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General discussion

Hi Definition SD recording Camcorder

Jan 3, 2006 9:29AM PST

Greetings Everyone:

Looks like Sanyo is doing it again pushing the bar in SD recording Camcorders to High Definition.

So it seems that its Sanyo that begins the change every year to improve these small compact camcorders.

Users comments about this new Hi Def camcorder are interested to know if Sanyo has improved low light capabilities, a feature that seems to faulter many companies.

I for one am very glad that Sanyo continues to improve on video quality of these Camcorder formats.

Anyone else care to give their comments on SD recording Camcorders?

Regards Robert

Discussion is locked

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Hi Definition SD recording Camcorder?????????
Jan 4, 2006 3:53AM PST

What are you talking about??????
A SD camera would be a VHS unit. Do you have any links for this??? John

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It's a CES announcement, and can be seen on Sanyo.com
Jan 12, 2006 3:33AM PST

It was a top pick from CES (see CNET's coverage), and you can now find it on Sanyo's site.

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What is High Definition SD?
Jan 4, 2006 3:58AM PST

Marketing buzz?

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Marketing buzz?
Jan 4, 2006 4:22AM PST

YEP!!! I went to the Sanyo site it seems the SD stands for SD memory card. I not holding my breath for this camera. John

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SD in general terms...
Jan 4, 2006 6:20AM PST

Doesn't the term "SD" basically mean anything meant for traditional broadcast resolution (whether 4:3 or 16:9) and not HD? I think a lot of companies throw around terms that confuse us all. It will be interesting to see how camcorder manufacturers get HD footage onto a memory chip. THAT will be an accomplishment!

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While HD cameras may have a sufficiently sized sensor for
Jan 4, 2006 3:14PM PST

decent photos, I wouldn't hold my breath looking for 'footage' on a chip. It's a struggle just to get a compressed version on tape.

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t's a struggle just to get a compressed version on tape.
Jan 5, 2006 1:23AM PST

YEP!!!! All of the "new tech" cameras, DVD, HD, and this SD card thing, All use mpeg2 or mpeg4 compression. NONE of the them have the picture quality of a MiniDV tape at 640x480, let alone 720p. John

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(NT) (NT) I meant 1080i cameras like the Sonys or the new Canon.
Jan 5, 2006 1:28AM PST
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I meant 1080i cameras like the Sonys or the new
Jan 5, 2006 2:40AM PST
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Wow! So much for Sanyo credibility. I don't know what their
Jan 5, 2006 9:44AM PST

reputation is, but it's not going to be helped by that. Should be interesting to see what this 'HD' looks like. P.T. Barnum underestimated the market.

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It's simple, we're obsoleting non flash based video slowly
Jan 12, 2006 3:55AM PST

Digital still cameras with video technology will progress to first leave only amateur film-makers that want the features of interchangeable lenses, etc. or overcoming the last limitations to be gotten around using the "traditional" camcorders until finally tape is completely a thing of the past.

Remember, tape is simply a storage medium. The moment the light hits the CCD it's digital thereafter, so why not store it in a digital flash-based medium?

As time goes on flash memory will reach capacities we can't even imagine (think of the hard drive progress -- I still fondly remember my 10 MEGABYTE hard drives...). So video duration won't be an issue (this Sanyo can already do 82 minutes on a 2 gig card which is available today for $109).

Resolution improvements always outweigh the negative impacts of the attendant "lossy" compression involved -- otherwise what's the point? MPEG4 won't be the be-all end-all compression scheme either (just like PKZIP 1.0 wasn't the end of it all). So these will improve as time goes on also.

So beyond storage, a video recording device needs to manage the capture of light in varying conditions and at increasing resolutions as our display technology advances (don't think for a minute that 1080P [P not i!] will be the be-all end-all video display resolution!), and deal with focal length for zooming.

At CES an amazing new NANO based CCD technology was shown that can capture images in almost PITCH BLACK, and at very high resolution. Low light sensitivity by the sensor will enable devices to be built that better handle varying light conditions. As the resolution of these devices grows (ie faster than the display resolution in use -- think digital cameras, we're hitting 10 megapixels now which is higher than any PC monitors in wide use today) then this resolution lets us add digital zooming to optical zoom to widen the focal range of these cameras.

Bottom line is, the Sanyo is a great next step in this evolution - kudos of for getting out the door first at HD resolution on flash media! Let the competition for technological supremacy continue and advance the overall marketplace!

I for one have nearly completely retired my camcorder (I don't shoot in low light like I used to) and now use almost exclusively my subcompact digital camera for video. I have the solution I wanted for the question of "do I take the camcorder or the camera to Disney World this time?" (worst answer of all: both) I now get great video and great stills and the camera is so small on my hip I sometimes forget I brought it. Never forget that the best camera is the one that you use the most -- in other words Good pictures of everything you wanted to remember will always beat one or two Great pictures of the *few* things you remembered to take that bulky camera or camcorder along to be able to catch. By that definition alone, the only thing left long term will be these tiny cameras and they will have video capabilities beyond what we even can imagine today (3D anyone???).

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An industryvet shooting video exclusively on a subcompact
Jan 12, 2006 5:14AM PST

digital still camera? I don't know what industry you are a veteran of, but it's not the camera industry unless you work for Sanyo. I think you're getting a little carried away, and the details are far from clear. What is clear is that calling this HD is marketing talk.

HD is 1080i and one hour will barely fit, when compressed fairly heavily, onto a mini-DV tape that holds 13gigs. The video cameras start at about $2,000 and go up sharply from there. 82 minutes on a 2gig flash card is a joke! It would have to be so severely compressed that little useable video would be left.

I just listened to the Cnet video. Cnet is reporting that this is a 720p device, and they are not reporting 82 minutes. That is not HD.

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You should read more carefully
Jan 18, 2006 12:57AM PST

I said I 'nearly' do all video now sans camcorder. I stand by my perspective that the best camera is the one that you'll use the most often and that 10 "good" shots out-value 1 "great" shot (unless you're shooting for some magazine or are a hobbyist/pro).

Yes, I use a subcompact because I'm not willing to haul my Minolta 35MM around with all it's lenses and such just to get shots at Disney World, and I think I'm clearly in the majority today. If you hadn't noticed the absence of bulky 35MM cameras being carried around Disneyworld, then you've missed this trend. It's no different in video shooting, fewer and fewer people are carrying Hi8 or VHS-C than ever before and increasingly you're seeing and will see digital cameras with full frame video replacing tape camcorders as the device of choice.

Also, if you are as video knowledgeable as you claim, you would know that HD is not just 1080i but also 720P; to quote CNET:

"Currently, HDTV comes in two flavors: 1080i, used by CBS, NBC, HBO, and many others; and 720p, used only by ABC, ESPN, and Fox."

Also, on many TVs, 720P looks better than 1080i, so don't mistake higher resolution for higher picture quality. You really should *see* the picture quality and not just be stucks on specs like so many are. Those that have seen the picture quality of the new camera are clearly recognizing the improvement. And, half the point of my post is that this Sanyo is just another step in the never ending progression...

Finally, yes my bad, I meant to say 82 minutes on a 4 Gig card, readily available I currently see for $207. However, even if you only go the 1 or 2 Gig route, you should be aware that studies have been done that show the average length of video shot of some event like a birthday, averages under 15 minutes in length, well within the 21 minutes of even a <$50 1 Gig SD card in this device!

And the future looks extremely bright for flash capacities as prices will free-fall as capacities ever increase. Those 8 Gig cards under development now will be at bargain bin prices in just a few years!

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If one is really knowledgeable in the video industry,
Jan 19, 2006 5:16AM PST

he or she would know that a verticle resolution of 720 is not high definition video. One would also not look to Cnet for a statement of the standard for HDV. However, it is also obvious that the marketers have promoted 720 to HD status, and that confusion in the market is rampant. Many, perhaps most, consumers are buying HD televisions not realizing that they fall short of the full HD standard.

Here is one comentary on HDV:

The architects of today?s HDTV system, long ago, envisioned a day when advancing technology would enable what is now known as ?full HD resolution.? For HDTV buffs this resolution is known simply as ?1080p.?

This echos what those who are really in the industry already know, HD is 1080p. Without that capability, one simply does not have an HDV system.

If 720 were the standard, then we had HD video cameras years ago without realizing it. Under that definition, the Canon XL2 among others brought us HD video quite some time ago. What then is unique about the XL H1 or Sony's HDR-FX1? Is all the hoopla surrounding them pointless? No, they have finally delivered HD capability in comsumer level cameras. You should try to understand all that if you want to speak as an 'IndustryVet'.

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Should I question if you're a 'Kidd'...???
Jan 18, 2006 1:45AM PST

Really, my CNET handle has nothing to do with this discussion and you're out of line to call it into question.

Am I an industry vet, you decide. But first understand of what industry. Not the photography industry specifically, but the consumer electronics industry, going back to managing a million dollar combined Radio Shack - Computer store in 1978 at age 19 at the end of the CB boom. After a decade in retail, I moved on to the PC industry, easily the largest part of the electronics industry today, where I've been a commercial account manager, buyer, integrator, and managed hardware, software, network and training support staff at Kwajalein Missile Range doing top secret work. I've been an early adopter of nearly every electronics category that's come down the pike as an avid hobbyist. I can easily argue I've run more software programs than nearly any other human being in history, having gone through literally thousands of programs through the years involved with interface and software design, and support.

Whether a person is a veteran of an industry or not cannot be measured by a device they use or discuss. There is an appropriateness to the use that is too often overlooked. You should look more at how things work for real uses and less at only specs especially since they can easily be misunderstood as you did with the definition of HD.

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Ah yes, Radio Shack. That does fully explain it, and, as
Jan 18, 2006 8:31PM PST

you said, it is certainly not the camera industry. It does perfectly explain your technology choices.

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Nano CCD Technology
Jan 15, 2006 1:45AM PST

Greetings Industry Vet:

You mentioned that at CES there was a company that showed of a Nano CCD Technology that can record video in the dark?

Would you have the name of that Company?

Regards Robert

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Sorry don't recall the name
Jan 18, 2006 12:34AM PST

it was a Korean company I believe and they won a technical innovation award for the device. Best I can recommend is to review all the CNET coverage since they had it mentioned there.

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we're obsoleting non flash based video slowly,,,VERY SLOWLY
Jan 18, 2006 4:58AM PST

Back in the early 80's as main frame disk storage capacties aproached 1gb per disk, IBM said "tape is a thing of the past" WRONG!!! When tape didn't go away and competiors were make a lot of money with main frame tape drives, IBM was forced to come out with a new tape drive the 3480 that used a cartridge tape. The sucessors to the 3480 are STILL in use today.
Today the MinDV rules!!! Resonable cost, high picture quality, low medium cost for the tapes, high reliabilty.
DVD camers are JUNK.
HD camers are a comprise, SD cameras are a even bigger comprise.
Don't hold your breath waiting for tape to go away. John

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I think otherwise...
Feb 27, 2006 10:45AM PST

I must agree with Industry Vet... mostly due to market conditions... people do NOT want to lug around 2 different cameras--one still & one video. I, too, now use my digicam for most of the videos I take (casual family & vacation). I've found editing software that can turn out great musical material suitable for watching with friends & family...

Also, with SD vid cameras, there is a very palpable "cool factor" which you are overlooking here. Kids are buying the cheap SD vid cameras & putting out good stuff (look at youtube.com). Most folks who purchase video cameras are not pros... they don't know or care about the things you've been arguing about.

I believe that Sanyo is getting it right. They understand the marketplace and are looking to fill a need. I'll bet the Xacti HD breaks sales records. And it's just a taste of the future.

I'm gonna buy it. I've seen the output. It's great. It's less than $800. And I'll still be carrying around one (small) camera.