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General discussion

Help me decide: PC or Apple laptop?

Aug 23, 2013 9:33AM PDT
Question:

Help me decide: PC or Apple laptop?


I read all your submissions and I really rely greatly on your answers so thank you!

I am in need of a new laptop. I've always had PCs but lately I have been increasingly unhappy with all the problems with errors. Inevitably a little Microsoft window pops up at the most inopportune times. It makes me crazy.

We have an iPad 2, and 4th-gen iPods. I only had one problem with my iPad in three years. I took it to Apple and they took care of it. It was as easy as pie. With my PC, it's like pulling teeth. I am good with computers and can usually work around problems, but it has gotten annoying to see little windows pop up saying my program is being closed for no reason.

So, my big question...PC or Apple for a laptop that I want to use for everyday home non-gaming use. I want to use it for e-mail, general word processing, pictures, and video. That's it. It has to be fast and work. That's all I ask. Can you help me decide?

Thanks very much!

--Submitted by Mary S. of Illinois

[NOTE to all participating members: Please keep this a civil discussion and respect each other recommendations and suggestions. Let's help this member make an informed buying decision. Thanks! -Lee ]


Note: This post was edited by its original author on 08/24/2013 at 1:31 PM PT

Discussion is locked

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Apples v/s oranges
Aug 31, 2013 12:52AM PDT

The reason MS outsells is more because of price than actual value in product. Many people can't afford Apple prices. Of course Microsoft sells more - it's cheap. Sales numbers don't mean a thing. Look at the stats of contented owners after the sale before you jump up and down on Apple.

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You are apparently out of touch with reality.
Aug 31, 2013 12:58AM PDT

Wake up and smell the coffee...Redmont has not had anything worth dealing with since 2003...with Windows XP Pro...while Mac simply keeps on chugging along...grabbing more market share daily.

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Yeah, doubled in 10 years - all the way up to 10% now!?
Aug 31, 2013 5:00AM PDT

Start with a low enough market share & it doesn't take much success to double in 10 years

For those who blindly cling to the quaint notion that APPL products are "problem free" and somehow are magically immune to malware, spyware, hackers, etc., now that there are enough Apple devices to begin to make it interesting, the bad guys no longer ignore them. Case in point - we all used to get span email that appeared to come from one of our regular contacts, but really is from someone who has highjacked one of our contacts email. Over the past few years, that problem has almost been eliminated from Windows based PCs. But I still get at least one per week from one of my nieces, nephews, in-laws, grandkids, etc that use one or more iPods, iPhones, iPads or Macs. Apples operating system(s) now appear to be the path of least resistance for this type of attack.

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Used them for years...and they are essentially issue free
Aug 31, 2013 6:27AM PDT

Have I had viruses...yes...in Windows.

Do I need to repair the Registry...yes...again only in Windows.

SPAM is removed by forwarding it to spam@uce.gov and is not a function of the email system used...oh wait...there have been numerous outlook viruses...not so Apple's Mail...though maybe if you really think hard, you can come up with one for Apple Mail...but I have never seen one.

If you run Little Snitch as a firewall, no one sends anything from your machine...without you knowing about it...and if you do not wish to deal with it...you shut it off...pretty easy from my perspective.

I see a whole lot more people..who cling to the mistaken notion that the latest offering from Redmont will actually work as it is supposed to this time...hope springs eternal...but of course it never does.

I got tired of all the mickey mouse with WinDoz..and only use mac now, as yes indeed it simply does work.

Mac seldom needs fixing, and when it does, the fix is easy and effective, and I do not need all of my laborious training...on repairing machines...to accomplish that...it is a given.

That windows will eventually require repair is also a given, and how many of you are sick and tired of having to erase the hard drive and install from scratch to get it to work correctly?

I absolutely do not have that ever with my macs...they simply keep on humming.

In retrospect, there is something to be said for a system that just keeps on working, and from experience that system is not WinDoz.

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Sales do not indicate performance and reliability
Aug 31, 2013 1:06AM PDT

That's only because they are a lot cheaper. If Macbooks were as cheap, they would be selling just as well, if not better. And remember, cheaper doesn't always mean better.

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I call FUD...
Aug 24, 2013 2:23AM PDT

While it IS true that Windows PCs require 3rd party drivers - those made by the hardware vendors, the issues with these drivers causing all manner of problems is well into the past.

Microsoft REQUIRES vendors to submit drivers for extensive testing before they're certified WHQL and released to the masses. As long as you stick with main stream hardware, you shouldn't have ANY issues.

Given the OP is buying a laptop, those issues are generally nonexistent. Hardware vendors like Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus, etc... can't afford bad press by having funky, poorly performing hardware.

The real question that needs to be asked - what sort of data needs to be migrated to the new computer. Some data (databases, mostly) are more challenging to migrate to a Mac.

Also, connecting various IOS devices - iPads, iPhones, etc... isn't a problem as iTunes does work perfectly well on Windows as it does on OSX. I have clients and colleagues that can attest to this. Sync via iTunes on a Windows box - just plug the thing in and it automatically does syncs. NO buttons to push. I'm going to guess that it's the same on OSX. Advantage - none.

Hardware: Apple gets their Intel chips from the same place Dell, Lenovo, HP and all of the others get them - from Intel. Advantage - none.

The only advantage Mac has over PC is "bragging rights." So if you want to go sit at a Starbucks quaffing a Frapachino, and look "cool" doing it - then yeah... Apple is probably the way to go. But for the average Joe on the street - the Windows laptop does the same tasks for a lot less cash.

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Mac
Aug 24, 2013 3:38AM PDT

I have PCs and Macs in my environment. The Macs make my productivity up by 100 to 1. The PC is bogged by too much of instability. For most people dont realise that the genus of the MAC is it's robustness as it is based on the UNIX protocol which is extended into many other professional applications such as aircraft navigation and monitoring engines. Hence its stability.

THere are 200 users of Windows users in my team of software developers and 40 Macs. The productivity from the Windows versus Mac is benchmarked at 65% productivity time and 20 % issues arise from drivers being needed to be applied from time to time. Most people using professional CAD/CAM and robotics engineering software will find that the math calculations on the PC peters out at 50% of the workload times with 50% slowing down as the process threads of Windows cannot match a UNIX based OS. Mainly because of the fact that coding variations can vary.

On the MAC the uptime and idle times ratios worked to an estimate of 90% processing threads concurrently and 5% idle times as all the processing is done parallel especially when it comes to design and modelling aplications. When it comes to speed and ease of use... KISS applies and MAC comes up strong with Keeping it Simple STUPID !!!

Although we have 200 versus 40 Macs... the PCs only perform modular needs and every now and then they require some sort of driver or file updates. These do make stability in the PC drop by 60% of the time. The MAC does the update threads at idle times and does not interrupt the process threads.

In simple speak... the people who use a Mac invest in their productivity for ease of use and simple to use. The cost is not critical Apple's philosophy is a terrific one. Most users can synch all their work at the end of the day it's productivity not which is a better hardware or software. However overall the Mac scores for performance, design, ease of use, high availability and STABILITY is 100 to 1.

Most of the intel processors are great - same on the PC and the MACs. With the PCs you still find incongruencies. The multi-tasking threads are complex and not user friendly and mission critical stability is hard to come by after using a PC for 6 months. The MAC has the investment time of 24 months and it still functions well and with upgrades being meaningful than eratic fixes that occur every other day on the Windows engine.

The MAC overal is a better finished product than a PC in my experience. I am now phasing out PCs and going completely with 500 MacBook Pro for my research and development team who are responsible for designing advanced modelling for computer graphics and animation project for our digital studio.

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Even if it is true... who cares?
Aug 24, 2013 4:42AM PDT

I doubt most folk are interested in the threaded efficiency UNLESS they are doing modelling like your team might be. Why would you need 500 of them if they're so great? ... this isn't adding up to me. You should be looking at a bigger Unix box; a proper Unix box and getting your users to use full blown Unix networked.

The danger here is that someone buys something 'over specified'. The MacBook Air is a beautiful piece of kit BUT it's not touch enabled, and it still has a learning curve, and still has potential extra costs. It's still down to what the user needs... I need touch functionality over and above 'threaded efficiency'. My win 8, core2quad, SSD primary drive PC boots in 12 seconds and does all my video encoding with ease. My criteria is met without shelling it for new hardware and software.... every user needs to consider the total cost of any change. I'll reconsider at some point too as I hate the cost of MS OS/upgrades.

ps I've not rebuilt my windows PCs in years... It's an urban myth that it's a 'must do'. Yes dodgy sites can cause issues with malware but that says a bit about ourselves too. Such troubles are usually resolved by going back to a previous system restore point (always enable).

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My point
Aug 24, 2013 11:51AM PDT

Threads and needles doesnt tear my shirt... however... its about which is a better machine and investment. I shared my experience of performance. By the way.... just as a case in point I wanted to demonstrate that from a user experience who uses Macs and PCs that the overall performance and price value goes to the Mac at an efficiency and performance of 35% and 65% higher than the average PC respectively where the Mac's apps are very stable regardless.

The fact is would you want to fly across the ocean in a turbo-prop or a jet engined aircraft for both comfort and safety? Problem would be if you hit a storm in mid-ocean then you're going to feel the effects of it. There is nothing going for over spec or under spec. Technology is moving forward every second every moment and every millisecond and so on.

Regardless we have to accept the technology advancement in the PC cycle versus Mac cycles. The MAC has a better usage and productivity whether you use a Word app or a CAD app. It is again whilst it may be transparent to the user be it a kid or an engineer etc.... the ease of use is simplified for any user.

No one stops you from your choice of machines, however in answer to the original question the debate is not about who is a better product but how a user experience is measured to arrive at a conclusion of which is a more efficient and high productivity unit. The lesser the software and hardware capablities the lower the productivity is going to be. There are some exceptions.

I still have an old windows 7 machine which purely is for controlling some devices that are just simple stuf. Since the machine was never connected to the internet it served well and is still working. We use the older Macs in similar fashion. Not in any form of software development. One cannot argue which is a better machine here. It is one developer's product was for the Win7 and the other was for the Mac. No product upgrade was needed for a software that controlled password access to the secured biometric controllers for one of our work spaces. Non issue obout threads and needles..

TO keep it simple KISS.... the Mac is a matured product today than it was 25 years ago. The PC hardware may have the bells and whistles however, if one is 4 years old or adult etc. will find the EASE of USE outweighs the way in which an engineer has tried to design a PC with a developer in mind and how a wide ranging user and application profile. The MAC has a more stable crop of products from lot more refinement than a PC with exception of specialist software apps.

Again if it was which had overall performance versus needs?
It's a MAC from a MAC and PC user environment owner who have used computerised devices and computers way back to the first Apple computers with green monitors. At this cross road in product design and ideal products there should be balance... and right now the better performer has been judged on its overall delivery not brand bashing... facts speak for themselves.

And I would give credit where it is due but no intention to put any product down because of brand prejudice. I say it as it is. That is fair comment.

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Buy a standard form factor
Aug 30, 2013 11:11PM PDT

As a pc tech, I will offer a few comments.
If you do not need ultra light, portability buy a " full" sized potable, 13, 14, 15 inch. Ultrabooks are really fragile books and do not take rough handling they also do not have optical drives and sometimes a wired ethernet port.
Don't buy a cheap consumer model, buy a Lenovo T series, HP elitebook or probook. A MacBook Pro etc
Buy lots of memory and hard drive space upfront
Do buy the manufactures warranty extension. Including accidental damage.
If you are changing platforms see which store can offer some hands on training, this can save a lot of trouble.
Determine what software you need and what is available.
You can save some money by buying last year's model.

Good luck

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Sounds like those are old PC's
Aug 30, 2013 1:46PM PDT

Windows 7 and 8 are generally much more reliable than Windows XP...true that Macs are probably still better in that regard, but give Microsoft a little more credit in that area, there has been progress in the Windows world.

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Not sure this addresses the question
Aug 30, 2013 4:04PM PDT

The multi-national company that I worked for had over 5,000 personal computers, all Windows machines. No MACS. All the servers were Windows based, including the ones that were clustered to allow for multi-user access to common databases. Does this mean that Windows is better? No. It only means that in our environment Windows was a better choice. In your environment, with computer graphics and animation playing a major role I am not surprised that MACs offer a better choice. Unfortunately, for a home user neither example is significant.

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What I wanna know - WHERE do you get this funky hardware?
Aug 30, 2013 4:10PM PDT

I've been running Windows boxes, laptops and such for years. Mostly on generic hardware I've cobbled together. I haven't had a "name branded" system since 1993.
And oddly enough, I've rarely had issues with instability like SO many people claim. I should rephrase that. I haven't had issues that were the fault of the OS. I've had a few BSODs - mainly due to HARDWARE problems. If you've got a flakey stick of RAM, yes, you can have a BSOD...
And yes, I DO put my system through the proverbial ringer. I play the occasional video game, I write in Word, do the occasional spreadsheet, e-mail, watch videos, look at the occasional cat meme.. I'll admit I don't do much in the way of CAD/CAM, but I am familiar with the process and many of things I do put just as much, if not more of a load on the system as a CAD/CAM app.
Now you mention you have to do driver updates which brings your system availability to 40%? I smell a BIG pile of FUD here.. Assuming the average of 30 days per month, That would mean your PCs are down for about 18 days and are only available for 12..?
Windows Update happens once a month on the 2nd Tuesday. New drivers can be downloaded and installed during this time if the vendor makes the driver available by way of Windows Update.
So what you're saying in essence since these driver updates take your PC's availability down so much, I have to wonder what you're doing wrong. Dial-up networking, perhaps? That could account for things taking Windows Update taking up 18 DAYS... But only if the patches for the month are fairly large - like in the GB range - and that doesn't happen very often. If that's the case - maybe you should invest in some broadband... It's not that expensive any more.
On my systems, Windows Updates take no more than maybe half an hour - and that's only if there's a huge number of patches. It's usually over and done with in much less time - including the time needed to install everything, reboot the system and log in again.
Oh.. And Windows Update can be set up to automatically download and install patches during the wee hours of the night when everyone's asleep and will do so as long as the system is powered up.

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(NT) Trust Microsoft...Always Trust Microsoft? Not Me!!!
Aug 31, 2013 1:14AM PDT
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...where do you get the funky ....
Sep 5, 2013 3:35AM PDT

The point being "downtime" it's ALWAYS some downtime.

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Well the big difference between Apple and
Aug 26, 2013 12:36AM PDT

Windows machines the drivers are consistent across all the apples. Windows machines have multiple vendors that use many different components that require drivers. Windows machines are made by multiple 3rd parties with multiple components. Another thing is it's confusing when you have a laptop with say an ATI graphics card and you go to ATI's site it usually recommends that you go to the OEM's site because they modify for their specific hardware.

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Sounds Right To Me
Aug 30, 2013 4:39PM PDT

My smokin' hot spouse has a Windows 7 laptop from Acer with no problems after about a year's use. You certainly can run iTunes on it. It will also accept a Microsoft Works program with no problems.

If you do get an Apple, it will run Windows on it as well. My HP desktop that I bought a year ago runs Windows 7 and still works like a charm, laughing at the internet.

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Sounds right to me
Sep 5, 2013 3:38AM PDT

So what you are saying is, you don't use your machines too much.

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Obviously Deluded!
Aug 30, 2013 2:28PM PDT

Just because someone has an iPad, doesn't mean they've been totally converted to the Dark Side. Apple and it's deluded fans would like to think so, but the reality is Apple OS X is a closed box system w/ few hardware upgrade options or even the ability to fully customize your computing experience.

Whereas anything Windows hardware is extremely customizable and has 1000 times more software available than anything from Apple. Because the hardware is fully open box with a myriad of upgrade parts and software available too. But the main reason I don't recommend anything from Apple except iPads is that their file system is headed for the dumpster.

Why? .....it's still based on legacy MFS from the 70s, it's got a killer time/date bug, it's incapable of running more than one task at a time (except run within other Apps or on files/programs running on HFSX virtual sub file system). The reason is simply because to this day it remains primarily a single threaded file system w/o even a clone of IBM's 'Pervasive Multithreading' engine. That's because it stacks tasks according to it's legacy roots in single threaded hardware of the 70's.

The only real improvement, if you can call it that is what Apple calls 'Preemptive Task Management'. All that added to HFS+ was the ability to suspend one task while the system ran another more important one. Like i said, neither OS X or iOS can run run concurrent tasks, unless they are run within another program/app or within say iTunes. Which runs on it's own virtual sub file system written around 2000. Then Dominic Giampaolo, who wrote BFS system level virtual database file system for BeOS, created HFSX and Spotlight Search Engine for Apple in 2004. But the system level file system remains unchanged as far as the ability to run multiple concurrent tasks or applications, even though Apple claims otherwise it's all smoke and mirrors, other than what I've just explained and even Linus Torvalds has ridiculed Apple for hanging on to an archaic old file system that should have been dumped ages ago!

While Microsoft went to a fully journaled and logged file system with NTFS! ....so with over 85% of the World still using Windows PC's and Laptops, along with not having that HFS+ DATE BUG.... in it's future and having true multi-tasking, tons more software and games...... Windows is still kicking Apple and it's OS X to the curb! ^_*

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Redmont is the dark side
Aug 31, 2013 1:05AM PDT

Trust in the power of the force!

LMAO

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You answered your own question
Aug 23, 2013 10:36AM PDT

Since, based on your existing purchases, you evidently have no problem with the cost and seem to be near an Apple store, make yourself happy and buy the mac books. Just be sure to get the Applecare maximum insurance with them, so if anything goes wrong you can get it fixed quickly and at no charge.

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Care plan worth extra
Aug 31, 2013 1:07AM PDT

The extra warranty is worth its weight in gold. Oh, and there's companies that sell these three years of contentment for less than what Apple does yet once you've registered it - it's still Apple protected. If you get a Mac Air, you'll be using it on battery alone most of the time. The odds of a battery lasting three years is remote at best. Meanwhile there's the over the top Apple support. I've called them over a variety of things and every single time they're kind & professional. In a world where support keeps getting worse, Apple has proven to me there's still companies who understand the value in keeping their customer happy LONG after the sale.

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I have mostly Apple - never had their service programs
Aug 31, 2013 1:10AM PDT

I see the Applecare as an expensive scam.

You can repair apples the same way you do PCs...and they have plenty of access to do so.

Try fixing the disposable cheap Dell laptops some time...with their glued chassis...now there is a real challenge.

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Dell?
Sep 2, 2013 4:23AM PDT

The last Dell I owned was in the late 90's. Think Pad's have been and continue to be my preferred manufacturers of notebooks that run on Windows OS. I'm still quite contented with my newest Y series Idea Pad Lenovo. It's great for when I'm helping people who haven't gone to Apple and I love it for watching Blue Ray movies. Dell is a logical option for those still counting every dollar but of course I'd rather cut out a pizza per month and choose "another" notebook with a bit better quality. I refer to this as my $40 per month rule. I've always saved $40 on an amortization schedule hence I never worry about replacing notebooks down the road. Tech is still a luxury. To me it's all about prioritizing how we want to spend our money.

For really smart people like you, I'll bet Apple care would be a waste of money. The one thing I keep learning is the more I've learned, the less I know hence I enjoy that extra bit of protection and tech support. The better you are at this type of thing, the less you'd need it. I still need it - occasionally.

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Pc or Apple
Aug 23, 2013 10:47AM PDT

I used to support Windows users in a medium size corp. (about 1200 users, both remote and in office, both in the office and in the field). I have since moved myself to Apple and have enjoyed it much more. It is not that e hardware is so much better, it is the operating system. I know longer have to be plagued with updates all the time from both Microsoft and the virus folks. In fact, I,do not even run any virus protection software.

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ANTI-VIRUS....
Aug 30, 2013 10:42PM PDT

DEAR ALL....

THE TOP CONTENDER ALWAYS GETS MORE ATTACKS....


SPYHUNTER AND SUPER-ANTISPYWARE WHICH IS FREE ALONG WITH MALWAREBYTES ANTI-MALWARE OUGHT TO KEEP YOUR *** COVERED.... EVEN IF U DOWNLOAD PIRATED SOFTWARE.... WHICH I THINK IS THE BIGGEST CULPRIT OF WINDOWS SLOWING AND INOPERABILITY....

BEST.... GERSHOM....

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Go with your gut instinct
Aug 23, 2013 10:52AM PDT

Since you appear to be happy with your other Apple products and are actually considering a Mac, a MacBook Pro or MacBook Air should be a good choice, depending on the applications that you use. You will enjoy the ability to sync your data back and forth between your other Apple products via iTunes and iCloud, if you use them, and if you use iMessages, you now have one more device to use to send and receive iMessage that will be synced with your iPad.

One thing is for sure, you get what you pay for. Generally speaking, you will be unsatisfied with a cheap PC after a year. A nice PC that is properly equipped is going to end up costing you about the same as a Mac, but the OS seems to be more stable and less prone to corruption and slowdowns in my experience. I work and program with Windows PC's all day in a manufacturing environment, and I use Macs at home so that I don't have to do some of the same tinkering and constant maintenance when I get home like I do with PC's. Worse come to worse, if you find that some of your apps that you want to use are Mac only and others are Windows only (as has happened to me), you can run Windows in a virtual machine on your mac and have the best of both worlds, since you virtual Windows won't have the bloatware that causes PC's to slow down in the first place.

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Apple vs. PC
Aug 23, 2013 11:02AM PDT

It is interesting to me that we are still having this discussion. So today, my comments will be brief.

In reality Mary, it's not really a decision between MAC or PC. If that surprises you consider this. MACs basically use the same hardware for their core system as PCs do. They use Intel CPUs, Intel and NVIDIA graphics. They even use the same type of memory. The biggest thing that differentiates Apple products from PCs is their Operating Sytem.

MACs in general take the approach that when they sell you a product it has been certified as MAC friendly. You can even run Windows on a MAC if you choose. It would be inaccurate to say that MACs don't have problems, because they do, jut like any other electronic device. But unlike the Windows Operating System, MACs OSX is not as widely available for just anyone to develop applications for it.

I would also say that Apple products in general, use much higher quality materials in packaging their products. What I mean by that is that you see a lot less cheap plastic, and usually a much more ascetic, good looking well made platform. At the end of the day, you are going to pay a lot more for the MAC than the PC. If you spend the same amount of money for a PC, in my opinion you are going to get more for your money in terms of speed, features, and support. Apple has come a long way in closing the gap, but it's still pretty hard to find a MAC under $1,000.00. And that doesn't buy you much. For the same money you can select from a lot of pretty nice PCs with a lot more speed, memory, and better graphics.

At the end of the day it all comes down to what you like and how much you're willing to spend. If you want razor sharp graphics and blazing speed you're going to have to pay for it. For the MAC you're going to pay a premium on top of that. But if your goal is a platform that's never going to have a pop-up, you might just consider using your local computer guy to keep your rig running fast and clean instead of paying an extra $300-$1,000 MORE for the MAC.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into some kind of diatribe about which system is better. I hope instead that we can hear from a number of our members who have owned both platforms and can describe their experiences with both in terms of tangible, measurable differences.

Good Luck Mary

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The thing with WIndows versus Apple is there
Aug 26, 2013 12:51AM PDT

are 300-500 dollar Windows laptops that are made with cheap components and parts. You have laptops between 1000 and 2000 made with excellent parts. You don't have 300 dollar Apple laptops to compare against the Windows machines designed for people that want a cheap computer. You really don't have to compare much when you want to buy an Apple. Basically the only difference between Apple products is screen size whereas HP probable makes at least 10 different 15.6" screen sized laptops with ranges between 400-1500 in price.

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Examine your support structures
Aug 31, 2013 3:08AM PDT

I've been a Mac user for nearly 15 years, but have used Microsoft Windows as well. I like the above writer's comments. I believe there are more important considerations than your hardware. For example what is your present investment (time and money) in software? A second important question rests with platform support structures in terms of family, friends, and accessible professional services. After that pick your screen size and overall package whether Mac or PC. For me my shelf of dated but still useful software keeps me pointed towards Macs. I am, however, attracted towards the Windows 8 platform with compatible workable software running across tablets, laptops, and desktops.