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Question

HDD may be failing; not sure

Mar 24, 2014 9:26AM PDT

Incoming story:

About a couple months ago, it started getting cold here. Now, I live in Florida so it didn't get *cold* but colder than usual. Colder than my computer is used to, I'd imagine. My PC displays a temp reading on the front (it's a custom built) which is usually about 25-26° when I boot it up on any normal morning. During those cold weeks, it was down to about 22° when starting up.

On one of those mornings, I got hit with a CHKDSK on boot. I didn't think anything of it and so I let it run and then went about my day. Over the next couple of days, I got some Windows popups telling me that a file or two here and there may be corrupted and that I should run a CHKDSK to see what's going on. And so, I did it. Then CHKDSK happened again the next day and once again the day after that.

It stopped CHKDSK for a few weeks and I'd hoped I'd seen the end of it until it happened again a couple days ago. Upon watching it, it was deleting a few files - not many but they appeared to be mostly unimportant asset files and a .png or two. It wanted to do it again this morning, though I skipped past it because I do not like the idea of my files being deleted automatically.

Now, I'm a very heavy computer user. I do my work on my PC and have a very large amount of personal/important files that I cannot lose. So, things like this make me very, very nervous.

I did some research on my own and found a thread where someone suggested using a drive checking utility. So, I used the maufacturer's (Western Digital) Data Lifeguard Diagnostic. It passed the initial check of the drive, but when I tried to Quick Test the disk, it failed with the following information:
Test Option: QUICK TEST
Model Number: WDC WD2002FAEX-007BA0
Unit Serial Number: WD-WMAY05232910
Firmware Number: 05.01D05
Capacity: 2000.40 GB
SMART Status: PASS
Test Result: FAIL
Test Error Code: 06-Quick Test on drive 1 did not complete! Status code = 07 (Failed read test element), Failure Checkpoint = 97 (Unknown Test) SMART self-test did not complete on drive 1!
Test Time: 18:49:10, March 24, 2014

Now, I also tried using a program called "HD Tune" to check my drive for errors. Every single one of the sectors/blocks came back green, indicating it found no errors in any blocks on the drive.

I also have some pictures snapped from my phone the last time it ran. I'm not sure if their information will be of any use, but I'll post them here just in case they are useful.
http://s28.postimg.org/f2z970jr1/IMG_20140321_080507.jpg
http://s18.postimg.org/qwexzjza1/IMG_20140321_080724.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/5ovo5izkx/IMG_20140321_080942.jpg
http://s29.postimg.org/3nls5iief/IMG_20140321_080950.jpg

So, I believe that's it. If there's anything else that's needed from me, I shall supply it. I did backup my files, managing to cram most of my important ones into a 500 GB external HD, but I'm still hoping for a solution that doesn't involve reformatting or needing a new HDD.

Thanks for your time and patience.

Discussion is locked

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Clarification Request
C or F?
Mar 24, 2014 9:39AM PDT
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Check my tutorials on this..
Mar 25, 2014 10:28AM PDT
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(NT) I didn't see how this tackles the use of the drive at 22C
Mar 25, 2014 10:32AM PDT
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Ok, your point is taken but i have explained below:
Mar 26, 2014 1:59AM PDT

If you use that application in my tutorial, it therefore helps you check the Status of your hard-drive; showing its working temperatures and its performance level and finally the health of the Hard-Drive. So, the answer to your question is that your worrying about the temperature issue will be resolved by seeing that whether 22C is a postive or negative working temperature for the drive.

In all fairness, I would tell you that 22C is a perfectly fine and working temperature for your HDD. The lower the temperature of your drive the better the performance is. I hope this has helped. Thanks

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22C is not fine.
Mar 26, 2014 2:41AM PDT

It's just outside many drives rated operating range and as such can induce odd problems.

My guess is you want folk to have trouble?
Bob

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Answer
I'd change it before it's all gone.
Mar 24, 2014 9:38AM PDT

But if as you say you have backups (plural is so important) then can you recover your system if it fails today?

That is, some folk don't have recovery media (didn't make, keep or obtain.)
Bob

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Yes
Mar 24, 2014 10:05AM PDT

As I said, I did backup most of my important files. I say "most" because the rest of what I didn't backup is mostly programs and settings which would be a pain to reinstall.

And yes, that was in Celsius. I did neglect to mention that.

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At 22C all bets are off if it's a real failure.
Mar 24, 2014 10:32AM PDT

Well, the failure is real, but it could be fine if you had it up to temp.

But that aside, let's say I plugged in a blank HDD. Would you be OK with that?

Given we can back it all up to an external drive folder with say Clonezilla for free, restore would be just a 10 to 20 minute job?
Bob

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Not what I wanted to hear
Mar 24, 2014 10:40AM PDT

I have a pretty grandiose amount of files that I doubt restoration would just be a 10-20 minute job. Again, I'd like to exhaust all options before a reformat/replacement.

Anyway aside from that, like I said, the amount of files that seem to be in peril appears very minimal. In fact, I think I've nailed it down to two folders on my entire HDD. The "corrupted files" popup only seems to be coming from those two destinations and said popup hasn't shown itself in some time.

What about unsetting a dirty bit?

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Last week restored a 500GB laptop with Clonezilla
Mar 24, 2014 10:50AM PDT

20 minutes from external to internal drive. Mind you the machine was no slouch but given free backup tools such as Clonezilla that I can place an entire HDD into one folder to restore completely and this isn't the only solution in town, why folk aren't ready is always a good discussion.

As to the dirty bit that's all over the internet and from the screen shots is not what I would diagnose. The 22C is pushing your luck.
Bob

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22C
Mar 24, 2014 10:56AM PDT

I don't understand why that's considered "too cold." The temperature here had dropped to about 45, since I'm in Florida. Most places in the world were A LOT colder than that. The 22C was only the boot-up temp anyway, it's not like it stayed there for very long.

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This is why I vetted my answer with a link about temperature
Mar 24, 2014 11:17AM PDT

My advice is to either change it or be ready.
Bob

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Clonezilla
Mar 24, 2014 11:40AM PDT

I notice that one of the limitations of Clonezilla is "The destination partition must be equal or larger than the source one." Considering I have nearly 1.5TB of used space, I don't have a storage device of that size.

More than that, what am I supposed to do afterward? You never told me whether I'm able to simply reformat the same HDD and use it again or if I need to get a new one.

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Clonezilla instructions are all over the web.
Mar 24, 2014 11:48AM PDT

I don't tell folk what to do. Folk need to choose the backup and restore they are comfortable with. My point is that with free backup software that's not the problem. And if you have 1.5TB of stuff at risk, that is your choice what to do about that. I only can offer ideas and share what I used.
Bob

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What??
Mar 24, 2014 12:00PM PDT
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Any diagnostic can kill a drive.
Mar 24, 2014 12:08PM PDT

How is it not helping when we are trying to avoid total loss? It's not a matter of if a drive will fail but when. This one failed the tests and now it appears you want folk to tell you it's OK.

That won't be me.
Bob

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No
Mar 24, 2014 12:25PM PDT

That's not what I said at all. I merely want to know if it's possible for me to backup onto an external HD and then restore onto the same HDD. Is the fault with the HDD itself or is it with Windows? The fact is I'm trying to hold out on this for a bit longer, which will likely the beginning of April.

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Maybe. Sorry
Mar 24, 2014 12:27PM PDT

But as this drive failed a test, it's possible that a restore may fail. The drive is now suspect. No one can predict the results of backup and restore given the failure. It may be OK and I've taken such backups before, updated the drive firmware and restored better than half the time.

The basic problems do seem to be dogging you. Hope you can safeguard what you can't lose soon.
Bob

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you obviously
Mar 24, 2014 11:48AM PDT
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Yes
Mar 24, 2014 11:56AM PDT

I have one. The problem is it's not going to be big enough to transfer an image of my HDD. Unless the image that Clonezilla makes is a compressed size?

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What Clonezilla does
Mar 24, 2014 12:00PM PDT

Is on the web somewhere. It does map out unused sectors so a 2TB drive backs up to less than a 2TB folder. However if you clone, then it must be 2.0 or larger.

Sounds like the all eggs in one basket problem.
Bob

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My backup program compresses to about 2/3 size
Mar 24, 2014 12:11PM PDT

I've never used Clonezilla, but the Easeus Todo Backup Free I use will compress out about 1/3 of the original size using "normal" compression. If this were my computer, I'd never have a computer without backup. My advice is to RUN and get a 2 TB hard drive and do a full system backup as soon as you possibly can. Otherwise I fear you'll be in for a very painful experience in the very near future. Sad

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no one
Mar 24, 2014 12:31PM PDT

likes to bite the bullet but unless your willing to get another HDD just for a full image backup this thread is a moot point.

I have three computers and have an external HDD with a full image for each stored in a safe place , I also have another external for each connected and backing up every couple of hours.
Does it cost ?? Damn Right it does. But it costs more when you lose important data and have to re do all of the work (if possible) or lose it completely and can't replace it.

Your choice. No whining allowed...

Digger

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Answer
Another angle. But first you backup!
Mar 24, 2014 11:55AM PDT

While it's interesting to read drive firmware might be available for this drive (read http://community.wd.com/t5/Desktop-Mobile-Drives/WD1002FAEX-00Z3A0-Firmware-05-01D05-No-Cache/td-p/64640 and ask WD!) it's possible this drive has newer firmware. I rarely update this but if a drive exhibits failures I duplicate the drive for safety then update the firmware and the restore from backup.

In your case you don't seem ready for all this work so this post is just to fill in something we didn't cover.
Bob

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Answer
Shouldn't be losing files
Mar 28, 2014 3:18PM PDT

Your computer should -not- be losing files.

I use Active SMART to monitor my hard drives. It'll tell you if a drive is going bad.

If you are losing files, get a new HD. A good one that has a 5 year warranty.

Did you check for viruses?

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Can be losing files.
Mar 29, 2014 3:12AM PDT

If the drive fails tests, only your newer computer owners will think it shouldn't lose files.

The drive isn't in good shape. Why would you trust it?
Bob

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Answer
Some good advice here...
Mar 28, 2014 7:50PM PDT

...so much so, I almost hesitate to add to it. The common thread is BACKUP. You can choose to do this or not, just ask yourself what your data is worth to you? You've backed up your critical data, you say, great, I hope you made multiple copies. The stuff you haven't backed up, you say is software and such that you can rebuild, though in your own words, you say that is a pain. How much of a pain?

As Bob has pointed out, image copy backups and restores are comparatively quick, I'd guess half an hour or so for terabyte and a half, unlike file copies, which can take several hours for the same data. The downside to an image copy is that you generally can't restore individual files. Your choice.

A 2 TB desktop external HDD (3.5", self powered, the USB powered "portable" ones are significantly more) is $99 Australian here, so less USD. That looks to me to be cheap to protect all my data and software and avoid the pain of a manual rebuild but your mileage may vary.

Now about your system disk. I think the temperature is a red herring. Hard disks fail, fact of life. How soon? Depends on too many factors to make a reasonable guess but a rough guide is to check the manufacturer's warranty but then I have a couple of disks (not in critical use!) that won't see their 20th birthday again!

Sometimes (relatively rarely) they will go "poof" and that is the end of them and you are very glad you have a couple of up to date backups! But more often, they send early warnings such as you are getting now. You can ignore them and wait for the "poof" if you choose or you can do, as you have done, and investigate the issues with as many tools as you can find. Your manufacturer's tool is flagging a fail, that says the fault is real and you continue to use the disk at your own risk. The manufacturer's don't flag these errors for fun, they mean it.

There are circumstances when you might choose to go on using the disk and rely on your backups, or you may take the hint and replace the disk. Again entirely your own choice.

Could you wipe the disk, low level format it and try a restore on to it? Yes but there is no guarantee that this will work - it might. But remember it was the manufacturer who flagged the fail; suppose you follow this route and the disk apparently comes up clean? That intermittent fault is still there, waiting to pop up again when you exercise the issue that encountered it in the first place. Next time, it may not be a few ad hoc files that you don't really care about, it may be the key to all your valuable data. Worth the risk for a hundred bucks? Your choice entirely, mine would be to heed the warning and replace.

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Answer
HDD Maybe Failing Thoughts
Mar 29, 2014 2:12PM PDT

Twenty two degrees C is equivalent to 71.6 degrees Fahrenheit and one would have to question by any imagination that would cause any operational problem with a PC. Most electrical equipment have two spec ranges: a storage ,and operational and as you would surmise the storage is much winder ( ie IBM 60=>. 90 F on and 50=. 110 F off) The FLA area is notorious for lightening and rain and I would recommend any one in that region use a UPS and anti static mat to protect their PC investment. IC damage can occur from ESD at about 10 pico joules 10XE(-9)( a watt is 1 joule per second) and the simple power strip most users use provide a very low level of protection.
From a PC stand point the 2 least reliable items are the power supply and hard drive. From my personal view point any second or third party program or App used to check performance I treat with skepticism because most I do not think have the technical depth nor regression test disciple for those types of products. Using the designer and builder's (WD) test will probably be based on what they use to deliver their hardware and based on their years of experience would be my first choice.
There are 2 basic issue in replacing a hard drive; Data recovery and loading the Apps and operating system. With the very large drives one should have a relative small partition for the OS( Or I use 120GB SSD drive C for mine) and then use the large drive for data and Apps. I have personally used ACRONIS True Image ($) in the past with very good success and once the image was installed booting and using was just like the " old" drive.
It is not clear from your post if the chkdsk has the /f switch set which will have it attempt to correct disk errors. There are other artifacts which can cause errors , ESD as noted above, power supply problem ( noise ) or how one shuts it down. Just switching off is not a good approach since the flying heads can crash into the disk vs park at a planned location like windows when you shut down using it.
You do not have a hard failure and if it was my decision I would run the WD test periodically and look for trends of increasing errors. That has to be tempered by disk age, how often you power cycle ( once per day is generally recommended but do not let run over night vs fire hazard concern), audible noise increases from etc.
You should back up your data and if it does fail the only loss will be the relative short time to install, format the present OS ( You have the install disk I hope?). Except you of course will not have all the updates which will be additional effort This link http://www.techsupport alert .com ref " Never Re-install Windows Again" you may find use full
good Luck