

Hit the wrong key the first time. Just wanted to mention that several years ago, when I lived in South Dakota, I came home from work and heard that lightning had hit the 2nd house from us. I soon noticed my internet (cable) connection was out. A repair guy showed up quickly. He tested everything, especially the modem, and said everything looked good, and was clearly stumped. I reminded him a few times about the lightning strike down the street. He finally went out to the van and tried a new modem. Presto. That was no coincidence.

- Collapse -
UPS makes sense for computers and AV - what about the rest?
Jun 21, 2017 5:06AM PDT

More and more appliances incorporate digital electronics -- washing machines, clothes dryers, ranges, and now even refrigerators. Many of those items are high current and/or high voltage (240VAC). So what can we do to protect them? I did a cursory search a while back and found nothing for that market. Did I miss a surge protector for my 240VAC range? Are there surge protectors designed to handle the inductive motors in the washers, dryers, and refrigerators? Ajtrek's comments seem to have been cut off -- his last paragraph ends "Here’s what I use and not just for my computers; but tech such as Stereo Components, TV’s, stand-alone lighting, appliances and Home AI devices. If you find it to be somewhat overkill…that’s OK", but nothing followed as to what they use now...

Thanks for any insight into this evolving area!

- Collapse -
Some of us use "Dumb" Appliances
Jun 21, 2017 7:18AM PDT

Not just because I do NOT want a connected car or home for security and privacy reasons, I also don't use them for the reasons you mentioned. It would be a real pity to buy a refrigerator and pay several thousand dollars for screens and technology only to realize that any of those components only to have a component go out while the basic purpose of the refrigerator (cold) is still fine and functional.
I'm not an expert here put you might want to look up in the manual or specs for a UPS whether or not it is capable of handling a "motor". I don't know if motorized appliances are that sensitive to surges or not but it is a great question.

- Collapse -
It's getting more and more difficult to use "Dumb" ones...
Jun 21, 2017 1:26PM PDT

More and more appliances are going to digital for better control and features, so it's getting harder and harder to find purely mechanical appliances. I prefer them dumb as well, especially my fridge - I won't go digital there until they completely stop making the old style (and then maybe I'll find one to hack so I don't get screwed up by the tech). My comment about motors relates to the fact that when power is quickly stopped, i.e. the fridge is cool, the inductive coils in the motor release the energy that's still stored and create a spike on the power lines. (Think of a smaller version of the old points and condenser ignition system in cars -- if you're old enough to remember carburetors). That can erode the performance of the usual MOV protection far faster than the few spikes a year you get from the utility. That's why surge suppression (and often electrical noise suppression) is difficult with motors. No telling what the manufacturers are doing internally, if anything, to protect the digital stuff, long term. 240 VAC surge suppression seems to be a whole other beast, with little available in the market...

- Collapse -
Easy Solutions
Jun 21, 2017 8:48AM PDT

In MY case, since most electrical surges happen, during foul weather: i.e.: thunderstorms, and lightning, my protection procedure is simple.

While I do use the best rated surge suppressors, sold, in my area, whenever I see lightning, I just shut everything DOWN. This way, my limited "tech gear": i.e., home computer is protected. After all, if a machine is NOT turned on, it CANT be short-circuited.

Second, to protect my home computer from "hacking" (when I actually HAVE home internet service), I avoid all the nonsense, from the computer programmers, about sub-shielding, and cross-matrix this and that.

When I am not USING my computer, I simply remove the telephone line, from the machine. No connection means no tampering.

Still, my suggestion, to you, is to purchase the best surge protectors, that you can find, and back this up, by turning OFF your equipment, during foul weather.

These simple, low-tech, suggestions, have protected my home computers, for YEARS.

I HOPE they do the SAME, for you.

Good Luck!

- Collapse -
You're still at risk
Jun 21, 2017 11:01AM PDT

If you turn your computer off, but it's still plugged in, it's still vulnerable to a lightning strike or toppled power pole. A major power surge can often blow right by the power supply.

That can also happen through a network and telephone connection. So, while unplugging your phone line to prevent "hacking" is just silly, it does protect against that teeny chance of an alternate pathway into your system.

- Collapse -
Not enough
Jun 21, 2017 11:30AM PDT

When there is a thunderstorm, or when there may be a thunderstorm while you are away, you should unplug both the phone line to the modem and all of the sensitive equipment until the storm has passed or you get home. Many have found this out the hard way. Yes, it can be damaged when it is turned off. Only a physical disconnect can protect electronics from surges caused by lightning.

I have a large power strip in each room. The stuff that is not particularly expensive or is not sensitive is plugged directly into it. The sensitive equipment is plugged into a high quality surge protector which is then plugged into the power strip (which I deliberately place where I can get to it). When there is a storm, I unplug the entire surge protector that has my sensitive equipment plugged into it AND the telephone line connection to my modem. This is done to make it easy and quick. A few seconds in each room and it is done. Even better, a few seconds is all it take to reconnect everything. All I have to do is remember which plug to unplug from the power strips.

- Collapse -
you cannot
Jun 21, 2017 12:17PM PDT

you cannot just unplug your smart refrigerator until a storm passes. you cannot just turn stuff off without unplugging because as long as they are plugged in, they are still connected to the house wiring which surges could follow.

I have everything on surge protectors but it will not protect from lightning - nothing does. I do not have any large smart appliances and never plan to get any. In addition I never do anything special for storms unless water is up to my door step and have to start moving thing up - which has happened.

- Collapse -
Smart Refrigerator?
Jun 21, 2017 12:37PM PDT

I do not have such things. I do unplug all of my sensitive electronics when there is a storm. As for appliances, yes you can unplug them but I don't have that issue and I don't plan to. I don't know why you are objecting to the simple and effective method of unplugging the equipment until the storm has passed. It is inconvenient, yes, but it works. In order to hit that equipment, the lighting would have to hit the item inside the house. It is possible, but highly unlikely. As for doing nothing, that is not an option. I am not independently wealthy. I cannot afford to replace thousands of dollars of computer equipment every year or two. Not unplugging it would simply be stupid.

- Collapse -
its stupid to think its stupid :-)
Jun 21, 2017 1:23PM PDT

maybe reckless but not stupid - that is what insurance is for. Now if I lived in Florida or some other area of the country where there are a lot of lightning strikes, then I would do things differently

- Collapse -
Yes, it is stupid
Jun 21, 2017 2:19PM PDT

I don't know why are arguing with me. I live in Missouri, and we get a lot of lightning strikes. If you don't want to unplug your equipment, that is up to you, but it would be stupid for me not to. I must have my computers for school and work (online school, by the way). I cannot afford to be "reckless" as you call it. Why are you contradicting my reasonable statements?

- Collapse -
my statements are just as reasonable to me
Jun 21, 2017 2:58PM PDT

I am sorry you take offense anytime someone disagrees with you. You are the one who started the argument when you replied to my post and called me stupid. In addition I lived in Missouri for 14 years and never had problems with lightning. This is my last post on this.

- Collapse -
I did NOT call you stupid
Jun 21, 2017 6:05PM PDT

Where did you get such an idea?

- Collapse -
maybe
Jun 21, 2017 9:44PM PDT

in all the "stupids" above???

- Collapse -
The dots appear to connect
Jun 21, 2017 11:47PM PDT

He said he does not unplug his devices. You saw that he said he does not unplug his devices. You made the conscious decision to reply to his message. Your reply included the sentence, quote "Not unplugging it would simply be stupid."

That's not calling him stupid?

In context, I think what you were trying to do with that sentence was reiterate that not unplugging was a financial risk you were not willing to take. That would have been a much better way to phrase it. Another way to say it, albeit I think still with a derogatory undertone, would have been, "Not unplugging it would be stupid, for someone in my financial situation." But, that would also be basically a repeat of what you just said. So, it probably should have been cut completely.

Then you doubled down on the general-sounding, "Yes, it is stupid" subject line, which you expected people to interpret it as a personal, "It would be stupid for me."

Basically, you've trained yourself to use the word "stupid" as a shorthand for anything that you choose/decide/determine you won't do. I recommend you should probably break yourself of that habit, or this is going to come up over and over. Keep in mind that "stupid" varies, and is easily taken wrong.

- Collapse -
Doesn't anyone know how to read anymore?
Jun 22, 2017 12:03PM PDT

You can't take statements out of context and then say they make sense. Read it. I did NOT call him or anyone else stupid. Don't correct my English. I know exactly what I wrote and I know exactly how it should be taken, according to the standard rule of the language. You are the one who is not using proper English and then blaming it on me. Clarifying statement are not needed when the statement is clear to begin with.

- Collapse -
Up to you
Jun 22, 2017 12:50PM PDT

"Stupid" is a charged word. And, I'm not talking about just in the current milquetoast climate of triggering. That's been true for a long time. In a conversation like you just had with that guy, that's the word that's going to jump out to most people.

And, to be precise, the correct word for your original sentence would probably have been "unwise," or "foolish." There's a difference between stupid and foolish. Smart person can be foolish. I've corrected my own writing and speech to differentiate between the two. I find that I rarely use the word stupid, anymore. It's rarely the correct choice.

In the American vernacular, most people use stupid along the lines of, "That was foolish." With a hint of, "Oh, and you're probably stupid, too." It has become a lazy way to insult someone, and then back out of it. "I didn't say *you* were stupid!" That doesn't seem to be what you meant when you wrote that. But, that's what most people hear, these days.

If you want to keep using the word stupid in that kind of context, go right ahead. I predict you're going to have a steady stream of people blowing up at you in written and spoken conversation. Or, shutting down and ignoring you. If you're trying to share information or convince someone of something, then using that word seems unwise, to me Wink

- Collapse -
Actually, You Are Incorrect
Jun 21, 2017 2:31PM PDT

First of all, even if your computer is "off", The network interface card is still very much powered on as well be some other circuits. Unless you've powered off the PC by the power cord or a switched surge protector. You are still very much connected. How about your network devices? (Router, Cable Modem)? What happens if you are not at home during foul weather?
Anyway, you might want to try this test. If you can, run your computer with the case open and see if there are any LEDs on such as with your network card. If you shut the computer down, do these LEDs turn off? Mine doesn't. Besides if you are hit by lightning, off or on a surge can come through your network wiring.

- Collapse -
Electric Utility Surge Protection plus everything else here
Jun 21, 2017 9:37AM PDT

I am an electrical engineer. UPS's, power strips, etc. mentioned here will work but...not if there is a lightning strike directly on your house or very nearby...I had such an event happen here TWICE in one month!

My roof attic fan was struck directly by lightning, the jolt followed the wiring down to my breaker box, it fused the breaker it was connected through (melted it in a closed circuit condition!), then jumped to the next closest circuit in the panel and traveled down that circuit to an old PC I was using as a printer server, it burned out the MOVs (metal oxide varistors) in the surge protecting power strip and fried the power supply of the old PC. But wait there's more, the surge also followed the network cable to all the other PCs on the network and fried their network cards.

A week later I replaced all the network cards, about a week after that another electrical storm came through an lightning hit in our back yard, the jolt found our phone line and followed it inside the house and fried the modem cards in all the PC's (this was the old days before high-speed Internet through cable or FiOS).

After that, I signed up for Dominion Electric (our utility) surge protection program. They came out to the house and installed additional grounding and a whole house surge protector, as well as providing wall outlet plug-in surge protectors and a UPS.

Just to be safe, I pay attention to the weather reports and shut down and unplug PC's if a storm is headed our way. I also backup important data at least weekly.

Surge protectors and UPS's are not always enough. By the way, many inexpensive surge protectors only use one MOV bypassing only one (the hot) of the 3 lines (hot, neutral and ground), better ones use at least 2 MOVs and even better one use 3 (so there is 1 each hot-neut, hot-gnd, neut-gnd). Mine had all three but even the highest rated MOVs could not handle the direct lightning hit.

- Collapse -
lets not forget
Jun 21, 2017 1:47PM PDT

surge protectors must be replaced every so often. they eventually lose the protection and are just power strips especially if you live have a lot of surges. also gotta remember surges are not always caused by external forces. It can be caused by big appliances that are faulty or using too many devices on a circuit. You ever be sitting watching the tube when the refridgerator or central air kicks in and the lights brightens or dulls?

- Collapse -
Ben Franklin
Jun 21, 2017 2:42PM PDT

Ben Franklin developed this product that may be of help to you: a lightning rod. Above your house and properly grounded that should help. I here of being hit by lightning. But TWICE? wow!

- Collapse -
Lightning rod sort of a misnomer
Jun 21, 2017 10:57PM PDT

It seems lightning has preferences for where it strikes, I have also seen a Walnut tree at a different house I lived in get hit twice...in fact, all the Walnut trees we had got hit by lightning over time, maybe they draw up copper or iron or something from the soil that makes for a good conduction?

But lightning rods are really to avoid lightning by discharging the static charges to ground BEFORE they develop into an arc of lightning, in theory anyway. I have know a few people over the year with barns, with lightning rods, and when lightning hit one of the rods, it burned the barn down...so much for that idea. I think my roof fan was acting like a "lightning rod" when it got hit. When the backyard got hit (never figured out exactly what it hit, but I sure heard it) it found the buried phone line in the ground.

The electric utility installed a copper grounding rod for the house when I got the surge protection coverage. Out house's electrical system was grounded to the cold water pipe which seems to be a typical thing builders do. They also put a surge protector on the service - it has a little green LED that shows it's working - one time I noticed it had turned RED and the utility came out and replaced it - it had protected the house but was rendered inoperable by the surge.

So I pay with my electric bill a $5 fee for the surge protection, but they'll replace anything that gets zapped, so it's basically insurance. Homeowner's policies might not cover lightning and other such things (falling trees, flood water, etc) without special riders.

As for APC UPS's, I have had one of them fail and start smoking on its own, not due to a surge, but it was many years old.

BTW, with FiOS phone service, yes the cable going to our house is fiber and immune to surges, but they used the old original phone wiring box which is on the outside of our house to make the phone hookup, so it could be vulnerable to a nearby lightning strike.

As for 240vac circuits, we have a 240v digital programmable kiln for pottery in an out building - the installer said to unplug it or pop the breaker when not in use and not to use it during a storm - he'd seen some get fried by surges. The out building has it's own copper ground rod at the service as well.

As with hacking, the surest bet to avoid damage is to unplug. Yes, all those 'smart appliances' etc. that are really computers, are vulnerable to surges AND hacking if they are networked. Control your house via smartphone? Dumb idea, imho a security risk. Now that's an interesting topic!

- Collapse -
Probably Water
Jun 22, 2017 3:14PM PDT

Water can conduct electricity so water in trees can act as a conductor. Lightning will take the easiest path to ground. I've seen that on a special that used high-speed photography to show the (I forgot what they call it) electrons going upward towards the cloud and then the lightning picks a path from one of those.

- Collapse -
Yeah..
Jun 23, 2017 6:37PM PDT

when I was in industrial repair, we had a saying that lighting does what it wants to, no matter the best laid plans of mice and men! HA! Happy

- Collapse -
The old lighting rod design doesn't work..
Jun 23, 2017 5:54PM PDT

What has been proven to work by UL laboratory experiment (if I remember my history here), is a simple Yagi Beam TV antenna or a "lightning rod" that is shaped like an umbrella of wire. This I can personally attest does work. We had our TV antenna properly grounded ( and sorry, I don't remember how to properly ground one), but the 1/4" copper wire that came down from the roof and into the ground was right next to our TV room window. One day I was watching TV and we got hit right on the TV antenna, and by golly the ground wire by the window flashed a huge ball of light and sparks, and the TV didn't even blink!! That TV never did fail me - and I only threw it away years later because it was obsolete - it was still working the day I sent it to the salvage yard!!

- Collapse -
AjTrek here...
Jun 21, 2017 3:52PM PDT

Thanks to everyone for sharing your comments and suggestions. I’m sure someone will read them and learn something they hadn’t considered in the past. So keep em’ coming.

I read a post where someone inquired about electrical surge/spike protection for large appliances like a refrigerator, electric range or built-in microwave. Refrigerators are designed to be flush (as much as possible) with the receptacle wall. Electric ranges and clothes dryers have specially designed plugs. I have not seen an external surge protection device designed for them (ranges and dryers). That said the best solution I can offer to guard against electrical surges/spikes is a Whole Home device. If anyone knows of an external device please let us know. The link is for information purposes only as an example of a Whole Home surge protection device; however it will take you Home Depot’s website. You’ve been warned Wink

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-FirstSurge-Pro-140kA-Whole-House-Surge-Protection-Device-FS140/206560230

Seems as though the last part of my post didn’t make it. So here’s what I was going to print…

Wall Plug Mount or Protection Strip rated at 900 joules or more
Small appliances, printers, scanners, lamps, AI devices, Streaming devices and any other small gadget including USB charging stations

Battery Back-up
Desktop computer/Monitors and Laptop charging bricks

Battery Back-up + Line Conditioner
TV’s, Stereo, Powered speakers, Game consoles, Modem and Router

Once again thanks for commenting.

Together Everyone Achieves More = TEAM

- Collapse -
Whole house surge protection..
Jun 23, 2017 7:42PM PDT

I was looking into that a few years back, and the system was sort of complicated - I suspect that device in the link is just one part of the system. Excellent idea, and I suspect it would work better that anything suggested yet! From what I see Leviton seems to have it simplified to three levels of protection, but when I was looking at them they had all three levels installed at once and of course an assurance of external grounding at the meter or very near the utility entrance. Here is one dirt simple diagram I found.

http://dollenselectric.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Whole_House_Surge_Protections.jpg

And here is a link briefly illustrating the 3 levels of protection featured by Leviton.

http://leviton.com/standalone/Surge_Protective_Devices/homeowners.html

I'm not a shill for Leviton, and there are many good brands, Johnson Controls, and Square D are some that I can take right off the top of my head. Thanks for putting up with me!

- Collapse -
Some people are bickering over a word "stupid" - LET IT GO!
Jun 22, 2017 1:13PM PDT

Some people here are bickering over the use of the word "stupid" in a post, and it is wasting everyone else's time because we get email updates about the on-going discussion every time there is a response.

The person who used the word has said they did NOT intend it to be interpreted as calling someone else "stupid" - accept them at their word, and move on. Get over it and let it go please, life is too short.

The original question asked about surges and lightning protection. In sum, there are a lot of things one can do to protect against surges, as helpful people have noted here. As for lightning, as many people have pointed out, unplugging is the only surefire way to avoid damage.

One other thing that happened around here after a hurricane/tropical storm went through and knocked out a lot of power line was that the utility hired contractors, and some of them were like the three stooges and hooked up the wires wrong sending 240v into 120v circuits frying a bunch of homes' refrigerators etc. Not much one can do about stuff like that. Luckily there was no loss of life.

Along those same lines, when we had an electrician wire up our out building for the kiln (a 240v apparatus) the electrician wired up the 120v wall outlets for the potters wheel etc. wrong and they had 240v on them - I found out when my drill I was using to install some drywall screws fried! He had labeled one of the two hot lines as neutral. The installer's company explained that his fiancee had run off with his best friend just before he did the work...bummer, but is that any excuse to screw-up so bad that he could have burned down our shed? They also cut our telephone and cable lines when they dug the trench from our service to the shed.

People make mistakes, which is why we have insurance...and lawyers.