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General discussion

Hooking up a new power supply

Aug 23, 2004 8:18AM PDT

Before I took the old one out, I color coordinated etc. It looks like I have the new one in right but the monitor, though it has power, won't start up. I must be missing something. I have the main plugged into the motherboard, one in the CD Rom, one in the hard drive and a little one in the floppy drive. Nothing in the modem card. Can anyone surmise from what little I've told you, what I need to do?

Thanx, I hope! Valerie

Discussion is locked

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Re: "verifying DMI pool data"
Sep 13, 2004 9:43AM PDT

I think I've lost just about everything on the PC. I will, however do as you suggest. What should I expect when I do?

Thanks. Val

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What to expect.
Sep 13, 2004 9:50AM PDT

With the IDE devices unplugged, the diskette should boot if you have a good diskette with DOS on it and the BIOS set to boot the diskette.

You can then test one IDE device at a time to see if the error returns.

Bob

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Re: What to expect.
Sep 14, 2004 12:53AM PDT

I did that Bob. The message about DMI pool data disappeared as I re-attached each device. I'm left now with a message which says floppy disk drive failure and hard drive failure. I wasn't getting these notices before. I went back to make sure everything was securely attached, it was! As much as I appreciate you guys for you endurance, I think I should write this one off. Thank you so much for your help. I'll be back!

Val

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Probably as simple as the cables
Sep 14, 2004 1:47AM PDT

are put on backwards or for the floppy missing an entire line of pins or off to one side by a pair of pins. The stripe on the edge of the ribbon cable indicates where pin 1 is. The secret is to know which pin in the device is pin one.

Don't give up You are really at the point where you should be working with one person [or one step by step train of actions] [not demeaning anyone] but there are times when too many cooks spoil the broth and you end up getting conflicting guidance and thus confusion. You are certainly making progress and at least surrounding the problem [if one actually exists, other than getting things back together correctly].

Disconnect the hard drive and solve the floppy first. Almost always the cable on backwards or not all pins engaged. I usually hook up the floppy by missing a row of pins LOL. Now when building a computer I hook up the floppy ribbon cable outside the computer [fed through the opening] and then slide the floppy in.

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My statement re- too many cooks
Sep 14, 2004 2:48AM PDT

is incorrect. I meant to say that if the thread is kept in one continous line of actions and answers it is easier to follow. Each post indented under the previous. Yes every now and then one must start a new line to move the indent all the way to the left, but the train of troubleshooting should be post, reply/results post, reply/results et al.

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Re: Probably as simple as the cables
Sep 14, 2004 4:16AM PDT

Thanks Ray. I now have the floppy in working order. I still get a message that the hard disk has failed. I can, however get an A prompt again. I find this encouraging. I have to ask a couple of questions. The CDRom is still blinking but the drawer won't open. The new video card works. The floppy works. I don't care about the sound one way or the other. Do you thinks it's worth investing in a 'cheapy' maybe refurbished hard drive to test that? Bill, I tried your suggestions for testing the mobo etc., and it wouldn't accept any of those things??????????
Again, I thank you all. One of these days I'm going to be able to build me a computer from scratch with the knowledge you are all imparting! Any more suggestions now that we've gotten this far?

Val

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Exactly how are you getting the message that the
Sep 14, 2004 4:49AM PDT

hard disk has failed???

BTW when you want to build a computer post here. Myself and many others will be happy to give you step by step for as long as it takes from picking the components on up.

Do you know how to get into the BIOS?? Does the hard drive get seen there???

I will re-read thius thread to refresh my mind why you replaced the PS and what steps may have given the hard drive problem [hope that you told us everything.]

Give us the exact message telling that the hard drive has failed.

What make is it?? Most mfr's can give you a download to put on a floppy that will test the drive. How old is it. Until a year or so ago they came with 3 Year warranties and the good drive mfr's honored it with no hassle.

Assuming that the hard drive is the C drive, from the A prompt type C: and hit enter to get the C prompt then type dir [space]/p to see the drive conents one page at a time. What message do you get??

Re the CD drive, first properly connected??????
Next in My Computer right click on the CD and click eject to see it that opens the drawer. Sometimes a software glitch can keep the drawer closed.

The other thing to do with power off is to straighten out a paper clip and insert it into the hole in the front of the drive to release the door [doesn't necessarily fix anything but should free the door up] LOL.

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Re-read the thread. Billzhillz has probably
Sep 14, 2004 5:34AM PDT

already covered the hard drive stuff very well.

Seems that the DMI problem threw you off track.

Re the hard drive, now maybe go back to Bills post ure using FDISK using the boot floppy and reporting results.

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Re: Hooking up a new power supply 2nd posting
Sep 14, 2004 6:07AM PDT

I hope I did this right! Back to the problem! I did do what Bill told me to. I can't get a C prompt no matter what. I tried doing what he said after an A prompt and it didn't recognize those instructions. In reply to yours Ray. The message was, Primary master hard disk failure. Do you mean what kind of hard drive do I have? It is a Maxtor and I do have a disk. As I said, I can't get a C prompt to follows other instructions I stuck a paper clip in the CDROM with no results. Now, here is something interesting: I found that the BIOS are listing my hard drive as second primary master and my CDRom as primary slave. I don't know if it'll help but here is what it says about my hard drive: Second parimary master/size 8447/cyls 1027/head 255/ precomp 0/land z 16382/sector 63/LBA.

I've fooled around trying to fix all that and am now back to "verifying pool data". "The further I go, the behinder I get!" I don't really understand BIOS very much!

What now?

Val

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Re: Hooking up a new power supply 2nd posting
Sep 14, 2004 6:26AM PDT

Val

On the motherboard are two IDE connectors. One will be marked "primary" (Primary IDE channel should be close to the edge of the M/B ), the other "secondary". From your post it appears they are crossed. It also appears that the jumpers are set to able commect.

Primary IDE ribbon should go to the H/D. Secondary IDE channel to the CD-ROM. If you only have one cable, from the primary IDE channel the middle connector will go to the CD and the end connector to the H/D.

Re-set your cables and attempt boot w/o boot disk. If the MBR is not damaged your system will boot. If not go back to my previous post on the H/D's.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/bios/
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf.htm

Bill
.

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The terminology
Sep 14, 2004 6:59AM PDT

makes little sense. There are two IDE ports each can have a Master and a Slave device hooked to it.

The term primary applies only to one IDE port. The termSecondary applies to the other IDE port. Bill is probably saying similar.

Thus you can have a Primary Master or a Secondary Master. No second primary Master.

Not sure what type of computer you have. If it is a DELL or COMPAQ or such the BIOS is very non standard.

In the first screen of the BIOS [if you only have two drives, HD and CD and both on the same cable] For the first IDE set the Master to AUTO [no parameters, that way the system finds it at each boot] Also set the slave to auto [it will detect the CD Drive]

For the secondary IDE in the BIOS set them to NONE [if in fact there is no drive connected to that cable [can remove the cable ].

Digression, CD drives fail and they are very inexpensive.

Then per Bill make sure that you don't have the IDE cables reversed such that the secondary IDE port is feeding the drives. Sure sounds possible.

One other issue to consider is the jumpering of the drives, BUT if the system worked fine before the power outage, the jumpers should be fine.

Think Bill has the right idea, the IDE cables are switched or THE one IDE cable is on the wrong mobo connector. You probably have it fixed by now. LOL

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Re: The terminology
Sep 14, 2004 7:11AM PDT

I don't know about you guys but I'm brain dead! I know you've had more to deal with than just me!! I have printed all of the info you have given me and I'm going to mull over all of that and take a break. It does sound very logical about the cables being mixed. I unplugged the hard drive and decided to concentrate on the CDROM first. That didn't work first time around and I'm giving up until tomorrow when my brain works again!

Until then, I bid you goodnight!

Val

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Last two words in Billz
Sep 14, 2004 7:06AM PDT

first paragraph were intended to be "Cable Select"

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Re: Last two words in Billz
Sep 14, 2004 7:11AM PDT

Ray,

You are correct and thanks for clarifying.

Bill
.

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Re: Last two words in Billz
Sep 15, 2004 4:30AM PDT

Hi guys. I've been fooling around with the PC and trying your suggestions and this is what I have so far. I put everything on auto as you suggested Ray. I can boot up and and notice that these are recognized. Primary master-non. Primary slave-CDROM. The hard drive is listed as second master. I can get to and A prompt and change that to C prompt. I can't however test the mobo as Bill suggested. I might be typing the wrong thing. Here is how I understood your instructions Bill. "At the c:\ prompt type A: -> press enter. It won't let me do that. Says it's abad command. Also from the A prompt, I typed fdisk/MBR -> Same thing - bad command. Drawer to CDROM still won't open and can't get into windows. Ray, in one post you asked me to do the following. Get to a C prompt and type dir /p I did that and it said "Invalid media type reading drive C. Abort, Retry, Fail.

I think that covers it.

I anxiously await your advice.

Thanks. Val

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One thing at a time.
Sep 15, 2004 4:53AM PDT

We must get around the listing of the hard drive as second Master. {I'll let Bill take care of his, you have something backwards there].

For the CD door to open it was to be with power off and push the paper clip in very firmly to release the drawer.[really, ignore this until the hard drive issue is resolved]

I assume in your post "Primary Master non" should be none??? Also second Master is NOT secondary Master???

Lets talk about the ribbon IDE cable(s). Ignore the floppy ribbon cables.

How many IDE ribbon cables do you have in the computer.

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While awaiting Bill
Sep 15, 2004 5:03AM PDT

You said that you got to a C prompt from the A prompt. This means that it sees a drive or it would have said invalid device .

When at the C prompt type Dir /p [note the space between the Dir and the slash.]. The / is known as a switch and the p says to show the data one page at a time. Don't use the /p and it'll scrool through all of the files to the last page of files [no big deal, because it would be good news that you have a hard drive. LOL].

Also note that you are in DOS at this point and DOS does not differentiate between upper and lower case letters, so I I capitalize a letter, it is meaningless.

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Ignore my last post re while awaiting Bill
Sep 15, 2004 5:09AM PDT

YOU already told me. Another senior moment. I'm probably old enough to be at least your Grandfather.

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Re: Ignore my last post re while awaiting Bill
Sep 15, 2004 5:18AM PDT

I don't think so! I have another not-so-good thing to add. The hard drive is now making noises like clickety-clickety over and over. That surely must mean it's kaput. In answer to your other questions. It's primary master none. and secondary master recognized. There are two ribbons besides the floppy one which you told me to ignore.

I really feel like I'm wasting your time as much as I appreciate it.

Val

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I've been retired since 1993. I work 2 days
Sep 15, 2004 5:26AM PDT

a week for a total of 10 to 12 hours as Treasurer of s small Township in NE PA. I have beaucoup time, and enjoy TRYING to help.

The fact that you have two IDE Ribbon cables [and you only have a CD drive and a hard drive?????] gives the answer The hard drive and CD are on different controllers and you have the cables reversed at the mobo. reverse them.

Yes the clicking of the drive is not good news but we'll see.

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Re: I've been retired since 1993. I work 2 days
Sep 15, 2004 5:32AM PDT

I have tried those cables every which away around but I'll try again. I tightened the cables and the hard drive is not making any noise now. The boot up also tells me that I have a Maxtor as secondary master! That's a first. I'll see about turning those cables around and get back to you.

Val (Too old for this kind of stress!)

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By reversed, I actully mean to
Sep 15, 2004 6:03AM PDT

exchange which connector is connected to each mobo IDE port [comnnector].

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Re: By reversed, I actully mean to
Sep 15, 2004 6:14AM PDT

This is over my head Ray. Do you want me to change the connectors that are plugged into the mobo itself?

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(NT) (NT) YES!!!
Sep 15, 2004 7:11AM PDT
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Something else. In the BIOS for the drive area.
Sep 15, 2004 5:20AM PDT

put in NONE for both the Master and Slave for the secondary controller. Then save and exit. Does the screen still show a second master???

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Ignore this one IF
Sep 15, 2004 5:55AM PDT

exchanging the IDE connectors at the mobo fixes the drive identifications.

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Re: Ignore this one IF
Sep 15, 2004 6:35AM PDT

Ray, I finally saw which was the primary cable and it was the one I wasn't using! It is changed and the PC now recognizes the hard drive as the master. Now, there is another 'plug in thinggie' on that cable which seems to be the only one which will reach the CDROM. Can I be mistaken in that? The last thing I see now in the dos mode is update success and that's as far as it goes. Feeling better...............

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Please clarify. Are the hard drive AND the
Sep 15, 2004 7:09AM PDT

CD drive both on the same IDE ribbon cable.

Let's explain the IDE ribbon cables. Each cable has 3 connectors[thingies???] One connects to the mobo. The other end connects to a Drive, the middle one also can be connected to a drive. [drives can be called IDE, ATA, ATAPI, don't get too confused. ATAPI is basically anything other than a Hard Disk Drive HDD].

The newer cables have been standardized and color coded. They are mostly the new 80 conductor cables same 40 pin connectors, just more wires of smaller diameter. The one that attaches to the mobo has more space between it and the middle connector, than from the middle to the other end.

They are designed to use CL [Cable Select jumpering on the drive, rather than having to set Master and slave. The end connector is always the Master and the middle is alwys the slave [when using CS jumper setting on the drives] Some of this is in preparation for when you build a new computer some day.

It turns out that the design stinks in a way, since the Master is usually a hard drive and the Slave could be a CD, but hard drives are usually mounted below the CD and thus the middle connector won't reach the CD [stupid]. I ususally mount the hard drive above the CD and then it works out, but must get an adapter to put the 3 1/2 inchhard drive in the 5 1/4 space.

In your case, if you only have two drives and don't mind the clutter of two ribbon cables, simply set the jumpers on the hard drive as Master and hook it up to the end of the Primary IDE ribbon. Then change the jumper on the CD to Master and hook it up to the end of the other IDE Ribbon cable. Then both drives are set up as Master. Check back if you decide to add more drives.

If you can use the Primary IDE ribbon cable to connect to both the hard drive and the CD then you can get rid of the second cable until later.

If the only way you can do that is to put the hard drive on the middle connector and the CD on the end, that'll be fine EXCEPT that you then CANNOT use cable select. Just set the Hard drive jumpers to Master and leave the CD as slave as it is now.

Probably confusing you with too much info.

Tell me what you want to do re the number of ribbon cables and I'll address that alone.

BTW Give Bill credit for pointing out that the cables were reversed a number of posts earlier.

Just rack it all up to learning.

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(NT) (NT) Where is it seeing the CD drive??? Primary or secondar
Sep 15, 2004 7:14AM PDT
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Re: (NT) Where is it seeing the CD drive??? Primary or seco
Sep 15, 2004 7:39AM PDT

The CDROM is listed as Secondary slave disk mode 4???
I got the C prompt and typed in dir but it told me that it was an invalid media type reading C (at least it was C this time!) It's clickedy clacking again! Just when I think I'm getting somewhere! Go figure! By the way, I just read your bios! BEGINNER??????? Yes, I do credit Bill for his input. Are you still with us Bill?

Going to take a break and then see if the clicking has stopped.

Val