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General discussion

HD Performance & 'Free' HD Gigs

Oct 10, 2006 11:50AM PDT

Hello - I've got an Ibook G3 [and hoping it lasts forever it's so good], with 800mhz, 640ram, 30gig hd, 22.78 free, and Firefox 2.0 as the browser. Thinking that saving HD space for better performance has perhaps lead me into being more careful than warranted. Whenever I download Itunes albums, or other items, I then copy them to cd, deleting the file, trying to keep as many 'free' gigs available for good performance. Now I've been reading that perhaps even 5 'free' gigs is sufficient! Wondering how these figures are decided, and whether simply opinion has factored in here. Currently, even on a dialup connection, it runs relatively 'blazing'...I'd hate to change that. Any thoughts? Thanks much, Eric

Discussion is locked

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free gigabytes are good, but
Oct 10, 2006 1:46PM PDT

this is not a Macintosh specific item. When the operating system (Windows or MacOSX) uses RAM, it is typically a combination of actual electronic RAM and available hard drive space (also known as "virtual memory"). In the MacOSX environment, you can see this use of real vs virtual memory in the "Activity Monitor" application that is loaded onto your machine by default when you do a system install or when it comes from the factory.

An easy "rule" to remember is to have a minimum of 10%-15% of your hard drive as "Available". This means this is the LOWEST amount of hard drive space you should have. More is DEFINITELY better. Never, ever run out of hard drive space that is on the same disk as your System.

In you particular case, the best thing you could do is to increase the amount of real, electronic, RAM. When virtual memory is used (remember, that is on the hard drive), things are a bit slower than when real electronic memory is used. There is a lot of work/time using the hard drive for RAM. If you have more electronic RAM, then less virtual memory is needed...

Once can NEVER have enough electronic RAM or hard drive space. More of both is always better. But you are doing well by keeping yourself so disciplined as to keep hard drive space available.

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and another thing...
Oct 10, 2006 1:48PM PDT

Your dial-up modem "response time" has little to do with your RAM...

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Thought so...
Oct 10, 2006 2:16PM PDT

Thanks for these well developed responses! I'd increase the ram count immediately on this Ibook, but I've been told that at my current 640 I'm 'maxed out'. Do you have different information on this? Thanks again.

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RAM
Oct 10, 2006 9:46PM PDT

You were told correctly.
The max RAM for this machine is 640MB.

On the bright side, you do have a Firewire port which you can use to attach and external Firewire HD with a capacity that will make your internal HD look small.
You could then have an iTunes library without worrying about clutter and move some of your stuff to the external to free up even more space on the internal.

Just a thought

P

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sorry about the RAM miss.
Oct 10, 2006 11:09PM PDT

That is good that you kow your machine - and with mrmacfixit's back-up - you've maxed your RAM. His suggestion on an external drive is a good one - not only for your iTunes collection (then you don't have to be constantly doing the disc swap dance), but also for use as a backup of any documents you may have on your laptop. Applications can be re-installed. Documents can be a challenge to re-create from scratch.

Since laptops are portable by nature, their hard drives (and other pieces) get a bit more "exposed to the elements". Presuming you don't travel with your external drive, that means you would have a storage facility that is different from the drive in the machine... and the chances of the drive in the machine AND the external drive failing at the same time are pretty slim.

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Gonna happen...
Oct 10, 2006 11:37PM PDT

Thanks boya84 & mrmac - An external HD is clearly the best of both worlds and the most reasonable solution. Have dithered over the checking/deciding stage and probably should just click on Ebay & go for it. Thanks again - Eric

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External Drive
Oct 11, 2006 10:50AM PDT

Check out Macsales.com for an external Firewire case.

You can then put any IDE drive you happen to find into it. It is usually cheaper to go this route as places like BestBuy, Circuit CIty, CompUSA often has low prices on high GB IDE drives.

P

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I like the aluminum
Oct 11, 2006 11:16AM PDT

SIIG case I got at Frys.com (formerly outpost.com) for $100. It was on the high side because it has connections for FireWire 400, FireWire 800 and USB2. A Maxtor 250 gig SATA drive is another $100. Search that site using "hard drive enclosure". I got my college-bound son a Metal Gear case (FireWire 400 + USB2) for $60 and a 250 gig drive to back-up his laptop docs, and it has a cool blue neon light that flashes when the drive is working.

I like the metal cases because they are a big heat sink to help keep the actual drive cool without a fan (less noise).

Funny thing: at Fry's.com, searching "hard drive enclosure" gets a few hits (including the MetalBox cases), but no SIIG case. But the SIIG case can be found by searching "SIIG" and getting to the LAST entry...

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Getting closer...
Oct 11, 2006 2:13PM PDT

Thanks guys - Yes, a 'builder' would suit current economics opposed to buying straight off the shelf. So; specs on the box/ide drive would include firewire, supposedly usb not neccessary; 'metal' as boya84 suggested sounds good - any other cautionary hints? Thanks again - Eric

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Specs MUST include Firewire
Oct 11, 2006 9:44PM PDT

Your machine only has USB 1.0 and the transfer speed of USB 1.0 is abysmal. Really abysmal!

P

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can HD Performance on my windows xp 2000???
Oct 13, 2006 6:54AM PDT

emachines T3092/ windows xp 2000. I hope it would work on my PC.. Also my printer, fax and copy,it's a Lexmark All in One Series 2000, series is x2250. Also, I want to upgrade it and be ready for the new 2007 capablity. I am thee only user, so is farely new. It's been with me since the april to now october of this years. THANK YOU SO MUCH. Your Web is awsome for poeple like me. I'm like a first grader.

Again THANK YOU,
MARI

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so... If what you are asking is,
Oct 13, 2006 9:26AM PDT

"Will available hard drive (HD) space on your eMachines computer running Windows XP help your computer's performance?", then the answer is, "Yes."

Windows uses "page swap" virtual memory on the hard drive with the system that booted the computer.

Computers running Windows operating system also have the added baggage of needing to periodically defragment and optimize the hard drive to get the system files in one place, get all the non-system files together and get the free space to be one big chunk of available space.

As stated in an earlier post, get as much RAM as you can afford (and that the machine can handle) - and lots of large hard drives for your files (and to run back-ups). Don't ever let a hard drive get more than about 85%-90% full - you should ALWAYS have about 10%-15% of available hard drive space. These suggestions apply to any personal computing system - no matter which operating system they are running.

If you "need to be ready for the new 2007 capability" I suggest you hang around the Windows forums here at CNET - the Macintosh forums won't help your eMachines Windows XP computing environment very much.

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Wrong
Oct 14, 2006 2:31AM PDT

Windows operating systems need to periodically defragment and optimize the hard drive as much as MacOS systems do: neither of them stop working if you don't do it but both run faster if you do.

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Uh... try again...
Oct 14, 2006 2:53AM PDT
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25668

As well, there are a few utilities that will do the job - even though you don't need it. MacOS9 needed periodic defrag/optimization, but not Mac OSX.

On the other hand, Microsoft Windows INCLUDES a defrag/optimization utility as part of the system installation... because it is needed.

And I NEVER said the systems would ever "stop working". What I said was MacOSX doesn't need to defrag/optimize but Windows does...

And you are correct, a Windows machine will generally run faster after periodic defrag/optimization is run... mostly because the free space is made contiguous so the page swap files (virtual memory) are all in the the same area instead of spread out across the various empty sectors throughout the hard drive...
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Read an authorized book
Oct 14, 2006 5:50AM PDT

1. On Windows the builtin defragmenter doe not defragment the page file, it and the MFT can not be defragmented without a Boot-Time defragmenter, because they are locked while the system is running. The information is available on Microsoft's webs site and I believe the Systeminternals we site.
2. Mac OS versions 10 and above are UNIX based. All versions of UNIX I am familuar with uses a fixed, but changeable amount of swap space, and not take over all available disk space. This information is in several BSD and System V books. 3. The recommended folding ration for most computers is no more than 3. 4. On a 32 bit processor, which the G3 has I am not sure that is is possible to address virtual space (RAM + Swap) above GBytes.

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I never said the Windows
Oct 14, 2006 8:08AM PDT

built-in defragmenter defragged the page swap files - what I said is the defragger would get all the contiguous space together... so the page swap files could all be in one spot instead of all over the drive. But the fact is, Windows OSs require periodic, manually executed, deframentation to perform optimally... and that was the point of the discussion.

Regarding the Mac OSX use of swap space: I never said the OS would "take over all available disk space"... I merely indicated that available hard drive space is a requirement - when one drops below a certain level of available hard drive space on the boot drive, the end user can experience problems. Hence, the "easy" rule of thumb is to NEVER get below 10%-15% of available hard drive space... in MacOSX or Windows whatever...

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Disk space, the final frontier
Oct 14, 2006 1:27PM PDT

Swap space is not free space. Assume you have a Mac or a PC with a 100 Gbyte disk, with fifteen percent free (15 Gbytes). The computer runs with no problems. The disk dies (RIP 100 Gbyte drive). It is replace the disk with a 200 Gbytes disk. Do I need to keep 30 Gbytes free to run optimally, where 15 Gbytes was satisfactorily before?

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For the average user who does not
Oct 14, 2006 1:58PM PDT

pay attention to the minute details like you and I do, yes, keep 10%-15% available. It is an easy guideline to follow and not get caught up in the minutiae of computing... just as most users don't care about speeds and feeds - they just want useful response time and throughput. Just as most users could never tell the difference between .mov and .avi formats - they just want to see video. And just as most users don't care to know what the various buss speeds are within the computing architecture - thery just want it too work.

Yes, you are correct. Is that what you want to read? Cool. There it is. But *most users* don't want to keep track of the little BS that gets some people all worked up. And this "guideline" response with an easy method for *most users*.

I never said Page Swap is free space. I said the page swap files use available space and things speed up when that page swap space is continguous rather than being spread all over the hard drive. The discussion was on contiguous space and why Windows needs to be defragged and optimized. It's people like you who try to make the computing experience a big mystery so you can show how much more you know than *most people*. Computers need to be EASY to use and run and maintain. That's where the improved productivity comes in. For the *most people* who are not computer hobbyists or degreed computer science folks or tech-support folks, personal computers just need to run. And easy to follow guidelines are much more useful and productive than esoteric discussions of what can happen at the sector level of a drive during a page swap routine or what the differences are between a 7200 RPM drive with a 16 meg cache vs a 10,000 rpm drive with an 8 meg cache and why that matters...

Personally, I will always keep at least 10%-15% available hard drive space on my drives - internal and external... I've successfully run a pretty good sized IT shop in the corporate world. If you don't like my suggestion, don't follow it. If you want to run with less free space on your hard drives, knock yourself out. I am glad you are smarter than me.