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General discussion

How do you protect your tech from electrical surges?

Jun 19, 2017 4:22AM PDT

Greetings Community Members, Ajtrek here. Below is an excerpt from an article published on 6/15/17 relating to Power Surges and Spikes in the U.S.

The New York City-based Insurance Information Institute a non-profit, communications organization supported by the U.S. insurance industry, conducted a study that revealed the following:

-- More than US$825 million in lightning claims was paid out last year to more than 109,000 policyholders;

-- Over 50% of claims were related to electrical surge damaging components or wiring, while power surges from transformer or service line shorts were also contributing factors.


That said, I should note that not every power surge or spike results in damages to electrical appliances and devices. While those numbers IMO (in the article) are not entirely representative of the millions of households that probably experience a power surge or spike in varying degrees; it still begs the question in regards to our own appliances and devices. Note: Links are provided for information only; but do contain advertisements.

Check out the full article here:
http://www.canadianunderwriter.ca/insurance/number-lightning-related-homeowners-insurance-claims-u-s-2016-average-cost-insurers-insurance-information-institute-1004115334/

To understand more about what a power surge/spike is or isn’t; and how they’re caused click the link:
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infelectrical/infsurge.html

With the ever increasing number of electrical appliances and devices in our homes that are continuously connected to an electrical power source; it should behoove us all to take an extra precautionary step to limit the potential damage that a probable power surge or spike may cause. If you are a home owner you can actually incorporate power surge and spike protection into the wiring at every receptacle. While that solution is a good first step (depending upon where you live) a second layer of external protection may still be a good bet.

We share a lot of excellent information about tech in this forum. Computers and/or similar tech being the primary focus. However, one topic I’ve not seen discussed is “how do we protect our tech from the nasties caused by the local power grid or even an ISP” (i.e. Power Surges/Spikes). IMO power surge and spike protection are just as important as good computer maintenance, virus and malware protection.

Here’s what I use and not just for my computers; but tech such as Stereo Components, TV’s, stand-alone lighting, appliances and Home AI devices. If you find it to be somewhat overkill…that’s OK

Stand-alone lighting, Appliances and Home AI devices:
Wall mount (single or multi-input) or Floor (multi-input) with a 500 to 3000 joule rating ($20-$30)
TV and Stereo Components:
Wall Mount or Floor < Battery Back-up ($98-$280) < Line Conditioner w/multi inputs ($300-$1000)
Computer Desktop:
Wall Mount or Floor < Battery Back-up
Computer Laptop charging
Wall mount (single or multi-input) or Floor (multi-input)
Cell Phones/Tablets/Other USB device charging
Wall Mount < Powered USB Hub ($30-$50)

Please share your thoughts and solutions – Thanks!

Together Everyone Achieves More = TEAM

Post was last edited on June 23, 2017 12:00 AM PDT

Discussion is locked

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UPS
Jun 20, 2017 6:07PM PDT

Being a System Administrator for government agencies, we always used UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply). You can find these in your Best Buy (but don't ask the staff because they have no idea what you are talking about. The guy I spoke to thought I meant GPS. Had to find them myself. At my last position, we had a HUGE UPS that cost thousands of dollars.
The trick though, is to fully understand YOUR particular usage case and your risk. For example, if you live in a state where there is low probability of lightning, you might get away with a power surge strip (provided you don't leave your tech on ALL the time. If you live in a state like Florida, you might want to move up to something substantial.
Now, think about what would happen if you lost your hard drive. You do a backup, right? No big deal. But, we know that electrical surges can damage equipment and the issue is how much money it would cost to repair or replace and how long would you be down.
In the industry we have TWO sets of data to be concerned with: RTP and RPO. What do they stand for? Unless you do proposals for IT projects that require you to encompass "availability" --

A - Availability
R - Reliability
M - Maintainability
S - Security

it is just wise to note that these are about what happens during and after an incident:
1) How long can the "system" be down and out of operation?
2) How much data are you allowed to lose?

As with everything, you have to equate this with the universal engineering symbol: $

UPS systems (I have at least three here at home) will get you through most surges, but they cost a LOT of money. Not just money to BUY them (look at prices online) but also the cost in electricity to keep the batteries charged even after you shut off your tech equipment. It ain't cheap! Then the batteries have a "lifetime" rating and need to be replaced every so often usually at large cost.
On the other hand we have the surge protector. These usually work well EXCEPT if you have a series of multiple surges. Some protectors can "die" after a surge while protecting your equipment but the you are exposed. By the way, do laptops need a UPS? Not really because the battery in them acts just like a UPS.

So, what would I suggest. Analyze what would or could happen during a surge. Could be a car knocking down a power pole cuts your electricity but the surge comes when the power is being restored. Figure out how really critical your systems are. Do you have money to replace them at the component level? How long can they be down? Do you have a backup? Oh, and don't forget your cable modem and router. Inventory what you have and, if it is "plugged-in" review what can happen and how much do you want to spend in protection. Not every device needs the same protection. Ask yourself if you have the money for replacement and/or repairs but also take into account the cost of any protection. How much does a UPS cost? New replacement batteries? How much electricity does it use just to keep itself charged? How big of a UPS do you need? or would multiple small UPSes be better? Then answer the basic question: "How lucky do you feel?".

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Other considerations
Jun 21, 2017 9:49PM PDT

Fast blow fuses between electric and sensitive equipment. Also "ground fault" type plugs and switches such as used with outdoor appliances and tools.

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I used to care..
Jun 23, 2017 5:25PM PDT

I had a UPS years ago for the computer, and I got tired of chasing all the horns and alerts it put up every time there was a power anomaly. Finally when the batteries wore out, I was relieved and threw it away. Later I moved to a new location that had a bad electric pole connection, and this time it was affecting my HDTV. I kept hounding the city to fix it, but until it became so noisy you could hear the spark literally shooting out in the alley, they couldn't find it. This blew my TV up twice; so I finally got an expensive power line conditioner from a well known brand, and that thing went bad within a few months. and I just didn't have the time or patience to run the troubleshooting routine of the device's console. So I gave up and realized it is cheaper to and easier to simple call the TV repair man if it happens again, and maybe it won't because I'm in a better neighborhood now.

I know - it is a bad attitude, but I'm not convinced there is such a thing as one of these devices that is really worth bothering to pay for; even if the do work( for a while) One of the most irritating things about the attending software is it needed Java to run, and I also got tired of trying to solve every unsuccessful Java security update. I'm glad I don't have to mess with that anymore too!

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Undefined Acronyms
Jul 3, 2017 11:32PM PDT

Would you be kind enough to tell us exactly what RTP and RPO stand for, please?

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Acronyms
Jul 4, 2017 2:07AM PDT

RTP - RTP is an "OLD" term that meant "Return to Production" but it is more recently replaced by RTO which is Recovery Time Objective (OK, so I'm very old)
RTO - As mentioned, this is the Recovery Time Objective
RPO - Recovery Point Objective

These objectives are usually not something that applies to a home user, but will apply to small to medium businesses as well as the "enterprise".
RTO (or RTP) is the amount of time a given system is allowed to be down. It is a goal set by the business and has to be carried through system design. For example, lets use websites. A website for something relatively minor may be allowed to be down for 1-2 hours, off-peak, due to problems or maintenance. But a global website ("Google"?) the RTO is expressed in seconds (time is money). One costs a LOT more than the other and may involve backup websites (hot standby).
RPO is the amount of data that you are allowed to lose in a system outrage. It might be unusual to think of EVER losing data, but the cost and methodology to NOT lose any data is not always easy. For example, if you went to get a new drivers license but, after you walk out, the system goes down and your new drivers license information is lost, that would be something really difficult to explain to management. However, you can design a system to not lose information if the information is recorded to several locations before returning control to the user. Loss of a hard drive or storage arrays can reek havoc but a system can be designed to improve the situation, but at costs.
And that brings us to discussions about malware, ransomware and, surge protection. If this is a home system, hopefully with backup, you should be able to restore your system in a few hours of work. But the terms you are asking about have to do with businesses, mostly. Both terms are concerned with "Disaster Recovery" techniques.

I hope that helps. I tried to "generalize" what the terms meant to avoid a highly technical discussion. I apologize.

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and RIP
Jul 5, 2017 12:38AM PDT

Is when all has failed. Wink

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Undefined Acronyms (cont'd)
Jul 5, 2017 6:48AM PDT

Thanks so very much for taking the time to provide a lucid and understandable explanation to a non-Geek. I really, really appreciate. Never apologize for being a class act!

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It's Interesting Stuff
Jul 5, 2017 11:23AM PDT

But as I said, it's something you need to deal with at work and not so much at home and the acronyms don't mean as much as the concepts. We had a system (the "main" system) at work. We were told it had to be online from 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM. The rest of the time was for nightly batch: bringing in data from the outside, sorting, reloading databases, etc. The "online" portion had to be down when that was happening. So, 8-6 is 10 hours and the batch can be 14 hours (online + batch < 24 hours). But, even if the batch runs 7 hours, start adding more stuff onto that (new data, e.g.) and then a new call center that runs 2 shifts and some hot shot exec wants to be in at work with a live system at 5:00 AM. If the system was not defined around a 24-hour day, there could be trouble especially as things change. So that's a term called: "Availability". You can't say "yes" to everybody but...

I hope someone who works in IT can pick up something from any of this and I apologize for boring home users.

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Three Letters
Jun 20, 2017 6:08PM PDT

Uninterruptible Power Source.

Besides power to keep you in operation long enough for an orderly shutdown during a power failure, they "clean" the power when it is on. It's a good sine...

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I use an APC battery back up
Jun 20, 2017 6:10PM PDT

I've been using an APC battery back up system for the past 10 years, and I wouldn't want to use a home computer without one. It will provide battery power for a specified time then perform a controlled shut down of the computer (various options). It detects all kinds of minor electrical fluctuations, including surges of course, and keeps reports of incidents. Currently, it shows that in the last 4 weeks there were 2 incidents of "electical noise" where it switched to battery power for a total of 9 seconds.
When it comes to dealing with approaching lightning storms, I unplug both the APC unit and my computers. Lightning is way, way, more dangerous than common surges. Power strips with surge protection won't save your equipment from damage from a lightning strike.

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At home..
Jun 20, 2017 6:15PM PDT

So the best protection is to be sure you have a very good ground (system) at your power panel. Also that you have short runs to that ground in your electrical distribution system that powers your house. If that is not the case, there are only a few things that can protect your gear. UPS power supplies work only if they have an isolation transformer in them that also limits spikes. Those type of units can be very expensive. The best protection comes with the manufacturer's DC power supply design in your equipment. Those typically depend upon MOV's and other power spike protection devices that are very fast acting. So, have someone familiar with power supply design recommend the manufacturer with the best design.

Since all the above relies upon a good ground, get an Electrician to go over your electrical system and verify the ground you have at your house, and the design of the ground system in your home. Costly, but it is the most effective and enables your existing power protection to actually work.

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That is probably why...
Jun 23, 2017 5:30PM PDT

I haven't had any major trouble for over a year. I bought a house and had an electrician go through it - and he found a lot of incorrect wiring and grounding and corrected all of it. I think that has done more good that any of those high dollar expensive line conditioners I bought - and yes they had all the features you specified in your post.

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Risk management not risk avoidance
Jun 20, 2017 6:17PM PDT

What is your grid-based power like? Do you have frequent outages? Do lights briefly dim or blink at times? If you answer yes, then MAYBE you need additional protection.

First and foremost let's be clear. You are going to be buying an insurance policy, not something that can guarantee that NOTHING will get through the power connection / cable connection / network connection and damage connected devices. Is the device worth your trouble to pursue all the terms and conditions to collect the insurance (and by the way, does it even come with any insurance?) If not worth your trouble to collect, why bother spending the extra money?

If it is worth your trouble to collect, now we need to determine the potential problems and their consequences. Our land-line phones are through our cable service. Likewise, I work from a home office and blowing out a power-supply or motherboard has costs that frankly exceed the cost of the equipment itself. I have two power conditioning uninterruptible power supplies (UPS) in my office. One for the phone, and one for my network / PCs / monitors. Surge protectors don't protect against low voltage, and UPS units are more expensive.

Likewise, my $1000+ dollar home entertainment system is on a hefty surge protection system. And I don't just put it to sleep, but take it off the grid when not watching. But the used small sized TV in our bedroom? Naw. A good surge protector would cost roughly 40% of what I paid for the TV and I'm am sure it would be an exercise in frustration trying to collect anything from the manufacturer of a cheap surge protector. It is faster and easier to find another cheap used TV,

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Exactly!!
Jun 23, 2017 5:36PM PDT

I've paid a lot less for repair bills for my devices than all the power line conditioners and UPS that have failed me in the last 10 years. I finally realized it is cheaper to let my device fail and forget about buying expensive prevention devices that just go bad in no time. I'm talking about top brand names here, not just junk! It will take a lot to convince me to go back to trying those devices again.

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I want a UPS, but for now...
Jun 20, 2017 6:20PM PDT

I have a good surge protector. I do not leave my computer on when I am not going to be using it in the next few hours. Most important: I completely unplug all of my electronic equipment whenever I hear thunder. No exceptions. They do not get plugged back in again until I haven't heard thunder for at least 10 minutes, and then I check the satellite image on the news site to make sure. If thunderstorms are expected, I unplug my equipment before I go to bed or leave the house. I always unplug it if I am not coming back the same day, no matter what the weather is.

I may not be as protected as I would be with a UPS, but I do a very good job of avoiding serious damage. The only thing I have ever had to deal with was a destroyed ethernet port, which is very easy to fix.

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Surge arrestors ans Good area...
Jun 20, 2017 6:27PM PDT

This might sound ignorant, but my tech is protected by regular surge arrestors - and by living in an area with little to no thunderstorm activity and a stable grid. Add to that a local distribution grid that is essentially all underground, with almost zero exposure to the elements. Most incidents are when some knucklehead runs his car into a transformer...

Still, when I was in Texas, I actually never used any surge arrestors, and never had any issues. But my local grid was all underground there as well.

I realize many are not as fortunate, and live in areas with wild and violent weather, large industries that can play havoc on the grid etc. In such areas, the following would be my steps: 1) whole house surge arrestors, 2) UPSs (not the cheap switching ones, but on-line ones) for he pricey stuff, and 3) an electrical installation that has the cables running as close to each other as possible to reduce the effects of inductive spikes.

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Just passing through...
Jun 20, 2017 6:38PM PDT

All of you sound like you're speaking Greek to me but I did learn that UPS isn't just a postal service Happy Keep it up, everyone!

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Two stage protection
Jun 20, 2017 7:09PM PDT

First I have a 120/240 V whole home surge protector before the electrical panel. Then I have a UPS for each desktop computer. One large TV has an upscale surge protector and another has a Pure AV unit that acts like a surge protector as well as attempting to maintain steady voltage.

The problem I have found with UPS units is they don't last. Usually 4-6 years tops. So it can add up.

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Pay attention to your surge protector rating
Jun 20, 2017 8:03PM PDT

If you are living in area with few spikes you can probably rely on a surge protector. They are NOT all equal. For protecting a PC for example I see a lot of people spending twenty bucks for a surge protector that protects up to 30 joules. Power spikes often exceed that limit even in benign spike areas. For thirty bucks you can one get that protects you from 80 joules of excess power. Better, but not really enough either. Your best bet is to spend from fifty to sixty bucks and get a 1600 joule surge protector. That will protect you from small to medium spikes. Getting a whole house protector is very expensive and you will have to decide how much time and money you will spend having to replace everything in your home that gets fried. You can see how important your surge protector is. Those bargain protectors at Harbor Freight won't protect you from any surge. They cost ten bucks and often are sold for five bucks on sale. Electrical spikes are very damaging and spending sixty bucks to protect a five thousand dollar gaming system is a small price to replace everything, even if you do have insurance.

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Coupla things I haven't seen mentioned
Jun 20, 2017 11:11PM PDT

A couple of properties of inexpensive surge protectors I haven't seen mentioned.

First, they do "wear out." The nature of the protection circuitry in the inexpensive ones means that one big surge will ruin the protection ability, while still allowing power to go through. Thing is, that's also true of a lot of little surges. So, after a few years, your "surge protector" is really just a multi-plug extension cord.

Similarly, most consumer-level UPS systems produce a square wave on the output side. Your computer can handle that fine. But, to a surge protector, it looks like a continuous string of power surges. So, any surge protector plugged in downstream of a UPS should be marked in some way to indicate that it is no longer a protector. A simple method would be to tape a piece of red paper where the cord goes into the strip.

Finally, on a different subject, no consumer level UPS can handle a laser printer. The power drawn by one of these when they power up can be a few thousand watts. Equivalent to ten computers, or more. Therefore, your printer is going to need to be plugged in outside of your UPS.

My protection is a UPS for each computer, and for each Tivo+TV. My network hardware hangs off of one of the computer UPS'. My living room home theater and game consoles hang off of one of the Tivo UPS'. The rest of the electric devices are going to have to fend for themselves.

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UPS + Surge Protector
Jun 21, 2017 7:08AM PDT

Agreed. You should not waste money nor time using a surge protector along with a UPS system. The UPS system is a surge protector. Might as well just use a good quality power strip.
You have a very good setup. When my gf was alive, she had her own UPS 1500 for her PC and monitor but she didn't use shutdown software. I had my own that also covered the networking (cable + router) boxes but I am using the shutdown software at least on my PC. We have three Tivos. An older one just has surge protection. The two newer ones have a full UPS to themselves plus a power strip.
Something else to consider are the TVs and monitors: if you can't use a "graceful" shutdown software such as on a Tivo or non-computer device, you will need a way to shut the devices down yourself and that may not be easy without a TV for the Tivos or a computer monitor. The important thing is more what will happen when power comes back on since I've seen where it comes on and drops all within a second or two and then comes back on.

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Worn out surge protectors
Sep 27, 2017 3:37AM PDT

There are a coupla things I'm going to make myself start doing.

First, I'm going to start writing somewhere on the strip the date that I plugged it in. And, if it gets unplugged for some reason, how long it was plugged in. So that I can keep track of the really old ones that probably don't have any protection left in them.

Next, I'm going to start replacing one power strip every month. By the time I have replaced the last one, it'll probably be just about time to start over with the oldest, again. That way, it's not a huge expense nor a massive chore. If you live in a small place with only six or ten surge protectors then make yourself do it every second or third month. Set a reminder in your calendar. Don't fall out of the habit, or you may find your hardware fried, one day.

Drake Christensen

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Lesson Learned
Jun 21, 2017 4:31AM PDT

I currently use a combination of UPS devices (battery and surge protection) to protect 'ALL' my electronic equipment (PCs, receiver, HDTVs, disc players, etc.). I learned a valuable lesson (~$600 for the replacement of the amplifier in my subwoofer) because of a power surge. The equipment that was on surge protectors and UPS devices survived with no issues.

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You need a UPS
Jun 21, 2017 4:34AM PDT

You need a UPS. Try CyberPower or APC. Best Buy, Microcenter and Office Depot sell them. If you spend a little more money you can get one with "Automatic Voltage Regulation". I have 5 of these devices in my home. I protect my Router, Modem, NAS, Tivo DVR, Channel Master DVR and Computers. All I can tell you is this, my two DVR's both Tivo and Channel Master run 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Power surges were causing them to lock up and not record anything. I had to reset them by disconecting them for power for 10 seconds. Now I connected them to a UPS and problem solved. Most computers and tv's have sufficient surge protection so you are wasting money. But the Router, Modem, NAS and DVRs can malfunction every now and then. Get a UPS.

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We took a lightning hit the other day.
Jun 21, 2017 5:05AM PDT

We have the whole house protected from surges and lightning which cost a bit, ok a lot. We still lost the modem and my sisters ethernet is shot. The computer works fine but I can't install ethernet controllers drivers and AT&T had to replace the modem. Turns out there is a copper wire from outside to the modem. It still powered up and I could still use the internal network, but no internet till they replaced the modem. We still can't find where the lightning hit exactly and everything else in the house is fine.

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Get fios
Jun 21, 2017 9:33AM PDT

electric will travel along copper wire, but not optical cable.

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Not so fast
Jun 21, 2017 11:46AM PDT

Fios point of entry converts to copper, and is grounded to your electrical system (if it's lightning you are trying to protect from). Only a properly installed lightning arrestor can do that job. It diverts the "jolt" away from your house system by providing the path of least resistance to earth ground.

The typical utility spikes and sags are covered by the other types of remedies described in these postings.

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Not so fast yourself, LOL.
Jun 21, 2017 11:50AM PDT

I have optical all the way to the house with Verizon FIOS and the ONT is in my basement. All that comes through the wall is an fiber optic cable. I wanted the ugly ONT inside rather than messing up the outside look of my place. There are some places that do have fios only to the pole and then copper to the house, yet.

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Is Your ONT Plugged Into Power?
Jun 21, 2017 2:36PM PDT

Fiber won't help you there if there is smoke coming out of your ONT.

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the ONT runs from a battery
Jun 21, 2017 8:36PM PDT

And that battery has an in-built charger which in turn connects to house power. Lightning is no problem with the optical cable, but of course house power might be affected. Worse scenario might be the charger gets fried in the ONT.