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General discussion

Help Kerry doesn't need, from his old compatriot, Jane

Feb 12, 2004 3:19AM PST

' "This was an organization of men who risked their lives in Vietnam, who considered themselves totally patriotic," Fonda said of Kerry's antiwar group.

Fonda also dismissed attempts to link Kerry to her controversial antiwar past with the photograph as "a dirty black propaganda tactic." '

Jane defends Kerry

Sometimes you just wish people wouldn't try to help don't ya?

roger

Discussion is locked

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Talk about a non-story
Feb 12, 2004 3:40AM PST

They were in the same place at the same time, and it was two years before she did you-know-what.

Big deal.

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I don't particular fault him for being there
Feb 12, 2004 4:14AM PST

But her commenting will probably increase the coverage of the happenstance and will hurt more than help his campaign, unfair perhaps, but likely IMO.

I figure it would have been better to have ignored it than try to explain it away during campaigns. Although I realize that backfires if it grows anyway.

Hard call I guess, try to balence it out and risk increasing the exposure, or try to ignore it and it grows without the other side being told.

The news was sent to me, and I felt it would hurt more than help him. Maybe posting here was just feeding rumor though.

roger

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Re:I don't particular fault him for being there
Feb 12, 2004 4:20AM PST

I saw her on Paula Zahn's show last night talking about it, and it was the first I'd heard of it. But you're right; Jane Fonda talking about Vietnam is potential poison, but you know how smear campaigns are. If you refute the story, you give it legs. If you don't, you give it legs. Unless they've got a telegram from Kerry sent to her in Hanoi saying "You go, girl!" this one does not have legs.

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Just like what's being done to Bush. Except, perhaps there
Feb 12, 2004 11:59AM PST

is a little more substance to this charge.

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(NT) I wouldn't get my hopes up
Feb 12, 2004 10:31PM PST

.

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I can hardly wait for the campaign...
Feb 12, 2004 5:50AM PST

...posters that show a side by side of Kerry, all hippy looking with Hanoi Jane and on the other side George W Bush in his NG uniform. The next poster set a picture of Lt Calley and mention of My Lai on one side, Kerry with a big Question mark and the name of his village atrocity on the other. Yep, "Times they be a'changin'...".

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Sigh, you're probably right, unfortunately, more running by mudslinging by both sides
Feb 12, 2004 6:06AM PST

and not much real substance about what the candidate would do.

Not that campaign speeches about plans mean much, esp regarding the Presidency when you consider that Congress actually controls the purse strings.

roger

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Unfortunately the Democrats have started it, and history shows...
Feb 12, 2004 6:16AM PST

...that being the standup person and ignoring it just doesn't work in politics. In an ideal world it might be different....

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I think that's a great idea!
Feb 12, 2004 10:02PM PST

In fact I think they should do lots of those ads. That way it will make the Bush campaign look

1. Desperate, and
2. Unwilling or unable to campaign on Bush's record or plans for the next 4 years.

Knock yerselves out. Kerry has managed to avoid such tactics so far, which places him head and shoulders above those who resort to such sleaze.

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Careful Josh. It sounds like you're accusing Dave of sl**ze. (NT)
Feb 12, 2004 10:52PM PST

.

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(NT) Dave has not participated in this thread. What do you mean?
Feb 12, 2004 11:07PM PST

.

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How would you characterize his trolling of NG innuendo about Bush?
Feb 12, 2004 11:11PM PST

Do you think it's substantially different than the poster descriptions you're responding to?

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Re:How would you characterize his trolling of NG innuendo about Bush?
Feb 12, 2004 11:34PM PST

Well, yes, because DK's opinions are DK's opinions, not Kerry campaign ads.

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If you actually read mine, and the one that followed...
Feb 13, 2004 1:47AM PST

you will discover it is predicated upon a belief that the dirt tossing from Democrats has already started and that it will begin to predominate the campaign FIRST by them, as usual.

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Particularly when you don't want too much attention drawn to that subject.
Feb 12, 2004 3:53AM PST

I haven't heard that Kerry talks very much about anti-war activities.

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Really?
Feb 12, 2004 4:26AM PST

I've heard him talk about his feelings about Vietnam quite a lot, including a recent interview on 60 Minutes. He got pretty emotional about it too.

Kerry's own website features a bio that is quite up front about it too:

By the time Senator Kerry returned home from Vietnam, he felt compelled to question decisions he believed were being made to protect those in positions of authority in Washington at the expense of the soldiers carrying on the fighting in Vietnam. Kerry was a co-founder of the Vietnam Veterans of America and became a spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War -- Morley Safer would describe him as "a veteran whose articulate call to reason rather than anarchy seemed to bridge the gap between Abbie Hoffman and Mr. Agnew's so-called 'Silent Majority.'" In April 1971, testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he asked the question of his fellow citizens, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" Sen. Claiborne Pell, (D-R.I.) thanked Kerry, then 27, for testifying before the committee, expressing his hope that Kerry "might one day be a colleague of ours in this body."

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Really. Let's see what he says about Vietnam during
Feb 12, 2004 12:02PM PST

his campaign. Do you think he'll agree with Jane?

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Re:Really. Let's see what he says about Vietnam during
Feb 12, 2004 10:03PM PST

Agree with Jane that the war was wrong? He's already done that. So have I. So have lots of people. Your point?

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And let's see, Josh...
Feb 12, 2004 10:37PM PST

Josh, and let's see what he says when somebody asks him why his medals that he threw away in that Capitol demonstration are now displyed on his office wall.
Did you notice that wis web site picture of his testimony before Congress was cropped so that the "fruit salad" (ribbons for the medals) don't show on his fatigues?

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No, is the website still there? or cached? I love what can
Feb 12, 2004 10:55PM PST

be done with a picture (seriously) and would like to see that one.

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Re:And let's see, Josh...
Feb 12, 2004 11:00PM PST

Perhaps he'll say that he's 30 years older now and views his service somewhat differently than he did during that demonstration?

I don't get the question about the cropped photo. I think you're reaching.

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It goes to his current honesty. (NT)
Feb 12, 2004 11:12PM PST

.

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No it doesn't
Feb 12, 2004 11:38PM PST

People grow and change. Reagan was once a Democrat. He became a Republican because his views changed over time. That doesn't make him dishonest.

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If he's currently cropping photos, its his current honesty isn't it? Or,
Feb 13, 2004 1:18AM PST

are you saying the cropping occured in the past? That he was duplicitous in the past, but has seen the light? I may be misunderstanding when the photo was cropped.

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Lots of assumptions there, Kiddpeat
Feb 13, 2004 2:35AM PST

You do not know who cropped the photo or why. Maybe it was simply a design/layout issue? Just what kind of plot do you think is afoot here?

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I don't understand, Josh...
Feb 12, 2004 11:29PM PST

Josh, I don't understand how changing views made those medals that he threw away re-appear. Remember, Josh, it's generally not a good idea to change stories, past ones can sometimes surface again.

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Re:I don't understand, Josh...
Feb 12, 2004 11:45PM PST

I dunno, J, I think you're getting into conspiracy-theory type of stuff here.

See my "No it doesn't" post to Kiddpeat above. I don't think he "changed stories" as you both seem to want to spin it.

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I didn't say, Josh...
Feb 13, 2004 12:40AM PST

Josh, I didn't say that he changed his story about the "boomerang medals", I just said that if he once gave an explanation it might be a bad idea to later give a different explanation.

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Re:I didn't say, Josh...
Feb 13, 2004 12:41AM PST

Agreed, but you're speculating (and presuming the worst) on something that hasn't even happened. If he's asked about it, we'll see what he says.

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That's easy, Josh...
Feb 13, 2004 12:58AM PST

That's easy, Josh, he'll have to say the same thing as the last time, that he threw somebody else's medals.