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General discussion

How Best to Arhive MiniDV Videos

Jan 13, 2010 10:58AM PST

Hello all.

I have a Sony mini dv, DCR HC62 along with some mini dvs from past camcorders. In the next couple of years I would like to change camcorder formats, maybe solid state so I would like to get all of my mini dvs changed into soft copy, video files. I don?t care what format, I just want them to be high quality. Once my camcorder goes, these files will be all that I have since I will not be able to play the mini dvs any longer. I am, however, having a hell of time getting this done. The files that I have from the Firewire download via MS Movie Maker are uncompressed and HUGE 10-12 gigs each, so big, I cannot even play them. So, I need to do something about encoding them or getting them in some other format. A friend suggested that I use WINFF to do this but all of the final videos don?t look as nice as my original video. They are very grainy. I have tried every possible video format for the final file but none look as nice as original from the camcorder. All of this leaves me at a total loss on how to proceed. I need to get these videos in the best possible format but in their current state I cannot even play them on my computer due to the current file size. I have a duo core 2, Win Vista 32 with 4 gigs of ram. With this in mind I have the following questions.
1.What is the best way for me to proceed, what is the best way/format for me to download (maybe not just convert) these videos so as to keep my current quality but reduce the size.
2.What program is best/cheapest to get this done, I am really not looking to edit these videos.
3.At this point, am I just better off seeing how much someone would charge me to get this done? I have been out of work for awhile and have more time than money but I need to get this done.
4.Any other input that would be helpful
5.Last thing, any thoughts about the mini dv format going away

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Discussion is locked

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The "best" way?
Jan 13, 2010 12:03PM PST

Leave them on the miniDV tape. This would be the least compressed, original video footage. When you encode or compress them, you are discarding video data and reducing the video quality. Yes, 60 minutes of standard definition video uses 12-14 gig of computer hard drive space - which you have learned. (For what it is worth, HDV format high definition video uses 44 gig per 63 minutes of video imported to the computer.) This - is one of the many reasons the professionals continue to use miniDV tape. Cheap long-term, archive, storage... store the tapes in a cool, dry place. There are several suggestions about how to handle these tapes sprinkled around the web.

An alternative would be to import them at highest quality - generally as DV or HDV format into a RAID1 or better hard drive array. The reason you need RAID1 is this is a multi-hard drive format. The hard drives are mirrored so both have the same data. Since hard drives are electromechanical, they can break. The chances of both breaking at the same time are slim - one breaks, the other has the data. Replace the broken drive, the data from the operational drive is copied over... There are several NAS (Networked Attached Storage) systems for home and small office that can do this. Check the NetGear ReadyNAS Duo, Buffalo LinkStation systems, D-Link DNS-321 enclosure (you need to add the drives), Promise 2-bay RAID system (you need to add the drives) - there are several others.

Most large companies do not use hard disc drives for data archival - back up, yes - that is for short term... but not archive. Digital tape continues to be a fine long term storage media.

As for miniDV tape "going away"... they same was said for VHS about 15 years ago, as I recall. Yet, today, I can walk into a CVS or Fry's Electronics - among many other brick/mortar retailers and online - and find VHS tapes and players available.

Since the professionals continue to use primarily miniDV tape based gear, it will be around for many years.

Somehow, consumers are convinced that hard drive and flash memory storage is somehow "better" than digital tape. And in this context, they are not. And no, I do not recommend investing in a BluRay burner for the purpose of archiving video. Optical media has its own share of problems - but a single BluRay disc at 25 gig would be more than enough space to write non-compressed video from a full miniDV tape.

Perhaps you can ask the same question in 5-10 years and maybe there will be a more viable alternative. At this point, I cannot suggest one that is "better" than the original source miniDV tape.

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Long live minidv
Jan 16, 2010 9:17PM PST

First, don't worry about minidv leaving anytime soon. I had many minidv pro cameras over the past 2 years (wedding videography as a hobby). Now that I moved to HiDef, I chose to stick with the minidv tape based HiDef cameras (Canon HV30). Mini DV , in my opinion I think is best for casual users like you and myself. I refuse to buy a SD, Flash, Hard Drive based camcorder because the archiving options are even more limited (store on computer hard drive or burn to DVD). There are soooooooo many people trying to figure out what to do with their family video, and don't know what to do because their HD are full, or can't watch the videos due to large file sizes. Your in the same situation but you already have 1 option they don't, original is on tape.
Ok for Achiving options:
1. Keep your tapes
2. Since you have firewire, do you already have a console DVD player/recorder for your TV? I have one with firewire import that allows me to plug my camera into it and record my video to DVD at great quality (it has 3 quality setting). The DVD player/recorder (upconverter for hd tv)was bought at Walmart under $100.
3. Use your computer to burn DVD. I've really wouldn't worry about the program, I would just render at the settings setup for regular DVD quality. Yes you will lose quality due to converting DV to DVD (but is it reaaaaalllllly that bad?) believe me, quality is very important to me also, but I'm fine with the DVD's I created with basic programs.
* Do you have a SD or HD TV? The DVD player that upconvert to HD show great results to view your made DVDs on HD TV.
4. If you want to achive and view the videos "all-in-one". My solultion is to buy a usb external hardrive (1 TB under $100, 1.5TB around $130-$150 @ BestBuy) and a WDTV Media Player (around $99 at Best Buy. There are other less $$$ media players out there, but this is the one I have because it also plays HDV files).
You just tranfer your files to the external HD. Plug the HD into media player (this thing is small, a little bigger than a pack of index cards). Then plug player in the back of tv. No lost of quality, because your playing the original file. Like I said, there are other media players out there. On my external HD, I have all my ripped DVDs and home videos on it.

I know you said you have my time than money, so some of the options might not be for you, at this time. But again, don't feel rushed about getting video off of you tapes. I would continue to burn all of your video's onto DVD's using the software you have (use settings for DVDs), yes you will loose quality, but I can't imagine it being horrible unless your viewing on a HDTV without a uprez dvd player.
I just burned a DVD using the MS movie maker, and it turned out fine. I'm happy withe the quality. Have you tried to burn a DVd with the Movie Maker?
I hope I was able to help, a little.

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Transfer Mini DV question
Feb 24, 2012 5:00AM PST

I have some mini DV footage that still needs to get transferred to the computer. Since my mini DV camcorder was ripped off I need to buy a new one just to transfer the footage. I don't need something really great since I now take my video with my Canon 550D. So here are my questions: Does the quality of the transfer depend on the original tape and nothing else? Can the quality of the transfer go down if I get a cheaper camcorder? In other words, do the heads have to read the video image and then convert it to digital, or is the transfer all digital and nothing depends on the head quality for transfer purposes? In addition, the video I have was taken almost ten years ago at 640x480 on a JVC camcorder. If I get a used camcorder that has higher resolution will it still work for transfer purposes on my lower rez tapes? I want to do this at home, so I don't want to take them to a place to get transferred. They are one-of-a-kind tapes, and I simply cannot take the chance that they would get damaged or lost.

Thanks In advance,

Lindsay

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Only my thoughts.
Feb 24, 2012 5:07AM PST

1. To protect the content, be sure to move the WRITE PROTECT SWITCH to "Protect". Noted widely:
http://www.thedvshow.com/minidv-tape-tips/

2. Sadly the miniDV camcorder plays a factor in quality. I'd try for the same model at least.
Bob

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High rez and low rez
Feb 25, 2012 1:49AM PST

Okay, I know this might sound like a stupid question, but if I buy a newer camcorder with better resolution will my standard rez tapes transfer (playback) fine? I can't find the used one I had in working order. It was bought 12 years ago, so I will probably buy a newer (used) one.

Thanks

Lindsay

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And that IS the real question.
Feb 25, 2012 2:03AM PST

I've seen it work and I've seen it not work. Because there is no guarantee the answer is try it and be sure of the return policy (such as Amazon.)

Hopefully you picked up how to write protect the media so it can't be damaged by a mistake of recording over.
Bob

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I will by a standard def camcorder
Feb 25, 2012 7:21AM PST

Yes, I have all my tapes write protected—thanks!

I think I am going to buy a used Sony mini dv that was made in 2003, so it is in standard def. That way I don't think I will have any issues hopefully.
Lindsay

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Re: transferring
Feb 24, 2012 5:10AM PST

The movie is digitally stored and digitally transferred to the PC, without losses. That doesn't depend on the quality of the lens or the software that's used when recording.

But it could be that some software is used for compression of the output to another format and that software might be different on different camcorders. But I'd say that is a minor factor.

And a tip: it might be cheaper to rent a camcorder for a week, then to buy a new one. An alternative might be to buy a used one and try to sell it afterwards again .

Kees

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5 Years Later
May 2, 2015 1:17AM PDT

So 5 years later I am mostly using my gopro and a totally digital camcorder and have not touched my mini dvs in many years. I am finally at the point where I need to do something with my old tapes before my camcorder breaks and I am totally stuck. I checked out Amazon and they don't seem to sell them anymore, only used or old models.

With advances in technology I am wondering if the above suggestion still apply? Is the WDTV Media Player still the best option? With memory so cheap I would ideally like to convert the content of all of the tapes to electronic files. I don't like the idea of the DVDs due to concerns over scratches, theft etc. I have about 60 tapes. I just don't know the best program, file format or process to do this without any loss in quality. I appreciate any thoughts.

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I'd start a new discussion.
May 2, 2015 1:27AM PDT

Update. I added the WDTV Live at home and while it's great I worry about your comment on theft. Moving to a HDD may be a bad idea for you as you are not secure yet. Bad folk would swipe the usual HDD and flatscreen and leave tapes behind since they are worthless.
Bob

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It may come down to two things...
May 7, 2015 11:49PM PDT

Your budget and what you want to keep.

I too have lots of digital tape in boxes in a cool, dry, secure, place. I have not access many in over 10 years, though I recently needed some old clips from one specific tape, so went through several before finding the right one, connected firewire to the camcorder & computer and imported.

If you want ALL the video on the 60 tapes and if all 60 tapes are full with 60 minutes of video on each tape, that is 360 hours of video... x 13.5 gig per 60 minutes of imported video suitable for editing, that 13.5 per hour x 360 hours = 4,860 gig... or nearly 5 terabytes of data. Chances are high the full 60 minutes are not used on each tape. The 13.5 gig per hour is for standard definition, DV format video that is uncompressed - there is some compression applied when in its DV format on the digital tape. This is for budgeting...

Now that we know how much, we need to understand the media that can handle that much data. Single layer DVDs hold up to 4.6 gig; double layer DVDs hold up to 8.5 gig; Blue Ray optical blanks hold up to 50 gig... so for the moment, the storage of choice appears to be a 6 terabyte external drive. You pointed to the issues about scratches on the optical media - if store properly and not handled, they can't get scratches, but loading them up with the amount of data you're talking about might be a bit challenging. These discs will not playback on a regular DVD player.

Because they are electromechanical, having the data on a single hard drive drive is dangerous. A drive failure for different reasons can result result in loss of data. Best practice is to have the data on at least two drives, then store then separately. I don't know what the storage life is for SSD drives, but I have not seen them in 6 TB sizes, so plan accordingly for multiples to hold all that you have.

There are RAID1 storage enclosures available. They have two drive bays. Populate each bay with a 6 TB drive, put the drive enclosure setting to RAID1 and each time data is sent to be written to the "drive", both drives get the same information. When the project is done, remove the drives, place them is a little airtight case with a desiccant pack and store one in one place and one in another... like a safety deposit box...

Or, if you can find a service provider, they can catalog and store the data for you for a fee. This is not very likely as it is usually a business type off-site data storage recovery company and I don't think they have "residential" services.

Alternately, you can find a service provider that will charge you for 5 TB of cloud storage, there may be charges from your ISP - it depends on how much data you upload in any given month... and hope they are around in 10, 20 or 50 years... That said, you'll probably need to have a couple of hard drive enclosures available... but since we don't know what connectivity will be around in the future, it is difficult to plan. Remember, in the last 10 years, we've had Thunderbolt, SATA, USB 1-2-3, serial, parallel, SCSI and a few others.

Now that we know how we're going to store the data, we can look at methods of getting the data on to the storage media... The *best* method is to connect the camcorder's DV port to the computer's firewire port and import. The resulting imported video file should be in the decompressed DV format (your word, "lossless"). There are lots of other methods... most will not be "lossless".

If you want playback on a DVD player, then conversion to VOB format takes on a whole different dimension, means use of VERY compressed VOB file format (hence, lots of loss) and I understand why your concern for scratches. You very well may need two different storage media... one for LONG term (everything on the tapes - unedited) and one for day-to-day (which would also include editing out stuff you don't want before burning the DVD playable disc)...

There are more permutations, but I don't have enough information from you on what your expectation is for "archive". Generally, that means long term storage - not regular use.