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General discussion

HELP: Can you make DIGITAL prints to approach FILM quality?

Dec 19, 2004 8:31AM PST

Ok, here goes:

In the last few months, I've went through about 4 different Sony Cybershot cameras (Sony, because I already bought a Sony memory stick), and I returned each one because I was not happy with the quality of the prints.

I've been told by MANY people that the 5MP Cybershot should produce magnificent 4x6, and even 8x11 quality shots.
For some reason, I haven't gotten that.

I'm not sure if I'm being too picky, and expecting too much: Can a print from a digital camera ever approach the quality of the 35mm film camera?

I have an HP Photosmart 7350 Photo printer, and I've printed out exellent pictures before, but it seems that in my digital images, the problem is in the camera itself.

What I find is that my digi photos & prints are not sharp enough, not SATURATED enough (a big issue for me), and when I try to print it, you can see grain that you cannot see from a film print.

Am I doing something wrong? What can I do to fix all of this?

Thanks!

Discussion is locked

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Better Photo Prints
Dec 19, 2004 9:47AM PST

There are all kinds of posibilities here.

If you want a print size of around 8 x 10, the photo should be something like 2048x1536 pixels (or higher). A camera with 3 megapixels can do this.

The first thing you want to do is make sure that you are setting the right options on the printer.

Make sure that you are using a good grade of glossy photo paper.

Just before you print, a window will appear that will let you check your printer setup. HP has lots of options for printing. You should make sure you are telling it that you are going to be printing on glossy photo paper. That will cause the printer to go into its best print mode for photos.

Some HP printers have an option that will let you adjust brilliance.

If things are set right, it should take several minutes to print a full page photo. If it takes less that a minute, you do not have the printer set-up correctly.

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Thank You, But ...
Dec 20, 2004 7:20AM PST

Thank You,
But I'm still convinced that it has something to do with the camera, since my printer printed out beautiful photos from other sources, but from the camera they seem lackluster.

The prints still feel too grainy, and a bit unsaturated.

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Yes, but. Many professional photographers now work
Dec 19, 2004 12:42PM PST

solely with digital cameras. Are they getting results which are as good, or better, than 35mm film? Of course. If they weren't, they probably wouldn't be using the digital camera.

Are they using a Sony 5meg pixel, point and shoot? No.

As I recall, 35mm film gives you about 15meg pixels. The larger you print (i.e. 8x10), the more you will see the difference in resolution if you look very closely. Most people don't look that closely, and are quite happy. The pros are using 10-11meg pixel and higher cameras. These are DSLR, not point and shoot. They also have very high quality lenses to augment the high quality camera.

Another advantage that film has is that your prints are being made using professional equipment. The equipment probably tweaks the photos for color, saturation, etc., and the equipment is optimized to print the image on the paper you receive. If you simply print what came from your camera, none of this optimization is occuring. You might be able to improve your results by sending, or taking, the digital image to a professional print making operation. Wolf Camera, Walmart, Sam's Club, and a variety on online services are available.

If you want better results on your own equipment, you should probably invest in an image editing program like Adobe Photoshop Elements. That will let you start fixing some of the problems your images have. It will also open the door to creativity with the image.

You might also have trouble matching the color you see on the computer screen with what the printer prints. If so, you will either need to compensate in the editing program, or get into the area of Color Matching.

I hope this gives you some idea of which direction to go.

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PS: If you really want to compare film & digital, a photo
Dec 19, 2004 3:32PM PST

printer like the Epson 2200 or higher is indicated.

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Try your local one hour photo for film quality
Dec 19, 2004 11:34PM PST

I finally gave up on my HP "Photosmart" printer after wasting 30 pages of photo paper and getting unprofessional results.

My suggestion - go to Walgreens or Eckerds (now CVS) take a cd of your photos to the photo center and have them print your photos out. I PROMISE you if you have done your work prior to (ie color correction and had a decent image to start with) you will not be disappointed. They come out looking exactly like a real photograph and for .22 per print you cant go wrong (price may vary of course but its somewhere around that) and comes out on excellant photo paper.

I recently shot an 80th birthday party with simply a point and shoot camera (no zoom either) and with my photoshop skills was able to clean up the pictures, take them to one-hour photo and got professional looking results. Granted now Im using the Drebel and can't wait to see the new results!

Good luck!

Acts7

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Thank You, it really helped. A few more questions:
Dec 20, 2004 7:49AM PST

Thank You, it really helped. A few more question:
I'm an amateur enthousiast, and I'm only in 1st year university, and photography is only my hobby.

With that said, I don't think I will require a high-end camera, and I don't think I can affor one.

But I still would like a decent quality camera.
I know Sony has a few affordable cameras that are not point & shoot, like the Cybershot DSCW1. I think it's organized under the "professional" cameras from Sony.
How would this one be different from a point and shoot camera?

And a bit off topic, but I'll ask it anyway: I know I asked this before, but I hope you can see what I'm looking for ... do you think that Sony is the way to go? Or could another camera better suit my needs?

Another off topic: Do all pictures from ALL digi cam brands look undersaturated, or is it just Sony? They look very bland, and not colourful! Additionally, I just printed out a few more pics, and I noticed that they're very blurry. It's not very sharp, it's almost like an impressionist drew it! Also looks a bit like the "Glass"(under Distort) in Photoshop. Check these out for example: http://www.sonystyle.ca/view/DSCLanding/photo.shtml?categoryId=32090

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Sony
Dec 20, 2004 10:25AM PST

Sony marches to a different drummer on some of their digital cameras. The W1 has manual controls but not to the extent of say the Canon A75 (a good low cost learning camera).

For someone with a bigger pocketbook, look at the Olympus 5060 or Canon G6 or Sony V3.

A point-n-shoot camera is considered one that has few manual controls. Some have scene modes that give you some control of the photo. But this is not a learning camera if you want to know more about photography.

To see what kind of photos other cameras can take, go to:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html

This site probably reviews more cameras than anyone else. Each review has sample photos at full size.

I was unable to download the sample photos from the Sony site because my satelite internet connection is down. I am back to using the old dial-up. Downloading large files on dial-up is painful.

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Thanks!
Dec 20, 2004 12:12PM PST

You answered many of my questions! Thanks a lot. I think I have a better understanding now.

Oh, and I don't have a bigger pocketbook, as I said, I'm just a university first year student.
And since I want to make my Sony memory card useful, I will probably go for the W1.
You think that is still worth it's price, and is a good learning camera, with a fair amount of manual controls?

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Destop Printing will (almost) never yield film results
Dec 20, 2004 2:30PM PST

I would say that your first problem is that you are comparing a print made with ink from a desktop printer to a film print made with a chemical printer.
Although desktop printers do have very good quality, they tend to accentuate the imperfections in digital images, such as grain and pixelation.
Secondly, because I work in a photolab/camera sales shop, I have found that Sony Digital cameras consistently produce lower quality images than all other cameras.
For best image quality, go with a Nikon, Fuji, Canon, or Minolta camera.
I would bring your files into a REAL photolab to see if there is an improvement in the quality; and it costs less per print also.

p.s. check the compression settings on your camera, often the default is the mid-quality setting.

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HELP: Can you make DIGITAL prints to approach FILM quality?
Dec 26, 2004 12:21PM PST

First of all, let's do a little troubleshooting. Does your camera allow you to set different image resolutions? Most do. Check your manual to determine this. If so, set it to a higher resolution. Some cameras, by default, take photos at the lowest resolution (suitable for sharing on the web, but not good enough for prints).
To answer your primary question...this is a topic which is hotly debated...can digital match film?
Well..yes...and no. It depends upon what the end print is used for. It also depends on which film camera you are comparing to which digital camera. Obviously, my Minolta 35mm film camera yeilds MUCH better photos than a very low end digital. My Minolta Maxxum 7D digital SLR, on the other hand, yeilds MUCH better results than a low end film camera--one needs to compare apples and oranges.
As to print quality--I am not at all convinced that any inkjet print has the archival properties and waterand fade resistance that a conventional photographic print has. Try getting a typical inkjet print wet and/or keep it in strong sunlight for a period of time, and see what happens!
www.bolesphotography.net