Speakeasy forum

Praise

HE'S BACK!!!

by JP Bill / June 1, 2012 12:12 PM PDT
In Jail, That is

Judge orders Zimmerman back to jail in Trayvon Martin killing; says bond amount based on lie


SANFORD, Fla. - Trayvon Martin's shooter must return to jail, a judge ordered Friday in a strongly worded ruling that said George Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court about their finances to obtain bond in a case that hinges on jurors believing his account of what happened the night the teen was killed.

Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder for the February shooting. The neighbourhood watch volunteer says he shot Martin in self-defence because the unarmed 17-year-old was beating him up after confronting Zimmerman about following him in a gated community outside Orlando.


Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Prov. After being tricked once, one should be wary, so that the person cannot trick you again

I guess he can kiss a "Judge Only" trial goodbye. Now he'll have to try and fool a jury.
Discussion is locked
You are posting a reply to: HE'S BACK!!!
The posting of advertisements, profanity, or personal attacks is prohibited. Please refer to our CNET Forums policies for details. All submitted content is subject to our Terms of Use.
Track this discussion and email me when there are updates

If you're asking for technical help, please be sure to include all your system info, including operating system, model number, and any other specifics related to the problem. Also please exercise your best judgment when posting in the forums--revealing personal information such as your e-mail address, telephone number, and address is not recommended.

You are reporting the following post: HE'S BACK!!!
This post has been flagged and will be reviewed by our staff. Thank you for helping us maintain CNET's great community.
Sorry, there was a problem flagging this post. Please try again now or at a later time.
If you believe this post is offensive or violates the CNET Forums' Usage policies, you can report it below (this will not automatically remove the post). Once reported, our moderators will be notified and the post will be reviewed.
Collapse -
I'll correct myself
by JP Bill / June 1, 2012 1:07 PM PDT
In reply to: HE'S BACK!!!

The Judge ordered Zimmerman returned to jail by Sunday afternoon, He's not in jail yet/now.

I wonder if Zimmerman will think he hears "you don't need to do that"

Collapse -
By that emoticon
by Steven Haninger / June 1, 2012 7:56 PM PDT
In reply to: I'll correct myself

you obviously really dislike the guy even though I suspect you've never spent one minute in his presence. Prejudice is such a terrible disease in that no proximity to another person is required. It can come right through the news network and attack those with low immunity to it. Wink

Collapse -
RE: you obviously really dislike the guy
by JP Bill / June 1, 2012 9:16 PM PDT
In reply to: By that emoticon

OR I could look at it as Trayvon getting SOME justice.


No comment on the fact he was caught lying?

Will you still try and set up scenarios where Zimmerman was the victim, based on HIS undocumented claims?

Collapse -
Nope
by Steven Haninger / June 1, 2012 10:06 PM PDT

Won't make blanket personal judgements about either person based on what comes over the news wires. There is no justice for anyone when we allow that to happen. Jailing Zimmerman isn't justice for Martin. It's to feed smugness and justify prejudice in others. It's more harmful than good, IMO.

Collapse -
RE: Won't make blanket personal judgements
by JP Bill / June 1, 2012 10:50 PM PDT
In reply to: Nope
Won't make blanket personal judgements about either person based on what comes over the news wires.

Then you won't be taking a position on anything you read or hear...just asking questions and setting up different scenarios?

Scenarios that don't make a statement, scenarios that favour one side and not the other.

But you won't make a judgement...you'll just let others guess what your position is.
Collapse -
Are you trying to guess mine?
by James Denison / June 2, 2012 12:04 AM PDT

I'd like to see Neighborhood Watch start a fund to aid in arming all Watch Volunteers. If anyone needs extra protection when out there doing for others, it's them. You don't send Volunteer Fire Fighters off to fight a fire with nothing but the shirt on their back, you provide them the equipment they need. Neighborhood Watch should be the same and provide night sticks and handguns to those watching out for the neighborhoods. Where's the police when you need them? Usually not as close as the Neighborhood Watch person.

Collapse -
RE: Neighborhood Watch should be the same
by JP Bill / June 2, 2012 10:10 AM PDT
Neighborhood Watch should be the same and provide night sticks and handguns

WHY call them Neighborhood Watch?

Why not call them Neighborhood Police?

While we're reorganizing the country, let's set up a bunch of fiefdoms (Something over which one dominant person or group exercises control).
Collapse -
Yes, that might work
by James Denison / June 2, 2012 11:03 AM PDT

Might need different names for them than "police" though to still distinguish that difference. Perhaps "deputies" or "volunteer deputies"?
"dep-u-ty
(dpy-t)
n. pl. dep-u-ties
1. A person appointed or empowered to act for another.
2. An assistant exercising full authority in the absence of his or her superior and equal authority in
emergencies: a deputy to the sheriff.
3. A representative in a legislative body in certain countries.

dep-u-ty
[dep-yuh-tee] Show IPA noun, plural dep-u-ties.
1.a person appointed or authorized to act as a substitute for another or others.
2.deputy sheriff.
3.a person appointed or elected as assistant to a public official, serving as successor in the event of a
vacancy.
4.a person representing a constituency in certain legislative bodies.
adjective
5.appointed, elected, or serving as an assistant or second-in-command. "

Collapse -
Since it's a fiefdom...
by JP Bill / June 2, 2012 11:15 AM PDT
In reply to: Yes, that might work

Never mind deputies....

How bout Barney Fifes? and you could just number them BF1, BF 2 and so on.

fief...fife...that's pretty close.

Collapse -
Neighborhood Watches are ...
by Edward ODaniel / June 5, 2012 2:27 PM PDT

set up with local police assistance and co-operation and actually become a component of the local Police Force as they are "a body of people officially maintained or employed to keep order, enforce regulations, etc." (they are generally volunteers so they are not generally employed although that is not hard and fast as many communities have "rent-a-cops" who are also members of and aligned with the community Neighborhood Watch.

Your ignorance is showing.

Collapse -
RE: Your ignorance is showing
by JP Bill / June 5, 2012 8:46 PM PDT

Please be more specific...IF that's possible.

Give exact parts of the Neighbourhood Watch program that you think I am ignorant of.

OTHER THAN the way I spell neighboUrhood.

It's strange that YOUR definition of Neighborhood Watch is the same as the Dictionary definition of POLICE

a body of people officially maintained or employed to keep order, enforce regulations, etc.

Neighbourhood Watch can ENFORCE regulations?

No mention of WATCHING in your definition

OH, and welcome back, Edward.

Collapse -
Let's keep this polite please
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / June 5, 2012 8:52 PM PDT

No need for that.

Mark

Collapse -
Fault finding solves nothing and finding which way
by Steven Haninger / June 2, 2012 12:39 AM PDT

to point a finger is never an objective.

I don't know what you've read or listened to regarding the Zimmerman/Martin case and the evidence available thus far but can tell you that I've done plenty of it and there's no end of finding the digested material dropped by others out there as well. If asked to guess about what happened between Zimmerman and Martin, I'd say we are likely dealing with an overreaction type response by both persons. Thus, both would share blame for the escalation of the confrontation to its ending. Martin paid with his life. If Zimmerman has any kind of a conscience, he'll be paying for the rest of his life whether in prison or not.

So to whom does Zimmerman owe a debt, how should he pay it and how will that satisfy anyone? That, I can't answer at all. I can say that, if it becomes necessary for us to apply a corrective action that will be painful to another human being, we should never do so with smiles on our faces.

Collapse -
trial by press
by James Denison / June 1, 2012 11:48 PM PDT
In reply to: Nope

The judge and prosecutor have said they don't want this case to be tried in the press, yet they are doing more to make it that way by responding to public pressure. Zimmerman may end up looking at an appeal AFTER this to actually find justice.

Collapse -
Lying?
by James Denison / June 1, 2012 11:46 PM PDT

Or misunderstanding? Did Zimmerman even know how much money had been raised for his defense at the time the hearing for bail was done? Also Paypal puts time restrictions on when funds can be withdrawn, so that might not have "been available" at the time, even if in the account. Sounds to me like the prosecutor and judge have a burr under the saddle on this and time to get off their high horse for a bit.

Collapse -
RE: Or misunderstanding?
by JP Bill / June 2, 2012 1:04 AM PDT
In reply to: Lying?

AND perhaps YOU'RE misunderstanding.

Are you be offended that I suggested the same of you? Of course you're not charged with a criminal offense, and you don't need a defense.

He was "speaking in tongues" to his wife on the prison phone.

His lawyer probably told him that everything said of prison phones is recorded(IF he didn't, even I know that, and I'm not on Neighbourhood Watch)...Did Z listen...OH NO!!!!he figured he could outsmart the fuzz, NO ONE was going to tell him what to do.

Collapse -
Time to call you out
by Steven Haninger / June 2, 2012 1:50 AM PDT

If after gathering what you could in the news and George Zimmerman's fate was entirely in your hands today, what would you do?

Collapse -
(NT) Keep him in jail until the trial.
by JP Bill / June 2, 2012 2:56 AM PDT
In reply to: Time to call you out
Collapse -
What would you do?
by JP Bill / June 2, 2012 2:59 AM PDT
In reply to: Time to call you out

IF you say let him free UNTIL the trial, please explain what he did to make you think he deserves that privilege.


It is a privilege NOT a right.

Collapse -
Actually not a privilege but a right rooted in English law
by Steven Haninger / June 2, 2012 4:33 AM PDT
In reply to: What would you do?

and carried over to US constitutional law regarding those accused of crime. He has the right to a speedy trial heard by a jury of his peers. Bail cannot be excessive. Bail can be denied or revoked at state level for reasons of public interest. Three reasons could be:

1. Public safety...the defendant has a past history of violence and would continue to be a threat.
2. Defendant does not reside in that state
3. Defendant has a history of flight...jumping bail, that is.

You could probably use #1 if you could show Zimmerman to have already left a trail of violence in his wake prior to shooting Martin. # 2 and 3 do not apply.

As for the "surprise" money, this was known weeks ago and even discussed here. As I recall, the question centered around the intended use for the defense fund and whether or not Zimmerman had discretionary access to it. If it was for legal defense only, that means to defray attorney fees and not for bail money. If that's truly the case, Zimmerman's claim of net worth is likely more accurate. Being that we require proof of guilt to enact a judgment against someone, I'd be willing to listen to Zimmerman without prejudice about these financial details as well. He'd be free on bail unless substantial proof of fraud with malicious intent could be shown.

We have adequate means to monitor his movements already. With so many criminals out on the streets due to faulty trials, lack of evidence, etc., I'd be hard pressed to put Zimmerman in the slammer other than to protect him from the harm that could be inflicted on him by others prior to trial. From what I've been able to read, I'd have no fear if Zimmerman and I were the only two people sharing an elevator ride.

Actually, I think that I would be fully capable of sitting on the jury at his trial and be fair to both him and the deceased Martin but I'd also fear the backlash of a decision that some didn't consider as severe enough.

Collapse -
IF it's a right
by JP Bill / June 2, 2012 4:39 AM PDT

How come he's in jail? WHY isn't his lawyer screaming?

You still didn't answer What would you do?

Collapse -
Surely I did answer it
by Steven Haninger / June 2, 2012 4:57 AM PDT
In reply to: IF it's a right

You furthered the question with a possible answer...that being would he be free on bail until the trial. I indicated "yes". He would be free if none of the mentioned dis-qualifiers existed. That's the answer to your extended question. I also indicated that I feel perfectly qualified to be seated on a jury in his trial. That would require the showing of lack of prejudice with respect to guilt or innocence at this time.

It's not always easy resisting the lure of the poisoned ink used by the press but it can be done. Happy

Collapse -
(NT) His lawyers are screaming.
by Diana Forum moderator / June 4, 2012 11:20 PM PDT
In reply to: IF it's a right
Collapse -
That's what they're paid for.
by JP Bill / June 5, 2012 12:22 AM PDT

That and take as much blame for their clients actions as they can, without committing a crime themselves..

Your Honor, My client had sent me the papers and I was away that day and didn't read the file before I came to court, he didn't know there was money there, he knew there was money there, but he didn't know how much, he didn't trust anybody, he was afraid, he was confused. Those are things your lawyer will "feel' were reasons for not doing something...they throw a bunch of stuff and see what sticks.

The audio recordings of Mr. Zimmerman's phone conversations while in jail make it clear that Mr. Zimmerman knew a significant sum had been raised by his original fundraising website. We feel the failure to disclose these funds was caused by fear, mistrust, and confusion. The gravity of this mistake has been distinctly illustrated, and Mr. Zimmerman understands that this mistake has undermined his credibility, which he will have to work to repair..

Collapse -
There is also
by TONI H / June 5, 2012 2:52 AM PDT

an argument that could be raised that funds for a 'legal defense' doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with bail bond money.

Collapse -
No there isn't
by Josh K / June 5, 2012 4:22 AM PDT

He was asked how much money he had and he lied.

Following your logic, anyone could hide hundreds of thousands of dollars in getaway money by saying, "Well, that's not for me, that's a reserve for my defense lawyers."

Collapse -
Actually he didn't testify
by Diana Forum moderator / June 5, 2012 7:37 AM PDT

His wife, over the phone, said they didn't have any money.

Diana

Collapse -
RE: As for the "surprise" money,
by JP Bill / June 2, 2012 4:53 AM PDT

this was known weeks ago and even discussed here.

The prosecutor probably doesn't read SE posts, Unlike us, they have access to information such as bank accounts, phone records and they check their facts before making a judgement on whether to make an appeal to a Judge (an uninterested person) and have them make an informed ruling.

Our job is to impute motive on why someone does something, that we either agree with or disagree with.

To put it bluntly...we make uninformed rulings...and we're ALL very good at it.

But anyways...What would you do?

Collapse -
About that motive...why someone does something
by Steven Haninger / June 2, 2012 10:12 AM PDT

Maybe the way to know ones motivation is simply to follow an old proverb that says something like "Before judging a man, walk two moons in his moccasins."
It's not that bad. Moccasins can be quite comfortable.

Collapse -
"Before judging a man walk two moons in his moccasins.
by JP Bill / June 2, 2012 10:19 AM PDT

Did It take you that long to reach a verdict on the jury you served on?

I'm guessing no.

Popular Forums
icon
Computer Newbies 10,686 discussions
icon
Computer Help 54,365 discussions
icon
Laptops 21,181 discussions
icon
Networking & Wireless 16,313 discussions
icon
Phones 17,137 discussions
icon
Security 31,287 discussions
icon
TVs & Home Theaters 22,101 discussions
icon
Windows 7 8,164 discussions
icon
Windows 10 2,657 discussions

Does BMW or Volvo do it best?

Pint-size luxury and funky style

Shopping for a new car this weekend? See how the BMW X2 stacks up against the Volvo XC40 in our side-by-side comparison.