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Has anyone realized copper is going away?

by Coryphaeus / July 8, 2007 1:54 AM PDT

The Telecommunications Act of 1989 (or so) stated that the major phone companies had to share their copper facilities with anyone. That's why MSN, Earthlink, and all other ISPs offer dial up and DSL over AT&T and Verizon cable facilities. They lease the copper at a reduced rate mandated by the FCC, and charge you for the service. Really. How do you think these ISPs offer you service? Did you see them place that copper to your house? Who did you think it belonged to?

Enter fiber.

Fiber is exempt from that act and the phone companies do not have to share. And you can bet they won't. When the entire network is fiber, and this will happen in short order. Guess who will not be offering dial up and DSL. All ISPs who offer service on copper will have nothing to carry it. And the cost involved with laying fiber from an office to a residence will be prohibitive.

You all might consider what you're going to do in the not too distant future. Copper is going away. Fiber is all that will be available. Not counting some of the small mom and pop phone companies scattered around.

Naturally, this does not involve wireless or cable internet. The airwaves are open to anyone. But get ready folks, it'll be a different ball game. And fiber is the big hitter.

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The sky is falling.
by Kiddpeat / July 8, 2007 3:31 AM PDT

Again.

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Good one, but I prefer
by drpruner / July 8, 2007 1:03 PM PDT
In reply to: The sky is falling.

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!

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Copper is back.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / July 8, 2007 3:34 AM PDT
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Sorry, but...
by James Denison / July 8, 2007 3:42 AM PDT
In reply to: Copper is back.

...that setup scares the heck outa me. Hey, do you know if the phone modems in computers now will work with phones connected to FiOS systems, or not? Along with losing the cheap phone service from POTS, will cheap internet access be lost due to phone modems no longer working over FiOS? Or will there be a convertor on the street or mounted to house that lets all be wire inside still and adequately allow passage of current phone modems?

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(NT) It scared the heck out of telcos.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / July 8, 2007 5:25 AM PDT
In reply to: Sorry, but...
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Hi Wayne,
by Mac McMullen / July 8, 2007 4:19 AM PDT

My town went total fibre trunk lines several years ago. House to trunk line is yet copper. DSL and phones operate without criticism, IMO.

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Yep, the adapters already exist.
by drpruner / July 8, 2007 1:10 PM PDT
In reply to: Hi Wayne,

And no more Phelps Dodge in NM, BTW.

The Zuni Pueblo installed a pueblo-wide broadband system a few years ago. Difficult because of many buildings isolated from one another. The solution is a combination of fiber, copper, and wireless with lots of repeaters. They already had many Gates education computers in place and a good network in the government areas. Very professional folks; I got to work with them networking their copiers. My favorite pueblo, FWIW.

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Ummmmmm No.
by C1ay / July 8, 2007 5:14 AM PDT

The applicable legislation is the Telecommunications Act of 1996, Senate Bill S652 of the 104th Congress, which became Public Law 104-104, 110 Stat. 56. This is now codified in 47 USC. The applicable section is 47 USC

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Let me clarify. . .
by Coryphaeus / July 8, 2007 5:46 AM PDT

I was in the business for almost 40 uears, and wife is a manager of three AT&T central offices.

Fiber is replacing copper. Think FIOS with Verizon and U-Verse with AT&T. Fiber trunking is replacing copper T-1 - T-3. Verizon is investing 23 billion dollars to convert residential to fiber and AT&T is spending a like amount. When fiber has replaced copper to the home (FIOS and U-Verse), and residential distribution, copper will be pulled. Physically pulled as in removed, pulled off of the pole, and pulled from the ground. Do you honestly think they will just let billions of dollars in copper stay in the field and turn green?

Mark my words folks, I and the wife have been in this business too long. Watch the skys and be afraid. They will make it attractive enough to pull customers away from copper.

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PC World write about it.
by Angeline Booher / July 8, 2007 6:40 AM PDT
In reply to: Let me clarify. . .
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,117684-page,1/article.html

My cable company replaced the service line from the street to my house last year. Seems like they are doing it on an as needed basis as folks ad more TVs, computers. Though we've had digital service for quite a few years, I honestly don't know if the inside of the new cable is copper or fiber. Of course they (meaning us) rent the utility poles.

Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator
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Folks, that's not an (NT). Thanks, Angeline. Note
by drpruner / July 8, 2007 1:17 PM PDT

that the article is three years old. I probably read it but forgot it.

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Keep a watch for the black helicopters as well.
by Kiddpeat / July 8, 2007 4:16 PM PDT
In reply to: Let me clarify. . .

You KNOW what they are.

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I've seen them
by Dragon / July 9, 2007 12:07 AM PDT

Helicopters that are black, that is.

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Are you sure? Not Army Ranger Blackhawks, but
by drpruner / July 9, 2007 7:11 AM PDT
In reply to: I've seen them
The Unknown, Probably One-World Government helicopters.
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They could've been aliens
by Dragon / July 9, 2007 8:00 AM PDT

who were disguising their space ships. You know how sneaky they can be.

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Yes.
by drpruner / July 9, 2007 12:32 PM PDT

We know.

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Browser going coo-coo again, and
by drpruner / July 8, 2007 1:30 PM PDT

there's a thunderstorm coming, so I'll make this brief.
On Ask.com I searched verizon+fiber+copper and got several first-page hits on forums discussing Verizon's high-handed manner of putting fiber into homes. Much food for thought; thanks for the thread, coryphaeus.

Now, let's see if I can power down befo

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Bits and pieces
by James Denison / July 8, 2007 10:53 PM PDT

Not quite as easy as popping in an AOL CD and be up and running.
=======================

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS
Pictures!

"I came to learn that Verizon was capable of offering fiber service at our location. Officially, they only claim to support those using Microsoft Windows and Mac OS/X with their service. In fact, with a little foreknowledge, you can have installed, activated, and use your FiOS service with an entirely free operating system such as GNU/Linux.

Verizon will run a fiber cable to your home or business, and have it terminate not on a D-mark, but rather on a special optical termination box. This box has both PSTN jacks and an ethernet jack. The ethernet jack they will normally run to a wireless/wired router that they also provide. The router they give you is generally preconfigured as a NAT, and as 192.168.1.x network.

First, of course, you can go in and explore your router. It has....." (see article)http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/blogs/liberating_verizon_fios_using_free_operating_systems

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=127999
"Seriously, say goodbye -- because if you ever want to go back to DSL, there's a good chance you can't.

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When Verizon connects the fiber line to your home during a FiOS installation, it is the company's standard practice that the technician cuts the copper connection from the street to your home. This leaves you with only a fiber line running into your house. Verizon says that customers prefer this over having a logjam of wires running through their property.

But what about those rare cases where someone only wants a cut-rate DSL connection and VOIP service. What happens when a formerly FiOS homeowner no longer wants to be a Verizon customer?

Though such a switch would probably be rare, there's a chance the copper line is gone for good....AceDSL says there have been instances where Verizon has reconnected a copper line so that AceDSL could reach a former FiOS customer. The company says about 25 percent of all FiOS installations it sees still have copper going to the home, even though Verizon's usual procedure is to disconnect it....(see article)"


Even if you have copper to the house you could still lose phone service in short order after a power outage in your area. Here's one town that is discussing that problem. Also note that communities are mostly helpless in what comes to their area since the regulation is on a federal and state level. It would be nice if the communities could force diesel UPS backup system on Verizon and maybe they can.

" Verizon currently delivers POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) primarily by copper pair. However, those copper pairs do not necessarily go back to the central office. In some parts of Town, for example in East Acton, there is a large box at the corner of Pope Road and Great Road, where fiber from the central office is converted to copper for the "last mile" serving many of the homes in the area. Power is applied to the copper pairs at the box which has battery backup, but no diesel UPS as we are accustomed to at the central office. In an extended power failure on Great Road, residents would lose telephone service even if the C.O. and their house still had power.

When Verizon brings you a fiber drop, either to provide FiOS cable TV service or to provide FiOS internet service, they will generally remove the copper drop unless it is also carrying some other service which currently is only provided by copper, such as ISDN, a burglar alarm, any business service, or DSL from a non-Verizon provider. However, they will still move your residential POTS service over to the FiOS terminal. From then on, even if you stop purchasing other FiOS services from Verizon, your residential POTS service will continue to be provided by fiber through the FiOS terminal. (see article)"
https://www.acton-ma.gov/boards/Cable_Advisory_Committee/verizonfios.asp




https://www.acton-ma.gov/boards/Cable_Advisory_Committee/verizonfios.asp
" Verizon currently delivers POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) primarily by copper pair. However, those copper pairs do not necessarily go back to the central office. In some parts of Town, for example in East Acton, there is a large box at the corner of Pope Road and Great Road, where fiber from the central office is converted to copper for the "last mile" serving many of the homes in the area. Power is applied to the copper pairs at the box which has battery backup, but no diesel UPS as we are accustomed to at the central office. In an extended power failure on Great Road, residents would lose telephone service even if the C.O. and their house still had power.

When Verizon brings you a fiber drop, either to provide FiOS cable TV service or to provide FiOS internet service, they will generally remove the copper drop unless it is also carrying some other service which currently is only provided by copper, such as ISDN, a burglar alarm, any business service, or DSL from a non-Verizon provider. However, they will still move your residential POTS service over to the FiOS terminal. From then on, even if you stop purchasing other FiOS services from Verizon, your residential POTS service will continue to be provided by fiber through the FiOS terminal. "

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(NT) Life is too complicated. I'm going back to bed.
by drpruner / July 9, 2007 7:09 AM PDT
In reply to: Bits and pieces
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