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His past is starting to haunt him...

by Edward ODaniel / April 25, 2004 12:39 AM PDT
Kerry's Antiwar Past Is a Delicate Issue in His Campaign
By DAVID M. HALBFINGER

Published: April 24, 2004


John Musgrave, a disabled ex-marine from Baldwin City, Kan., who told The Kansas City Star that Mr. Kerry was at the meeting, said he got a call from John Hurley, the Kerry campaign's veterans coordinator.

"He said, `I'd like you to refresh your memory,' " Mr. Musgrave, 55, recounted in an interview, confirming an account he had given to The New York Sun. "He said it twice. `And call that reporter back and say you were mistaken about John Kerry being there.' "

Such little-noticed moments in Mr. Kerry's past ? including his decision at age 26 to meet the Vietcong emissaries to the Paris peace talks ? are coming under new scrutiny now, as Mr. Kerry finally makes the presidential run that his comrades in arms, and in the antiwar movement, half-mockingly predicted decades ago.


I actually got a kick out of this reporter's statement-- "The clean-shaven, shorter-haired, neatly dressed Mr. Kerry, dozens of veterans recalled in interviews, had little patience for any of that. He was almost always the most conservative man in the room."--as it's "accuracy" is demonstrated by the "Kerry criticized the war" picture at the top of the article.


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Re:His past is starting to haunt him...
by Mary Kay / April 25, 2004 1:38 AM PDT

He fought for the right to protest the war. That's what we do in America.As long as he didn't do anything illegal, it's OK, regardless of if we agree or not.

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Re:Re:His past is starting to haunt him...
by prescotthenry / April 25, 2004 2:09 AM PDT

It wasn't just protesting or objecting to the war that was his problem, it was spreading rumors about rampant attrocities when he had no first hand knowledge and that at a time when our returning veterans were getting spit upon!!

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Re:Re:Re:His past is starting to haunt him...
by Mark G / April 25, 2004 2:24 AM PDT

i agree as i was spat on and kerrys a joke i pray that he never gets alected to any office evan as city animal controls above him

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Re: 'atrocities'
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / April 26, 2004 1:42 PM PDT

Hi, M.

Unfortunately, his charges were accurate -- "free fire zones" and "search and destroy missions" are both contrary to the 4th Geneva Convention, which we signed in the late 40's. He's said he now wishes he'd used a bit more restrained language. Nonetheless, the charges can't be refuted, because they were official US policy.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Again Dave twists the facts,,,
by J. Vega / April 26, 2004 10:27 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: 'atrocities'

Dave, Kerry went before the Senate and spouted that "Winter Soldier" nonsense. You are quite aware that it was bogus. But again you repeat your Forth Geneva Convention (your current favorite) yammering to misdirect attention from this.
Why do you again try to twist the facts, just like Kerry? You said, "Nonetheless, the charges can't be refuted, because they were official US policy.". Are you saying that those charges he made before the Senate were true and U.S. policy? Are you still trying those '70's anti-war/U.S. tactics? Is that because you still have the same feelings, or because you're trying to justify your actions back then?

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Re: Here's chapter and verse...
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / April 27, 2004 4:49 AM PDT

J., in the form of a letter from the International Human Rights Watch specifically showing (with section references to the Conventions) how actions described by a different Senator Kerrey (former D-Neb and also a decorated VietNam War hero) violate the Geneva Conventions.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Again Dave, a challenge to cite the EXACT portion of the conventions that so state...
by Edward ODaniel / April 26, 2004 10:35 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: 'atrocities'

as no such thing is stated.

Twist as you will there is NOTHING that supports your perverted claim.

Why not restart the old (and just as empty) claim that .50 caliber weapons cannot be used against personnel targets because such is "against the Geneva Conventions"?

PS - why didn't you remember to include H&I Fire Missions or ARC Lighting? They are usually included and Kerry made the (just as empty) claim regarding them too.

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Re: Again Dave, a challenge to cite the EXACT portion of the conventions that so state...

Hi, Ed.

See the message to J with a link to a detailed description as to how "free fire zones" and "search and destroy missions" violate the conventions, with detailed citations of the relevant sections of the conventions.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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You didn't bother actually READING it or you would not have posted it. The...

article referred to Kerry's claims of killing rather than taking prisoners when prisoners could be taken.

Your claim was - "Unfortunately, his charges were accurate -- "free fire zones" and "search and destroy missions" are both contrary to the 4th Geneva Convention, which we signed in the late 40's."

NOWHERE in the Conventions are either free fire zones or S&D missions indicated as contrary to the conventions.

What the article was referring to was Kerry's false claim to have been ordered to kill anyone encountered rather than take prisoners. That is indeed against the conventions but has NOTHING to do with your claims regarding FF zones or S&D missions or even H&I fire missions or ARC Lights.

Since you quite obviously have not ever bothered to actually READ the text of the 4th Convention, I am linking you to it here and suggesting you do read it as you look foolish with all that egg on your face!
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/geneva1.html

You might also find the Laws of War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war (which should open your eyes as spies and terrorists are NOT protected by any rules and in vietnam the VC cadre were indeed terrorists)
and the Hague conventions to be of interest too as it is these that require the military to avoid damaging culturally significant sites during wartime.

The more you read, the less you should be tempted to bandy words about subject matter you do not have knowledge of.

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Boy, that's supporting our troops.................................Not!
by C1ay / April 25, 2004 3:12 AM PDT
He fought for the right to protest the war. That's what we do in America.As long as he didn't do anything illegal, it's OK, regardless of if we agree or not.
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Re:Boy, that's supporting our troops....................... ..........Not!

You have no right to be judgmental. In the first place, I never said I agreed with him and further, don't you ever question our family's patriotism. I lost my brother in WW2, A nephew in korea . My eldest son was in Viet Nam and thankfully came home to us.I only said that we have the right in America to disagree and express it. I stand by my word.

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You go, Mary!

Thanks for your family's service. You may say whatever you like.

On the other hand, even if you had just taken your citizenship oath 20 minutes ago, you could still say whatever you like. That's how it works in a free country. And this is still a free country.

Dan

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Re:Re:Boy, that's supporting our troops....................... ..........Not!
You have no right to be judgmental. In the first place,...

Just what makes you think that I don't have the right to state that war protesters DO NOT support our troops or to be judgemental of their non-supportive arses? It was the troops that remained that brought your son home, not the protesters on the fence...

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Re: The point is Clay... They have the right to disagree

even when they are disagreeable. You are also disagreeable when you make a direct statement to me , that I do not support the troops.

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Re:Re: The point is Clay... They have the right to disagree
by C1ay / April 27, 2004 2:24 AM PDT
You are also disagreeable when you make a direct statement to me , that I do not support the troops.

My statement was about him not supporting the troops, not you...

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Re:Re:Re: The point is Clay... this was a direct response to me
by Mary Kay / April 27, 2004 2:54 AM PDT

Boy, that's supporting our troops....................... ..........Not!

He fought for the right to protest the war. That's what we do in America.As long as he didn't do anything illegal, it's OK, regardless of if we agree or not.

Posted by: Clay Posted on: 04/25/2004 10:12 AM

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On MTP the other Sunday ...
by Evie / April 25, 2004 3:14 AM PDT

... he chalked his lying testimony up to "youthful anger". The cover of his book is disgraceful. He is free to do that I suppose, but so too are the American people free to criticize his involvement and what that means for a would be (hope not!) President.

Evie Happy

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His activities undermined the troops and their morale.
by Kiddpeat / April 25, 2004 6:38 AM PDT

That probably cost some lives. He did it, apparently, to build a political career.

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Re: His activities undermined the troops and their morale.

No, KP, he did it because he felt it was the right thing to do. The political career came later -- and was partially motivated by trying to ensure the same thing didn't happen again. And it really hasn't -- while there are some parallels between VietNam and Iraq, this time we seem to be doing our best to avoid collateral damage, despite many provocations.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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BS - check a bit on when he FIRST became interested in running for office...
by Edward ODaniel / April 26, 2004 10:42 PM PDT

His choice of entry into the Navy was his SECOND step in emulation of his hero and his later choice of Swift Boats was because none were deployed and he didn't think he would have to go anywhere but possibly the Philippines.

Throughout his "protests" he took direction from Teddy and others. You want to try to deny it you can look over the pictures of the long haired Teddy hugger in action. http://www.geocities.com/seavet72/AW/ws-kerry.htm (just one of many with such photos)

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PS -- we did our best to avoid...
by Edward ODaniel / April 26, 2004 10:51 PM PDT

collateral damage throughout the Vietnam War also despite what your uninformed self and others claim.

We did not have much in the way of current PRECISION weaponry back then and making such comparisons would be like saying that pre-rifled era marksmen/cannoneers firing matchlocks were not avoiding collateral damage while using their available arms yet other marksmen/cannoneers of the later rifled era were "doing their best".

Your comments serve yet again to emphasize your complete lack of knowledge regarding weapons, tactics, "rules of war", or anything of the military in general.

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Re:Re:His past is starting to haunt him...
by Edward ODaniel / April 26, 2004 8:19 AM PDT
"As long as he didn't do anything illegal, it's OK, regardless of if we agree or not."

But he DID do something illegal.

He testified in Senate hearings of things that he KNEW at the time were fabrications garnered during Winter Soldier.
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Oh, Mary
by Dan McC / April 26, 2004 11:54 PM PDT

Don't you realize that excercising your rights as a free American is un-American?

Get with the program.

Wink

Dan

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Re:Oh, Mary
by Mary Kay / April 27, 2004 12:43 AM PDT
In reply to: Oh, Mary

Thank you, I guess I fell off my walker.

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Re:His past is starting to haunt him...
by SteveGargini / April 25, 2004 3:31 AM PDT

Kerry's words:
"From its inception, Vietnam Veterans Against the War was a curiosity and an influential force in the Vietnam protest movement because of the novelty, and political potency, of antiwar demonstrators in uniform.


So it's now a novelty to assassinate political leaders!!!!!

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