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General discussion

How do I maximize security for XP even after support ends?

Sep 6, 2013 9:45AM PDT
Question:

How do I maximize security for XP even after support ends?


I would like very level heads to answer this request for me, please: How can I maximize security for XP when Microsoft stops supporting it in April 2014? That is a search term. Can someone help me with some answers. My system is Dell Dimension 3000 with XP, SP 3. I use MSE for security and also OnlineArmor Firewall with HIPS (free edition). I use MBAM as a second opinion as well as Hitman Pro, SuperAntiSpyware Free Edition. I am totally disabled and have used XP very comfortably, but I have no wish to buy more expensive hardware and software, thanks! Please try to answer within these terms: suggest ways to make XP very secure for along time. Many Thanks!

-- Submitted by: Robb T.

Discussion is locked

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Not running anti-virus
Sep 22, 2013 2:37PM PDT

Don't know how you stay safe from malware or hijack, Norton AV repo rts couple of attempted attacks every week on my computers, usually Russia, India/Pakistan or Korean searches for open ports (plus the usual stuff from Nigeria and phishing
Finding the reports or having automatic alert is easier with XP than VISTA although Ubuntu doesn't seem to need anything at present Cool

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not running anti virus/mal
Sep 22, 2013 6:43PM PDT

what sites are you using? I haven't had a single attack and phishing usually requires YOU to give info when prompted..why WOULD you give out info? like I said it's all common sense if you have good basic bs sniffer skills you prob. won't BE a victim.norton? really? that prog. is junk/bloatware I'd never run it it seems to be it's own virus! to hell with that. it makes your machine run slow it doesn't do anything except give a false sense of protection/security..naa wide open is the way to go just use your head when surfing that's going to be your bet defense.

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Not running anti-virus?
Sep 23, 2013 7:43AM PDT

How do you know Norton is 'bloatware' if you haven't used it?

What I was saying is there are multiple threats just because you are connected to the internet, the ONLY way to remove all threats is don't go online.

I have no idea what sites you visit or your ability to recognise malware attacks, plus, I very much doubt you are able to scan through millions of lines of code to find out where the problem 'you don't have' is
(or just various tracking sites and pop-ups)
Your fooling yourself if you think your computer is running 'flat out' without any form of anti-virus or malware removal software
Not sure how accurate the statistic is today, but, 'the average computer' is subject to about100 attacks in the first 3 mins of going online (or was it 30 seconds?)

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Re-Installing XP after April 2014
Sep 22, 2013 3:01PM PDT

When nothing else will work, I will scrub my hard drive clean (after backing everything up, of course), and re-install Windows XP. They make you either call in or log on to get the secret stuff to type in to make it run past the first few days. What will happen after April 2014 when you try to re-install Windows XP? Will they still give you a secret code to make it work?

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meh, just "upgrade" it already. they've made xp a dinosaur..
Sep 22, 2013 6:37PM PDT

why would anyone WANT to keep running xp after support ends? I know I know a few progs won't run in 7-8 or even vista but seriously? do you USE ANY of those progs? I doubt it.

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why run XP
Sep 23, 2013 7:46AM PDT

May be easier to ask, why run Win 8?
Oh yeah, because it's available
If I have to learn a new OS, I'll go Linux

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stop being cheap
Sep 22, 2013 6:46PM PDT

just get a newer op system.

file this question under "how can I remain cheap and safe" the only answer then is run the rig wide open and use your brain when surfing, win/win

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Last update?
Apr 12, 2014 1:01PM PDT

I had Windows update yesterday, 10th April 2014 but I didn't run update on the 8th
I still believe that if Microsoft couldn't fix XP after 13 yrs, there is absolutely no chance they will fix Win 7, 8 or 8.1 before it's obsolete.
Instead of telling people they are 'being cheap' how about telling people they are dumb using a 'broken' OS with no chance of it ever being fixed, just patched up AFTER THE FACT.
Reactive 'updates' instead of proactive systembuilding means I will not give Redmond any more money.
Linux is free, even if it is becoming 'bloatware'
It still has a long way to go to catch up with the amount of code in VISTA and just plain works for most people, particularly if your just checking e-mail and doing home accounts (plus, GIMP has about 90+% the functionality of software costing thousands of dollars)
I wouldn't worry too much for the next 6~10 months (in fact I'm not worried, but, I will be transferring bank and similar details to Linux based software)

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bloated?
Apr 13, 2014 12:25PM PDT
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Mint 16
Apr 13, 2014 2:36PM PDT

I'm using Ubuntu13.10 but have a copy of Mint 16 from Linux format, been thinking of trying it out, loosing 24,500 lines of code is a good enough reason for me Cool

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so far it's....
Apr 14, 2014 7:09AM PDT

...proving to be maybe the most stable system I've ever had, although I did have to change my ATI driver to fglrx instead of the defaulted fglrx-udates version. They did drop out one program I liked which was in 14, the "dconf Editor", but I added it back in. Also the Print Key needs changing from "mate-screenshot" to "mate-screenshot --intensive" which allows both a windowed and desktop capture, or a cropped out screen capture. The way I did that was to change the Screenshot setting in Keyboard Settings to Print Key + Z and which freed up the Print Key to assign to an Added keyboard shorcut which I set to the command "mate-screenshot --intensive". Those are my only piddly gripes about it, everything else is great.

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How do I maximize security for XP even after support ends?
Sep 24, 2013 6:06AM PDT

On April 8th, 2014 - - Microsoft will terminate Extended Support for Windows XP.

That means no more security updates.

And that could mean very big problems for a significant percentage of PC users.

According to data from Net Applications, Windows XP still maintains a nearly 39% hold on the desktop operating system market, second only to Windows 7 which has just under 45%.

Every other individual desktop operating system (including Windows Vista, Windows 8, and Mac OS X v10.8 Mountain Lion) has 5% or less of the desktop operating system market.

Operating system marketshare

Imagine, if you will, what could happen should bad guys decide to hold onto exploits, plotting to use them only after Microsoft stops releasing patches for Windows XP.

There's certainly the potential for a lot of havoc, for instance new internet-propagating worms that target Windows XP systems, or even just an increase in Internet Explorer 8 browser exploits that could open the doors wide for all manner of malware infections.

(Lest anyone think we're giving the bad guys ideas, we're certainly not the first to suggest that such things may be on the horizon. And frankly, these statements are rather obvious, and exploit developers aren't stupid.)

Will Microsoft extend support for Windows XP security updates? Perhaps, but it seems rather unlikely given that Microsoft has already extended the support deadline more than once. Windows XP is now three generations old, having been succeeded by Vista, Windows 7, and now Windows 8.

Moreover, Windows XP was originally released in October 2001. That means that by this time next year, XP will be 12.5 years old.

Rarely does any operating system continue to receive security patches for so many years. Numerous security improvements have been introduced in every subsequent version of Windows.

If you're concerned about security and you're still using Windows XP, it's time to move on.

Of course, it's easy to say that, but not every individual or company can afford to upgrade or replace their computers regularly.

Windows 8If you missed the window to upgrade to Windows 8 Pro for USD $39.99 (which ended January 31st), you'll now have to pay the significantly higher price of $199.99 (unless you're a qualifying student, in which case you can get it for $69.99) or $119.99 for the non-Pro edition.

If you don't think you can afford it, skip the Starbucks for a few months and set aside that money for a Windows upgrade.

Volume licensing for businesses can reduce the cost of Windows 8 Pro somewhat.

Even so, depending on the number of PCs a business wants to upgrade, plus the cost of RAM upgrades as may be needed for older systems, many companies will have to spend multiple thousands of dollars just to upgrade their Windows PCs from XP to 8, not to mention the time and other factors involved in undergoing a major organization-wide upgrade.

The alternative option of replacing all XP systems with brand new PCs would cost thousands of dollars more.

Regardless of the reasons you're still using Windows XP, if you haven't yet made plans to ditch it, you'll want to start making those plans now.

Windows XP isn't the only Microsoft product whose support ends a year from today.

Also on the chopping block are Microsoft Office 2003, Exchange Server 2003, Project Server 2003, Virtual PC 2004, and Content Management Server 2002. See Microsoft's full list of products whose support ends within the next 18 months.

Let's hope the end of Windows XP's Extended Support doesn't yield an all-out XPocalypse.

But just to be safe, it's probably wise for everyone to upgrade as many PCs as possible before April 8th arrives next year.

And while you're at it, make sure your friends, relatives, and local businesses know about the XP support deadline, too.

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i think this might help also
Aug 21, 2014 1:10AM PDT
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You can hold the fort for four more years....
Sep 19, 2014 7:26AM PDT
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This is old news
Sep 19, 2014 10:53AM PDT

This is old news. Plus it's technically piracy and even if it weren't, it won't cover all aspects of the consumer oriented XP and sooner or later one of those patches will have some seriously unwanted side-effects.

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No longer works?
Sep 20, 2014 2:24AM PDT

It may be 'old news' but if it doesn't work to 'save' XP, why has Microsoft put some sort of 'block' on saving the text and adding to registry?

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Pirates and patches....
Sep 23, 2014 3:57AM PDT

....in the land of one-eyed kings, there's just no
separating them.

We'll just have to limp along on our peg legs, with
our refurbished Windows 7 desktops and our "spare" Windows xp units until
Mr. Gates realizes that desktops are not going the way of the
dinosaur as soon as he thinks. "Tomorrows news" about Windows 9's supplanting
of Windows 8 will likely confirm this.

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Just playing devil's advocate
Sep 23, 2014 9:49AM PDT

Just playing devil's advocate, but shouldn't a private business be able to decide when they will stop making/supporting a product they made? And how exactly do you propose that Microsoft continue making money in order to stay in business if not selling new products?

Besides, what people don't understand is that the tile interface on Windows 8 is part of a much larger plan. One that Microsoft has been working on since probably around the Windows 98 days. At first they just had the DOS and NT Windows lines they wanted to converge into one, now they also have the Xbox and Windows Mobile lines to add to the mix. It's easy to play Monday Morning Quarterback with the benefit of hindsight to claim that if only you had been consulted or put in charge, everything would have gone off without a hitch, but the reality is that decisions had to be made 3-4 years ago about what direction to go with Windows 8. If you can predict future consumer trends in any given market with 100% accuracy 3-4 years out, you will be able to buy and sell Bill Gates several times over within a year with the kind of money you'll make consulting for companies on new product lines.

I have to wonder if the people who make comments like yours have even used Windows 8 for any extended period of time though. If you had used the OS for any extended period of time you'd know that after you set up shortcuts for your core programs, you only have to see the tile interface when you choose to. So why people chose that, of all things, to get their panties in such a bunch over just doesn't make any logical sense unless it's just a regurgitation of plagiarized talking points.

Platitudes like yours sound good until you stop to think about them. Then you realize that things are a lot more complex and there are no easy solutions.

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"...get their panties in such a bunch..."
Sep 23, 2014 1:03PM PDT

Now there's a platitude to die for.

Given Microsoft's earnings and the present "cartel" nature of the major
OS providers, no one needs to get anything in a bunch except the
learning curves of least resistance. Right now "easy solutions" are
provided by W7, Linux, and Windows xp. At least for desktop users.

I've seen enough of W8 to know that it's for portables. Only a glutton
for punishment is going to stretch his arm out on a desktop to
turn a page with his finger hundreds of times a day, instead of using
the mouse.

It would never occur to me to try and surpass Microsoft's predictive
powers. In the early 90's, I really thought Sony's minidisc format
would replace cassettes as the portable music format of choice.
Instead, mp3 and other devices did that. I stubbornly cleave to the md format
to this day because of its simple editing features.

And I will cleave to the OS that patronizes my intuition rather than
my admittedly shallow technical knowledge.

The dance between consumer and businessman is likened to a game of ping
pong.

Sometimes the businessman leads, sometimes the consumer.

Come 2020 when W7 support expires, I look forward to Microsoft
assuming the lead with Windows 9.

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Seen enough
Sep 24, 2014 10:09AM PDT

Seen enough of Windows 8, meaning you haven't actually used it, have you? I use it daily on a system with narry a touch screen in sight if you don't count my Android phone. The tile interface is a bit clunky with a mouse and keyboard, but it's perfectly usable. It's almost like plenty of people think that the old Windows interface is gone and replaced entirely with the tile interface which requires a touch screen. All of which is completely false. It's an option which you can easily ignore if it's not your thing. The same Windows 7 interface people love so much is still there and works pretty much exactly the same. The only differences are the resource sucking glass theme is gone (be honest, how often do you just sit and admire the window decorations in Windows? Rarely? Never?) as is the start menu. The latter you can either add back via third party programs like classic shell or you can realize this is one of the areas where the tile interface manages to improve upon the existing setup, even if more by accident than plan. The tile interface makes near infinite better use of screen space resulting in fewer clicks required to get to what you want on the average. I call anything that makes it faster and easier for me to find what I'm looking for a definite plus. Of course the search charm puts that to complete shame and is quite possibly the single greatest feature of Windows 8, more than making up for the idiotic name. You start typing the name of a document, system setting, program, etc and you'll get a list of potential matches. It does partial matches as well, and not just from the beginning of a file name either. If all you remember is that the file you're looking for has "bunt cake" in the name somewhere, say "my special bunt cake recipe.docx" for example, searching for "bunt cake" will find that file. It blows the start menu completely out of the water once you train yourself to use it.

I happen to fully agree on touch screens, but we're clearly in the minority. Companies are always looking for ways to reduce costs, so if more expensive touch enabled screens weren't selling, they wouldn't keep putting them into new units. I don't mind the idea as an option, in some situations it would be a real improvement over a mouse, but not enough that I'd be willing to pay extra for it. But as far back as Windows 3.1 could be used with touch screens. I remember in the late 80s or early 90s being at Disneyland or World (whichever one is in Florida) and they had Windows 3.1 machines set up with touch screens. Windows XP is where they really started pushing the idea of what would later be refined into the modern day tablet. The things people complain about were there even in the versions of the OS they claim to be so great because of the distinct lack of those features. Microsoft's idea was based more around the idea of using a stylus of some sort, not your finger.

Moving along, have you actually looked at Microsoft's full financial reportings or are you just going off a quick skimming of what some place like Cnet reported about their bottom line profits? Because more and more of Microsoft's revenues and profits are coming from their cloud services and less and less from selling things like Windows. You also need to know whether or not those profits are purely for their US operations or if it indicates profits from all divisions worldwide. A $2bn profit sounds pretty impressive if it's just the US market, but if we're talking the entire global operation only making $2bn profit, that's far less impressive. It's important to go at least a little beyond the surface

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Well, uhhh....guilty as charged.
Sep 24, 2014 4:46PM PDT

I haven't used it because that would require a new computer purchase or a
visit to an internet cafe or library that's as happy with W8 as you are.

Instead, I relied on web tutorials such as "Mum tries out Windows 8,"
etc., rejected W8 in favor of W7, and--surprise!--Microsoft served up
Windows 8.1 faster than we could say "Menu please!"

The world of the web is teeming with users like me and Mum. Our name
is Legion, and we walk to and fro upon the earth, and up and down
in it, adding our influence to the market, for better or for worse....
whether Bill Gates and seasoned users like it or not.

I assume the last paragraph, "Moving along..", is a reference to my
cartel remark. I should clarify that I was referring to the final
effect on the consumer, not the strict economic, conspiratorial
definition.

The cable companies, the internet providers, and the OS distributors
have no widespread competition, which inevitably limits consumer
choice, intentional or not.

And that just makes Mum and me more finicky.

If it quacks like a cartel, we treat it like one.

Nothing personal.

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Tutorials
Sep 25, 2014 12:12AM PDT

I found David Pogue's "Missing Manual" book on Windows 8 to be very helpful. Of course it set me back about 30 bucks, which you're not going to spend if you';re already dead set against Windows 8. There was one tutorial on the Web I found particularly useful but I can't find it now, must be bookmarked on a different computer. Needless to say, Microsoft's own tutorial is essentially useless.

I couldn't get through "Mum". It wasn't Diana. I understand and accept there are lots of users out there for whom reading email is a challenge. And her question "why do they keep changing everything?" rings true (but if tasked with setting up things to make it easier for her the first thing I would do is get rid of that stupid "welcome" screen).. I guess having worked in television I am less tolerant than average of shaky handheld, too close, poorly illuminated video.

I agree Microsoft's practices are monopolistic-ish and in fact they've been slapped for it a number of times. Nothing to do with revenues. Consumers do have a choice: Microsoft, Apple or Linux. But it's rather meaningless for users like Diana. She could have spent twice as much for an Apple and ended up with something no less confusing, contrary to popular belief.

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There were two W8 videos by Mum....
Sep 25, 2014 3:12AM PDT

....and her son should not have released the first one. Diana was ready to retire
for the evening and you can't do a user review when you're irritable.

The second was better, and more favorable to W8; but I still decided to pass.

$230.00 for a Walmart refurbished W7 unit with a less steep learning curve just
makes more sense while waiting for Microsoft and consumers to come to an
understanding.

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I rather think
Sep 25, 2014 10:59AM PDT

I rather think that you're seeking out a particular narrative and, quelle surprise, you find it.

Not sure something titled "Mum tries out Windows 8" can really be considered a tutorial for one. There's always a bit of a learning curve with something new. That's what I like. The mind is a muscle and if you don't use it, it atrophies. It's called neuro-plasticity and the basic concept is that the more you reinforce things, the stronger the neural connections in your brain become. Making you less likely to slip into a geriatric fog later on in life. You can't stop your mind from degrading with age, but you can most definitely ****** the process considerably.

In any event, if it takes you more than 10-15 minutes to figure out Windows 8 coming from pretty much any other version of Windows from Win95-7, to paraphrase the late Steve Jobs, "You're doing it wrong." There's the old saying "Jack of all trades, master of none." The people who make that comment do so to try and be derisory, but also don't realize it's not about absolute mastery of something. It's about learning enough that you can figure the rest out with the application of some logical thinking. I can seamlessly transition between using Android, iOS, Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. Not just that, I can adjust to dealing with different versions of each almost immediately. Some of it might just be a natural affinity with technology, but most of it is because I spent my time focusing on common elements to each one of these systems. I spent my time cultivating a lot of generic knowledge that I can apply to a wide variety of situations. I may have never seen this error or program before, but based on experiences with other errors or similar programs, can make a few assumptions that gives me a place to start. People who specialize heavily or exclusively in a narrow range of subjects often find themselves left behind when the world moves on.

Windows 8.1 is, for all intents and purposes, Windows 8 SP1. It came roughly a year after Windows 8 launched, so basically right on the same schedule as XP SP1, Vista SP1, Windows 7 SP1 and probably on down the line to the very first OS to get a SP release. Again, it's what appears to be a case of people conveniently forgetting even recent history because it would poke an aircraft carrier sized hole in their narrative.

Microsoft has been trying to get away from the whole service pack idea mostly for PR reasons. There's a certain negative connotation that goes along with the concept of a service pack, indicating that there were a number of significant flaws needing to be fixed. Of course the other way to look at it is that the company actually took the time and put in the effort to fix these issues. Plenty of companies will dump some product on the market and that's it or if you deal with enterprise level software like Oracle, SAP, or some of the major Unix vendors, you find out that any and all patches to the OS, security related or otherwise, are part of a separate service contract. So you just plunked down $50K for the software and maybe another $100K for the hardware to run it, now they're going to hit you for another $10K/year if you want patches. Those numbers are merely illustrative BTW.

If you think Microsoft is bad, you should look at how companies like HP and Oracle treat their enterprise customers. You think the airlines have the market cornered on treating people poorly, you haven't seen anything yet. Oracle is routinely sued for what amounts to out and out fraud when bidding on large contracts. If you look at the lawsuit the State of Oregon recently filed, that's just one in a long string of such lawsuits all with nearly identical stories. That is why Microsoft really took over the market. They had a vastly inferior product, it was untested, unproven, but Microsoft had a couple of important things going for them. It wasn't just that the initial sticker price was lower compared to the competition, it's that Microsoft included security updates for several years as part of the cost of the software. You buy any version of Windows and Microsoft commits itself to supporting it for roughly 10 years, gratis. Other products have differing lifecycles, but they're all very clearly published on Microsoft's website usually even before the software is available for purchase. Compare that against having to pay for the software and then pay an additional fee every year on top of that to get updates for it. No one else does this. Apple just supports things until it decides not to, and never bothers informing anyone when it stops. Even LTS Linux distributions are only for 5 years and then they only have one LTS release at a time. Every version of Windows is supported for roughly 10 years, sometimes longer. You might be able to pay Oracle or HP to support some more than 10-year old software, but you can bet they're going to keep jacking the price up over time.

Maybe it's because I've done some small amount of development work that I'm willing to cut Microsoft a bit more slack than most. I not only have some concept of how much work it is to build even the smallest of programs, I know just how unreasonable and ungrateful users can be. For every open source success story like Linux or KDE, there are probably 20 others where the developer just got tired of people sending them nasty emails demanding this or that new feature or bug be fixed and decided to just pack it in. Or maybe it's because I have enough knowledge and experience about some of the alternatives that I appreciate just how good we have it (relatively speaking) with Microsoft. Even at their height of Machiavellianist ways, they still didn't hold a candle to the likes of HP, Cisco and Oracle.

There was actually an interesting little bit I heard on the radio today about some new initiative in England to start teaching a lot of computer science type topics at all grade levels. If you listen to the story, towards the end you hear the person start describing how they teach young kids to break down a task to a point where you can program a computer to do it. It gives a pretty good sense of what it is to program. So many things that you absolutely take for granted or do without any level of conscious thought need to be explicitly programmed for a computer to do.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-25/reading-math-and-javascript-coding-now-mandatory-english-schools

That is what developers have to deal with and when you start to consider that, you can see how it is easy becomes to overlook something (i.e. a bug).

And I'm guessing you are just taking a bit of license, but Bill Gates hasn't really been directly involved with day to day operations at Microsoft for well over a decade. He's chairman of the board, so might help direct broad strategies for the company, but wouldn't necessarily be involved in day to day operations.

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Again, guilty as charged.
Sep 25, 2014 4:19PM PDT

I seek out the narrative that promises the simplest solution at the time and W7 was simplest.
At 65, I feel entitled to do that. Even in my youth I passed up computers altogether until
Windows and the mouse replaced DOS. My procrastination ended with XP, my first OS.
My computer tech kid brother advised sitting out Vista. And W8.

I'm afraid the geriatric fog has caught up with me. I'm still learning xp and W7. And Linux?
<div>I had all I could do to set up the xp/Linux dual partition on my xp machine in preparation
for April 8's termination of xp support. Frankly, it was nice to have yet another back up plan
when the xp extension-till-2019 was revealed, regardless of the ethics issue. Safety first!

By the way, I was taking a bit of license. Though I don't follow these things, I suspected
that Bill Gates had assumed a figurehead role in his own company. And I concede
that blaming him for Microsoft's day to day activities is like blaming the Queen of England
for her subjects' discontent, rather than parliament. So many fall guys, so little time....

When Windows 9 arrives, I'll be in my late 60's, pushing 70, and, with luck, will outlive
W7.

I can only hope the geriatric fog won't be too thick to make the W9 transition.
</div>

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Impressive
Sep 25, 2014 11:27PM PDT

Impressive. It's hard to find many Americans these days who are really even aware there is a Queen of England or that they have a Parliamentary system of government. I am, of course, assuming that you're on this side of the pond anyway since you quoted a price in dollars. It's considerably less impressive if you're a Brit. I frankly think we Yanks could do with a Parliamentary system. Our current system was set up to try and avoid all the time spent hashing out a coalition government, but since probably the mid-90s or so that hasn't worked out so well. Now we get held hostage by the tyranny of a small minority of extremists who don't understand that democracy is based on the principle of compromise, not extortion. Under a democratic system, the minority is there to temper the actions of the majority, not hold up the agenda of people who were elected by the majority of the people... And yes, I am aware that is a republic, not a democracy, but the US Congress functions as a democracy... Or at least is supposed to.

But age isn't an excuse, it's a cop-out. I don't care if you're pushing 100, as long as you're breathing you can still learn. The key is to focus on things that are similar. Very little has changed about the Windows interface, or really ANY computer interface, since the GUI was invented back in the 1970s. You can look at old videos or photos of the original GUI as developed by Xerox and find that the more things change the more they stay the same. The last "major" change to the look and feel of Windows was the Windows 3.1 to Windows95 transition. Even that wasn't quite as major as it might seem at first blush. You still have the basic concept of windows, icons, etc. The taskbar was a good improvement over the old Alt-Tab system, but the start menu was a serious step backwards from the old Program Manager method. But even looking closer, the only thing that really changed about windows was that now there was a close button on the right and the minimize and maximize buttons became these confusing looking icons instead of the simple up and down arrows from before.

Very little has changed since Windows 95. You can go all the way up to Windows 8.1 and you still have the same button arrangement, the taskbar was upgraded somewhat in Windows 7 to include functionality shamelessly stolen from Mac OS X and NeXTStep, but it still functions in almost exactly the same way as before.

I see that as a problem. There's been massive stagnation in the UI development world. For all their talk of how innovative they are, neither Apple or Microsoft is really willing to push the envelope and try something new. Even Linux and/or the open source community, where they aren't beholden to shareholders and the market, just shamelessly apes whatever Apple and Microsoft are doing. Where else do you have a perfect little laboratory to try out all kinds of whacky ideas and see what works? But for all the anti-establishment rhetoric you hear coming from the open source community, they are completely dependent upon suckling at the teat of Apple and Microsoft. Any time someone tries something a little different, they're practically chased out of town, complete with pitchforks and torches.

But honestly, whatever your age, if you figured out XP you should be able to figure out 8 in a few minutes. The trick is to not let superficial things distract you. Mac users are infamous for melodramatic performances if something moves so much as a single pixel. That is a perfect example of what you should strive to avoid. Don't memorize specifics, learn the fundamental principles. The former method leaves you completely helpless and spending inordinate amounts of time relearning everything from scratch. The later method gives you a large collection of generic building blocks that you can arrange to suit whatever comes before you.

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But age isn't an excuse, it's a cop-out....
Sep 26, 2014 5:06AM PDT

O-h-h kay-y-y...so many cop outs, so little time.

And here's another: all 3 of my computers were refurbished when I got them. It is unlikely I will ever purchase a brand new computer. Even if I later spring for a W9 desktop, it will probably be used. And I don't anticipate ever buying a tablet or using a phone for internet.

Mum confirms in the second W8 video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je1M_WrZEOk , that W8 is better suited to tablets, and rumours I've read suggest that there may be 3 different versions of W9 for desktops, tablets, and, I presume, phones.


Mum and I aren't looking for "excuses"; we're looking to maintain our stride. The OS first timer videos are not so much tutorials on the operating system as they are tutorials on the task of adjusting to new options while maintaining our stride.


"Slow" and "lazy' learners are part of the market that MS must accommodate, for the time being. And I remind you: our name is Legion.


I'll just wait and learn the desktop version of W9.

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Cop-Out yep
Sep 26, 2014 9:52AM PDT

Totally agree with what your saying, even with it's 'faults' XP was the last system I liked I've given this a lot of thought but only recently realised, unless your a programmer, (maybe even then?) everything from VISTA onwards treats you like an utter moron.
Few days ago I changed router password, Linux Mint, no problem, just about instant fix, Vista, all sorts of issues, (still drops wireless connection for no reason) Win 7 - OMG about 4 hrs screwing around with it, wouldn't find router, everyone else's fault except Microsoft, unable to find any way to manually check what was happening (I'm sure there is some way of doing it, I just don't know how) The automatic 'fixes' are a total waste of time
I haven't even tried wife's 8.1, not looking forward to that at all

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Why?
Sep 26, 2014 10:07AM PDT

Why? Seriously. I don't mean this as a pejorative, but why should the rest of us stand around twiddling our thumbs just because a few people like you can't keep up? How does that in any way benefit society? Why should we always pander to the lowest common denominator? Why should Microsoft or any other company conform to your pace?

Again, a serious philosophical question, not a pejorative. Feel free to just reply based off the root post if you like.

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QM
Sep 26, 2014 4:43AM PDT

" if it takes you more than 10-15 minutes to figure out Windows 8 coming from pretty much any other version of Windows from Win95-7, to paraphrase the late Steve Jobs, You're doing it wrong. "

Kind of the reverse of a statement Neils Bohr made about quantum mechanics: "If you're not confused, you don't understand it".