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General discussion

Help: EDTV or HDTV?

Sep 1, 2005 5:47PM PDT

Hi,

First time to these boards. Many of you seem very knowledgeable and helpful. I hope you can help me out as well.

I get a discount for buying Panasonic TVs so I was considering buying a 42" plasma from them. My choice basically comes down to the TH-42PD50U (EDTV) and the TH-42PD500U (HDTV). The price difference between the two to me is $900.

At first, I was all for the HDTV one. However, after thinking about it awhile, I won't be getting HD programming (wife isn't on board with that) and will use the TV mostly for DVDs and regular viewing (through DirectTV).

Now, my understanding is that DVDs will look the same on either TV, so I get no benefit to DVD-watching if I got the HDTV. Also, what concerned me was the fact that although both have a 16:9 aspect ratio, the native resolution for the HDTV was 1024x768, which is actually a 4:3 ratio.

So correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't that mean that I can't even watch DVD films at full screen? Since those are displayed at 16:9 ratio or higher, there will be black bars on top and bottom with the HDTV. To get rid of those bars, the HDTV would have to zoom in and cut off part of the viewing image on the left and right. Is that correct?

The EDTV, on the other hand, has an 852x480 resolution, which is true 16:9 ratio. That means I can watch DVDs at full screen, or with minimal bars on top and bottom. Correct? If that is the case, isnt the EDTV better for DVD viewing?

I just wanted to confirm that my assessment is correct. I am especially concerned because I was hoping to watch movies full-screen without the whole letterbox thing going on, as if I was in the movie theater. But I am now disappointed that I won't be able to with the HDTV.

Thanks in advance to the community for any advice you can give.

Discussion is locked

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Oops! Meant TH-42PX500U
Sep 1, 2005 5:49PM PDT

I mislabeled the HDTV. I meant to say the TH-42PX500U. My choice is between that and the EDTV 42PD.

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EDTV Is A Technology In Search Of A Purpose, Stick With HD
Sep 1, 2005 10:03PM PDT

My Sony has a "native resolution of 1024 x 1024 and thus, should only be able to display perfectly square pictures (lol). But that's not the way these TV's work. They all have scalers in them that adapt them to the geometry of the actual screen. The only things that will show up as 4:3 without stretching, etc. will be broadcasts that originate in this aspect ratio. Hopefully, as time moves on, there will be less and less of this crap until it's essentially unheard of by 2007.
HD is the wave of the future, don't be caught with a betamax VCR player in a VHS world, if you get my drift.
Also, $900 differential seems pretty steep for a guy getting an employee discount. What are the actual prices you can pay for these two? What percent discount are you being offered.
I'd only get the ED if you absolutely couldn't afford the extra $900.
Hope this helps.

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Interesting
Sep 2, 2005 2:33AM PDT

So basically you are saying that I can watch at full screen without black bars because the HDTV has scalers that can stretch the picture to fit without distorting the image?

What do widescreen images look like on your 1024x1024 screen? I'm trying to picture that in my mind, since like you said, that should mean you only watch square images. =)

Also, I can get the 42PD50U for $1400 and the 42PX500U for $2300.

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Re:
Sep 2, 2005 2:50AM PDT

...If the program is broadcast in 16:9 aspect ratio, the TV will show it as such. If the incoming signal is 4:3, it will show with grey bars on the left and right. There's really no acceptable way around this other than to "stretch" the picture which I despise and I find utterly unacceptable. My only solace is that in a year or two, there will be no more of this 4:3 garbage....all broadcasts will be 16:9 as they should be. In HD too!

I checked the street prices of the HD set you mentioned and it looks like you're saving at least $1400 off what you'd pay retail (Vanns.com, a very fair and reliable store, has it for $3599). Don't even think of the ED unit, go HD, you'll be way happier in the long run!
Good luck.

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Subject
Sep 2, 2005 3:45AM PDT

Hmmm. Didn't realize my discount was so large.

So forgive me for being obtuse. But I am still having trouble reconciling the fact that the HDTV has a 16:9 aspect ratio but the native resolution is at 4:3 ratio, since 1024x768 res = 4:3.

And of course, your TV has a 1:1 ratio. Apparently, I don't use my brain often enough cuz I can't picture it. So when a hi-def or enh-def TV/DVD signal comes to a TV, is it sent as an 16:9 signal? And if your TV doesn't have the right resolution (i.e. 16 horizontal for every 9 vertical pixels), what happens to the image?

To avoid the black bars, do I need to pay more attention to the aspect ratio number or the resolution number?

Thanks and again, sorry for being so obtuse.

=)

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Not A Problem....
Sep 2, 2005 5:16AM PDT

...I'm not really a tech type, but my limited understanding of all this is that all TV's will display in the aspect ratio the program is broadcast in and that the only way to overcome this (if, for instance you wanted to watch a 4:3 broadcast in 16:9) is to engage in cropping technologies like "stretching," etc. As I said, I find any of these alteration algorithms entirely unacceptable and unwatchable. All TV's have scalers to broadcast the signal in the format it was broadcast. The "native resolution" issue (i.e. 1024 x 1024, 1024x76Cool really has no visible effect on what you see (other trhan in the absolute level of detail where, of course, the higher the number, the better).
Hope this helps a bit. Hopefully one of our more technically proficient posters can explain this more accurately than I've been able to.

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Aspect ratios
Sep 2, 2005 7:28AM PDT

This is not as complicated as it seems. Native resolution has nothing to do with what aspect ratio ratio the DVD is veiwed in. DVD's usually fall into one of three aspect ratios- 4:3, 16:9, and widescreen anamorphic. 4:3 is your standard 'TV sized' image, 16:9 is standard widescreen format (like the sets you are considering), and anamorphic is similar to what you see in a movie theatre.

Many DVD movies from theatrical release are in anamorphic widescreen and will have black bars at the top and bottom of the screen no matter what TV set you view it on. The black bars will vary in width depending on the exact aspect ratio used during the shooting of the movie (often 2.35:1). The only way to eliminate the bars is to use the TV's zoom function, which will crop the content and alter the movie somewhat.

16:9 movies are usually 'made-for-widescreen', with the intention of a widescreen TV being its primary display source. A good example of this is a Discovery network special sold on DVD. It was released initially for a television audience and filmed correspondingly. Very few DVDs are in 4:3 nowadays, this is usually reserved for standard definition television broadcasts.

As for your resolution questions, a TV set will (usually) scale the image you are watching to a certain resolution. This is its native resolution. DVD's are currently in 480p, which happens to be the native resolution of EDTV sets. Some people claim that since the DVD image does not need to be scaled EDTV sets are better for DVD viewing, with the logic being that the picture quality is unaltered. For what its worth, I have a Sony set with a native resolution of 768p and I can't tell a difference. Purists may argue this.

As for a recommendation, I would say get the HDTV set since this is a big purchase (one you might not be able to make again for some time) and you never know if HDTV is in your near future, especially as HD broadcasting becomes more accessible. Even now (assuming you're in the right area) you can buy a $30 indoor antenna and get HD broadcasts over-the-air from the major networks for no additional cost. There is a fairly noticable difference between EDTV and HDTV resolution.

Hope this clarifies/helps in your decision making process.

Russ

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Thanks
Sep 2, 2005 5:11PM PDT

That was an extremely helpful and informative post. It actually helps clear up a lot. I think I will be getting the HDTV. Apparently, the price I can get it at is a good deal.

Thanks again.

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EDTV or HDTV?
Sep 2, 2005 1:34AM PDT

Looking at the Panasonic web site the current models are
TH-42PX50U and TH-42PX500U both are HDTV 1024x768. The models you listed are last years #.
3 years from now you may want to get HDTV and you will only have a EDTV to watch it on.
Set you computer monitor to 640x480 and then to 1024x768.
See which you like best.
Plasmas will last for many years, like about 20 with average viewing. The $900 difference over the many years will be very little. John

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But...
Sep 2, 2005 2:36AM PDT

I thought the difference in image is none though if you arent getting an HD broadcast, right? Isn't the monitor analogy a little different because your video card can send a 1024x768 signal and then your monitor displays it. But with my situation, I won't be sending any HD signal to my TV. So won't there be no difference when watching DVDs?

I guess you could also be I should get the HDTV for future HD content.

Although I figure I can get me the EDTV now and maybe years from now buy the 50" HDTV plasma. =)

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All Broadcasts Will Be HD Within Two Years....
Sep 2, 2005 5:19AM PDT

...And your ED set will not be able to display them adequately. Face it, HD is the wave of the not too very distant future, why be left with a dinosaur?

For $900 difference, do it right the first time. Don't forget, these sets will last a minimum of 15-20 years. Who are you going to sell an ED set to in a couple of years? You'd be lucky to get 10% of what you paid.

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Incorrect
Sep 2, 2005 8:17AM PDT

Your statement references an FCC mandate which has to do with the method of signal transmission. The mandate states that public airwaves must adopt a new broadcast standard (called '8VSB'). This essentially means that public broadcasters must shut off analog broadcasts and carry only digital signals. This is DTV, not HDTV.

The amount of HD quality broadcasts will continue to increase but if you're expecting everthing you see on your TV to be HD in a few years, you're going to be scratching your head and wondering what happened. It's going to take much longer han that. The FCC mandate also does not apply largely to cable and satellite providers as this is paid programming, not 'public airwaves' as such.

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take my advice?
Sep 2, 2005 6:01AM PDT

I dont know why you would want to buy a edtv I have never even seen one.+ true hi-def 1080 sets are real affordable. Anyway mabey I can give you a little advice. I just bought a SONY KP-WV600 65" ten ton 3 tube rear projector set for CHEAP $2500, I had the standard direct t.v standard sat system, and when I called them to upgrade to the hi-def system they wanted $500, So I called the DISH NETWORK and they Gave me there 811 hi-def system for $49.00 + gave me credit on the $49.00 on my billing FREE, The only other thing I had to buy was a d.v.i. cable and now Iam in hi-def heaven, I pay about $45.00 per month for basic+ the hi-def package + VOOM and with the awsome over the air Hi-def tuner and a cheap outside antenna I recieve 21 hi-def channels,Also the 811 has optical audio output for your 5.1 audio system.In closing If this sounds good for you contact me at cadillacstew@aol.com and I will give you a number so when you call dish give them that number and you will get extra goodies and I will get $5.00 of my bill for a year goo0d luck steart norrie