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General discussion

Hard-Drive Player Questions

Jul 27, 2005 2:07AM PDT

I have been reading about some of the hard-drive players and so far all of them use a rechargeable battery pack. How long does it take to recharge them? And how long do they usaully last? I am looking at the creative zen micro. I really despise having to buy another battery pack just to listen to the thing for a long time. How easily do hard-drive players skip? I would be using it to mow with, is there some sort of case that I could use?

Discussion is locked

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This is the subject line.
Jul 27, 2005 12:18PM PDT

I never know what to put in for the subject.

Hard drive players don't skip easily at all. You'd have to be in an earthquake for 20 minutes to get it to skip. The nature of compressed audio files like MP3s is that since theyr'e compressed and "encoded", they have to be "decoded" in order to be played. Unlike a CD player, which reads raw data from a comapct disc and outputs it straight to your headphones, compressed audio, once it's read from the hard drive, needs to be digitally processed first by a computer. Memory is required for this, in the form of memory "chips" like RAM, independant of the hard drive. This memory also buffers the audio that has already been decoded, so what you hear from your headphones is actually coming from the memory and not the hard drive. Most hard drive players are built with enough memory that they can decode and store the entire music file in memory, and since this memory has no moving parts, it can not skip. Therefore, barring a faulty product, you should never hear any skips in any song. Lawnmowing shouldn't harm your listening experience, unless you accidentally get your player or your hand caught in the blade. That would suck.

As for battery life, check the cNet reviews for actual battery life of the players you're looking at. You can also check the company sites, but their claims are seldom accurate. I don't see why you'd ever need to buy extra batteries, because even the lowest battery life is something like 6 hours. So unless you're flying non-stop to the middle-east on a regular basis, which I don't know why you'd be doing since they have all the terorism and stuff, you should be fine with the included battery. If you need exteded life just look at some other players. I have a Sony HD5, 40 hours claimed life and 24 hours tested by cNet. I recently took it on my drive from long island, new york, to southern Maryland, a 5-6 hour trip, had the player going the enire time, and the battery guage didn't even make it to the halfway mark. I think cNet said that the Zen had a pretty insane battery life as well, something like 25 hours, not sure though.

Charging times are generally around 2 to 3 hours for a completely full charge, but an 80% charge, which is usually considered full since that final 20% takes like double the time to trickle in, takes something like an hour to an hour and a half.

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hard drive
Jul 27, 2005 2:52PM PDT

I have the Zen Touch from Creative Media. You can't replace the battery. Charging it is pretty easy; you can use the supplied a/c adapter or the supplied usb cable and hook it up to your computer. They say it takes four hours the first time you charge it up, less time after that. Battery lasts for 24 hrs. Don't worry about skipping, it ain't gonna happen unless the original skipped and the the skip made it into the file.

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I think you can change the battery....
Jul 28, 2005 1:42AM PDT

I am looking at the 5 gig, on creative's website you get a free battery with your order of it. 24 hours?!?!? That is insane, that will be no problem then. So do you get the ac adapter with it? I thought you maybe had to buy it seperate. 2 hours of charging isn't bad if it lasts 24 hours.

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Forgot To Mention
Jul 28, 2005 2:06AM PDT

I will be using this with my bookshelf system. I just read a review saying that the IPOD is better for this. This is mainly how I will be using it... How big of a difference is there?

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Nope, stick with the Creative
Jul 28, 2005 3:37AM PDT

If you're going to use it with your shelf system. Even though Creative players have problems (especially with the headphone jack) most people will tell you that the sound quality it provides is superior to that of the ipod. Creative does make sound cards, so it would seem natural that they would input good sound into their players.

If you're going to use it for your bookshelf system only, why not get the Creative Zen xtra? Sure, it's sorta ugly and bulky, but the capacity is great (30, 40, 60 GB variations) and comes with an already low price ($180 for the 30 gb version).

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Zen Xtra
Jul 28, 2005 3:46AM PDT

I only have probly 1 gig of music, lol. So I mean 5 gig is more than enough. My Hi-Md player has bad sound quality, I think it is just in general. So I am taking it back today and seeing what best buy is going to do. If I get the 200$ credit I will look at the zen touch micro. I don't know for sure what I am going to do yet, but as far as hard-drive players go the micro looks like the way to go, because all of my music is in wma.

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I Got The Micro
Jul 28, 2005 11:18AM PDT

I went ahead and went with the zen micro. It is awesome so far, I dont like that the ac adapter didnt come with it though...

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Watch yourself, buddy.....
Jul 29, 2005 11:24AM PDT

Zen Micro players are known to have the headphone jack fail almost right after the warranty runs out. The one you have has a warranty of 90 days, right? That should say something about what Creative thinks about the reliability of their players. I would suggest that you go with an extended warranty with a third party company like Mack or something. Good Luck.

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(confused)
Jul 29, 2005 3:31PM PDT

Which Zen Micro did you get? It didn't come with a power adapter???

I've been looking all over the place for info on this and I must admit I'm completely lost. Here's what cNet said in their review of the Zen Micro 5GB (http://espn.com.com/Creative_Zen_Micro__5GB__black_/4514-6490_7-31151919.html):

"In addition to the Micro itself, your package will include some nice earbuds, a polished, white wall-wart power adapter..."

Buy.com does not list the power adapter as being included with the Zen Micro 5GB though. And on the Creative site, it says the following (http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=10795&nav=4):

"Limited edition Zen Micro 5GB comes bundled with these additional accessories*:

Power Adaptor
Belt Clip & Stand
Pouch
*While Stocks Last"

(Limited Edition, by the way, here does not mean I'm looking at some special version the Zen. It's just the standard 5GB model, which I will risk to conjecture that they are discontinuing, in favor of 4- and 6- GB models to better compete with iPod Mini models)

They list the power adapter as an additional accessory? As if by providing one they're going the extra mile?? And the upcoming 4 and 6 GB models are not listed as including these "extra accessories". What kind of BS is that? I've never heard of a rechargable device not coming with the equipment that's required to recharge it from a wall outlet. It can probably be recharged via a powered USB port, but that takes longer, and what are you supposed to do if you're on the road? What if your roadside motel or your mother-in-law's house are not exactly equipped with a computer with a powered USB port that you can use for 2 hours??

This is all beside the fact that I can't figure out what the deal is with this thing being listed in some places as including the adapter and some as not including it. I wonder if cNet is aware that although the Zen Micro that was sent to them for review did include the adapter, some people might be ordering Zen Micros and getting surprised upon their arrival. I also don't understand why this doesn't seem to be bothering anyone but me... I only did a quick check around but so far I haven't found anyone asking what the deal is with this... I would think people would be a bit more pissed off about it. Heck I didn't even order one and I'm pissed about it! What chutzpuh!

Shame on you, Creative...

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Ah
Jul 29, 2005 3:56PM PDT

iPod Mini's don't come with power adapters either, it seems. So I guess Creative just didn't get creative enough in their competition strategy, and decided not to go "above and beyond" by including a power adapter, which would have actually looked really good for them. People hate Apple because they give off an image of being stingy and money-hungry, and not including this until-now standard accessory only reinforces that visual for me. Creative could have really cashed in on this by making themselves seem like the good guys in the battle and including a friggin' A/C adapter. It really pisses me off that corporate greed has come this far, that our mass-consumerism has provided for a society where a company can so easily pull the wool over their customers' eyes by saying "Hey look at us, we made it better and bigger but we're charging LESS for it! How great are we?" And no one notices that, sure, it's less money, but they're only making it cheaper by quietly skimping in other areas that no one thinks about, like A FREAKIN' WAY TO PLUG THE THING IN!

Maybe I'm just getting old, and I'm just like every old person, who's used to the "good old days" when stuff was made better, which somehow every generation seems to say no matter how much they made fun of the previous generation for saying it... but I'm only 24, so that's probably not the case.

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No way to edit posts so gotta make another one
Jul 29, 2005 5:28PM PDT

And another thing. Average consumers falling for this crap is one thing, but it pisses me off more that the reviewers aren't catching any of this. What happened to keeping the corporations in check? What happened to the watchdogs? Where's the foot in the ***? When did the reviewers' rules change, from products-are always-bad-until-proven-good to wow-this-thing-is-so-pretty-I-can't-even-think-about-anything-else? What happened to the critics' eye? Are movies the only things that their reviewers still criticize?

That's what the media is there for, and they are really blowing it lately. PC Magazine has nothing but glowing things to say about the iPod Mini 2nd generation, and doesn't even mention the conspicuous lack of accessories that were included with the 1st generation Mini, like an AC adapter and a Firewire cable.

I don't want to make any blatant assumption-accusations, but perhaps the reviewers and the reviewees are just a little too close nowadays... the websites and magazines that review products are the same magazines and websites that are paid to advertise those same products... and despite what I'm sure is an outward stated policy of truth, honesty, and unbiased reviewing, I would not be afraid to bet my reproductive potency that these conflicts of interest play a major roll in these little "oversights" in product reviews.

What's really a shame is that this wouldn't bother me at all if Apple just came and said, "We decided to forgo some of the usual creature comforts, like an AC adapter and FireWire cable, in favor of an improved main device and reduced price. Although some customers will require the AC adapter and need to purchase it separately, it is our hope that, overall, the customer will appreciate having a higher-quality, lower-priced product, even if it means giving up some free optional accessories."

Or something like that.

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ANOTHER LIBERAL POST!
Jul 30, 2005 1:57AM PDT

Why must thou hate upon supreme corporate primacy? Might thou prefer to return to the socialist days of the Great Depression? Are thee not grateful to our Divine Leader GW B for superseding corporate interests above everything else? If it were not for Glorious Leader's pioneering advances in corporate subservience, Americans might have no jobs left upon its fair soil at all...

*********************************************************
Whoops, thought I was on a Yahoo message board. Just kidding. Yeah, dude, Cnet and most electronics publications are more likely to be in bed with majot electronics manufacturers, than not. Who do you think puts up those valuable advertising dollars? It might go some way to explaining Cnet's MASSIVE bias regarding ANYTHING made by apple.

my advice? try visiting alternative, customer-oriented websites like www.dapreview.net. At least they're still looking out for the average guy who's just looking for a good product at reasonable price.

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Creative Micro
Jul 30, 2005 5:59AM PDT

Yea it is pretty sorry of creative to make you purchase it seperate I am going to call them and see if I can order it monday. I didn't see it on there website. I cant stand the 2 hour charge. I will buy another battery, if it comes down to it.

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Bla
Jul 29, 2005 2:41PM PDT

I know it's too late but just for the sake of information, good sound quality through headphones doesn't necessarily mean the same for quality through an external powered speaker system. While it is easier on a player in terms of power requirements to go through external powered speakers (like a bookshelf system, as opposed to headphones which contribute no power of their own), which audio geeks know as line-out or "zero-load", this doesn't mean the players that are good with the latter will be good at the former. Large speakers need to be fed audio signals differently from tiny headphone drivers, and most players wind up being better at one than at the other. The iPod is, from Bill Machrone's (pc mag) analysis, pretty good at line-out, but I can tell you from owning one that quality through headphones is sub-standard, as people seem to FINALLY be aware of (i've been saying it for a long time and now I feel like the guy in the movie "body snatchers" at the end when people finally believe him about the giant pea pods that take over peoples' bodies).

My Sony HD5 sound quality is near-perfect through headphones, but as a line-out device it is "imperfect". That's not to say it's bad; it is certainly still great, it's just not as perfect as it is through headphones, so I only bring that up to prove my point. Sony thought to include a "line-out mode" in the HD5 which I thought might correct the imperfection, but all it does is make the signal volume really freakin' loud. That is beneficial, and it's good that they thought to have two different modes for these two very different applications (headphones and line-out), but they did not implement this feature as wholeheartedly as they could have. The signal doesn't just need to have its volume pumped up for line-out; other things need to be tweaked, like perhaps toning down the equalizer at the extreme highs and lows. For headphones it's good since most headphones need it, but it seems to overload my ears and sometimes my speakers when using line-out. Also, the player might utilize a slightly different circuit in line-out mode, specifically a lower-quality one to consume less power and take full advantage of the power being fed externally, but even my kickass system at home can't compensate for the quality loss. I could be wrong about this though, and perhaps I'm just noticing an all-around sound quality problem that just isn't apparent through headphones.

I think I started to ramble there for a bit. I'll just add that despite the imperfection I just analyzed for you in more words than were needed, the HD5 is still the best player I can find. And about Creative being good at this cause of their sound card experience, I doubt that's true at all. The Zen sounds good because they didn't mind making it large. Any company knows how to make something with better quality/battery life simply by making it physically bigger - look at the Neuros, it's huge, made by a no-name company, and the sound quality has been called "excellent" by cNet even before cNet started reviewing these devices for sound quality. In fact I would say it's more likely that the Zen would be worse than the other players simply because Creative is not big on portable products. Companies whos' majority experience is in home electronics usually tend to turn out substandard portables, understandably since they don't know what they're doing and just want to break into a market that seems related.

Dammit I rambled again.

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Yeah But Sony Doesn't Accept WMA
Jul 30, 2005 9:30AM PDT

You may be right about the sound quality on the sony but after you load all your music in there atrac3plus format, it isn't worth it. Plus if you record in 192 kbps the music quality is awesome in a bookshelf system. Creative has made pretty good players to my expierence. I had the muvo nx when they first came out and it was awesome. It lasted about a year and half. I went and got a rio after that. The Rio lasted about a year. Then I ended up with the Sony md player it lasted a year. Creatives player has lasted the longest so far. It may be bigger but it is better than some of the other players. The sony may be just as good or better, sony is another good brand, thats what my bookshelf system is and everything else that is a electronic device in my house.

I actually went with the creative not because of the durability but because my choice was between the IPod or the Zen Micro. I mean everyone has a IPod and I dont like being like everyone. I wanted mine to stand out whenever I brought it out of my pocket, and the blue backlight turned on. lol. Overall it is a good player maybe not the best but it is definately pleased me.

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Atrac
Jul 30, 2005 3:01PM PDT

You don't need to convert your songs to Atrac3 on the HD5; It plays MP3's natively.

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Still MP3's Would Be A Pain
Jul 31, 2005 12:01AM PDT

I only have wma. So I would still go with Creative because of the pain of ripping in mp3. Sound quality on the sony cant be much better anyway...