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Resolved Question

Home network printing problem from Windows 8 - revisited

by May 16, 2014 10:11PM PDT

In continuation to my previous thread on this subject, I now have another network printer problem in the same system. I chose to open it in a separate thread because the previous one became too long.
I have 3 PCs on my home network

1. Windows XP (SP3) desktop with HP6500 E709a USB printer.
2. Windows 7 (Ultimate SP1 64 bit) desktop with HP 1018 USB printer.
3. Windows 8 (64 bit) laptop.

All computers can see each other and share folders on the home network.

Computers 1 & 2 can freely print on their own printers, as well as on each other's printer. Computer 3 (WinCool can print on the HP6500 (which is connected to the XP computer), but cannot print on the 1018 printer connected to the Win7 computer.

I know that on the Win8 laptop I have to define a local port for the network printer, but when I try to do it I get "Access denied" error message. Win7 denies access from Win8. This is strange, because Win7 does allow access to XP. On the WIN7 computer, under printer properties/security, print permission is granted to "Everyone".

So what could be the reason for the "Access denied" error? I guess it has to do with security / users / permissions, but I cannot find a solution.

Discussion is locked

gadisam has chosen the best answer to their question. View answer
20 Posts
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Best Answer

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OK, but who is "Everyone"?
by Forum moderator May 16, 2014 10:39PM PDT

To recap the lesson on this I'll keep it short. "Everyone" is not "Anyone." That is, in Windows networking "Everyone" are those with accounts.

So when I am logged into my Windows 8 machine as "gads" to be able to use resources on the Windows 7 machine I must also have an account there and permission to print. Testing this is each. I walk to my Windows 7 machine. Log out and then log in as "gads".

If you want to allow "Anyone" to use shares, printers we enable the Guest account.
Bob

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Thanks, but... still not working
by gadisam May 17, 2014 1:24AM PDT

On the Win7 computer (the one with the printer) I right-clicked the 1018 printer, then properties, security, then added "guest" (actually Win7PC\Guest was added), gave it print permission + manage printer permission + manage documents permission), but in the Win8 computer I still get the same Access denied error message.

Maybe I have to add something like Win8PC\Guest , but how? it won't let me!

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That did not enable the Windows Guest account.
by r. proffitt Forum moderator May 17, 2014 11:23AM PDT

There's a lot on the web about that but the way you did it and please I'm writing this all in fun.

"You did it wrong."

There are many articles about the Guest account. Pick one, try it?
Bob

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I don't quite understand
by gadisam May 18, 2014 7:26AM PDT

I looked here and it looks like I did everything OK.

Anyway, the problem is now solved.
On the Win7 computer I added Guest to the Administrators group, and bingo - access not denied anymore and printing enabled.

However, I'm not sure if this is the correct solution. Is there a more "elegant" solution? a different, cleverer way to give Guest printing permission?

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Doesn't seem to enable the Guest account.
by r. proffitt Forum moderator May 18, 2014 7:32AM PDT
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Things gone bad....
by gadisam May 19, 2014 2:11AM PDT

1. Sorry, I used the tutorial, I turned Guest account ON on Win7 - it didn't work. If I remove Guest from Admin group - Access Denied again.
2. I tried to reverse things; I turned Guess account OFF on Win7, I removed the 1018 printer from Win8. But now when I want to re-add it in Win8 in a local port, it says that the port is already in use. I try to remove the port - but I can't remove it, because it's in use...

Tried to reboot - to no avail. The local port still cannot be removed.

So I'm stuck again, this time because of the local port....

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Stumper.
by r. proffitt Forum moderator May 19, 2014 2:26AM PDT

I have yet to try to remove a local port. Never found the need to as I can change to other ports.

HOWEVER the Guest account is a tar pit of issues. That's why I just use my own account name to do such things.
Bob

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The port can't be removed.....
by gadisam May 19, 2014 2:33AM PDT

The local port can't be removed because it's in use by a hidden printer - the one that I removed in my previous reply. It's not visible on my printer list, but it's hidden somewhere and uses the port, but I cannot remove it because it's invisibleSad -( -(

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Any idea how to remove a "hidden" printer?
by gadisam May 19, 2014 2:35AM PDT

Any idea how to remove a "hidden" printer?

Doesn't work from Device Manager.

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Never had to remove such.
by r. proffitt Forum moderator May 19, 2014 2:40AM PDT

As to removing a printer, well I can't be specific but the driver cleanup tool from HP or the other printer maker often does the work.

I do have manual methods but in a forum I can't go near that as it's registry searches, boots to live Linux CDs and more. It's not a precise procedure so you can bet that's where I have to stop on that one.
Bob

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Finally, everything solved
by gadisam May 19, 2014 6:04AM PDT

The only way to remove the "hidden" printers is by editing the registry and removing every instance of them.
Once I removed them, I could delete the local port.
Once I deleted the local port, I could re-define the 1018 Win7 printer on the Win8 computer. And as I wrote before, this was only possible when I added Guest to Admin group on the Win7 computer. Turning Guest account ON, which is recommended in the tutorial mentioned earlier in this thread, doesn't do the job (i.e., Win8 is still denied access to the port when Guest account is ON).

I believe there's a more elegant way to grant Guest a printing permission on the Win7 computer, but I'm not going to look for one, I'm happy with what I have now.

Thank you all, especially Bob, for your help!

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At times it takes a villiage to fix the printing press.
by r. proffitt Forum moderator May 19, 2014 7:15AM PDT
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Frightening!
by gadisam May 20, 2014 5:13AM PDT

Well, this article is really scary.
However, since I don't have a better solution, I'm willing to take the risk.

As I said before, If I remove Guest from Admin group, and turn ON guest account instead, the printer port is not accessible to Win8 user. So until I find a better, solid solution, I stay with Guest in Admin group Laugh

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Answer
I consider this solved.
by Forum moderator May 20, 2014 5:20AM PDT

You got it working but after it all sinks in I think the better way is to add my account to the server's list of users and add that to the Admin group. Now I'm back to where I don't need the Guest account.
Bob

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I don't understand what you mean
by gadisam May 21, 2014 4:26AM PDT
add my account to the server's list of users and add that to the Admin group. Now I'm back to where I don't need the Guest account

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Could you please elaborate?
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Sure.
by r. proffitt Forum moderator May 21, 2014 4:32AM PDT

We have our PC and for this discussion the printer is on another PC we'll call SERVER.

On the SERVER I test if my account is good by logging in on the SERVER with my name and password. If that fails I fix that in the accounts control panel. At the same time I could add this like you did to the printer's permissions area.

On my PC then I can change the port to use the printer on that server.

-> Sorry if it seems confusing but this is how accounts and permissions have worked since about Windows NT 3.0 in 1993. Fast forward to 2000 and Windows XP which is based on NT the idea of accounts and permissions carried over to WorkGroup networking.
Bob

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I still don't understand,
by gadisam May 21, 2014 6:30AM PDT

Do you mean that I have to log on to both the PC and the SERVER with the same account? with the same username?

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Yes.
by r. proffitt Forum moderator May 21, 2014 6:40AM PDT

You avoided that by using the Guest account.

To recap. "Everyone" are those with an account. If the resource (printer) is on the server then your incoming network connection is identified as your login on that PC. So the server looks locally for a matching account and if not found, rejects the connection.

To change "Everyone" to "Anyone" you enable the Guest account and if need be make it an authorized user of the resource.
Bob

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OK, Thank you for the explanation,
by gadisam May 22, 2014 7:58AM PDT

but I still don't understand what I have to do instead of adding Guest to Admin.

And I'm going to do it only if I find detailed step-by-step instructions.

Thanks,
Gad

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No one said you had to. But!
by r. proffitt Forum moderator May 22, 2014 8:02AM PDT

But with the Guest enabled you have left the systems wide open to any other person or app to do what they want. It's been detailed in the MSDN, books on administration and more but the concepts date back almost 2 decades which is no excuse on my part except that I find more and more folk are missing the days when it came with a manual.
Bob

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