General discussion

Gypsies Still Kidnapping Children

You'd think they'd have figured out taking a child with blonde hair and blue eyes might tip someone off the child was not theirs? They should check the less obvious children's DNA in the camp too, maybe find more kidnapped children. The Roma have a long history of kidnapping.

What's happening in Italy.

The practice of stealing child brides for their sons.

Happening in Ireland.

I remember when living in Greece, those who never locked their doors, did so when the "Tsigani" came to the island and set up camp. The children, maybe not even their own, but maybe their own, were often disfigured, broken arm that healed crooked, and other such to elicit more sympathy while begging. Very insistent little beggars they are too, since they are punished by the older ones if not successful at begging. Some stories I could tell about that time....

You are torn between feeling sorry for the little beggars and despising the older ones who use and abuse them, all while knowing those same children will grow up to be the same.

I do hope they find this child's real family, and hope she is still young enough to recover from what she's endured.

I wonder what DNA testing of all Roma children might reveal?

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another link about the kidnapped girl

And some extra pictures.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2465942/Inside-camp-blonde-girl-abducted-gypsies.html

That house they call "run down" is about the same as the place I lived in for 3 years, although mine was just off the Mediterranean, not up by the hills.

They'd kept her hair dyed to cover up she was blond, but even then the blue eyes would give it away. They need to go through that camp and any child that doesn't have deep brown eyes should be DNA tested for comparison to the "parents". If there's one kidnapped child, there's probably others there.

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Second blonde girl found with Roma in Ireland
If you have a blond child, beware!

There needs to be an international registration of the Roma and their actual children, DNA testing done.
It will protect the innocent, while exposing the kidnappers and child traffickers.

A Liberal News Source about the child in Ireland.

"A blonde girl living with a Roma family in the Republic of Ireland has been put under the care of the country's Health Services Executive, Sky News reports.....The Sunday World newspaper reports the parents of the girl in Ireland said she was born in 2006 in Dublin but were unable to provide papers proving her identity.

According to Metro UK, police have yet to conduct a DNA analysis. No one has been charged in the case"


Back in Greece, "Maria" still has nobody matching her DNA in Interpol's DNA database. This could indicate a greater chance she's possibly an American child.

Is this just another Gypsy lie? President of Gypsies claims the girl was offered for sale to them for about $1,500 equivalent in American dollars. Not easy to tell who and when is lying for these people, lying is a constant part of their lives. Maybe not all, but for many, maybe majority.
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(NT) Or from the former Communist bloc where blondes are common.
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3 more Roma and a baby this time. Greece again.
http://entertainment.verizon.com/news/read/category/Top%20News/article/ap-greek_police_arrest_3_roma_over_abducted-ap

Maybe, finally, they will do something more about all these disappeared children and all the suspicious children with the Roma. When you see 3-4 children all the same age and none are twins, yes, time to ask questions, do DNA if necessary, arrest and prosecute, and most of all ignore the lies on top of lies. Listen, check it out, but don't believe a single thing they tell you until it's been corroborated or proven by other means.
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UPDATE: Maria's parents found?

I'm not sure how definite this is, but if the DNA evidence is actual, and I see no reason to doubt it isn't, it may be that "Maria's" parents have been found, at least her birth mother. If this holds true, it's a relief the girl wasn't kidnapped. I personally support sharing children from one couple to another within a family or ethnic group, but should be made officially known or recorded. I object to laws that won't allow children to be adopted out to relatives or within an ethnic group but only allowed to be placed by the state. If such laws exist in Bulgaria or Greece, then this situation becomes more understandable. The selling of children however is despicable, all should be done for consideration of the child.

I remember "Yaya" (means grandma) who looked after our first born in Crete while we were at work. Niki (greek for victory) also was blonde and blue eyed as a child, looking a lot like "Maria" in reports. Yaya (giagia in greek language) had raised her 3 children, had 2 grandchildren she looked after also at times, and they doted on our first born, called her "fraulitsa" which means "strawberry", due to her rosy cheeks on white skin. For a year since it was born she'd loved the child like it was her own grandchild, and was so sad, crying when we had to return stateside. We brought back "koukla" the doll Yaya made for Niki, to help her remember the Greek grandma who was there for her the first year of her life. We never returned prior to their end of life, but did send pictures over the years to Yaya. That daughter is now 28 years old.

http://news.sky.com/story/1159714/maria-bulgarian-couple-are-roma-girls-parents

DNA tests have confirmed that a Bulgarian couple are the biological parents of a mystery girl found in a Greek Roma camp.

Samples showed that Sasha Ruseva and Atanas Rusev were the biological parents of Maria, the blonde child who made global headlines after being spotted in Athens.

Ms Ruseva has said she gave birth to a baby girl four years ago in Greece while working as an olive picker.
BULGARIA-GREECE-CRIME-CHILDREN-ROMA A picture of two of Maria's siblings in Bulgaria

She said she gave the child away because she was too poor to care for her but insisted she did not get paid.

However, she had reportedly told one of her neighbours that she had sold the child for the equivalent of around £213.

She had recognised Maria, when her discovery made headlines around the world.

According to reports Mrs Ruseva, who is married and lives in the central Bulgarian town of Nikolaevo, has between eight and 10 children.
A poster of Maria is seen in the office of the "Smile of the Child" charity in Athens A hunt was launched for the girl's parents after she was spotted in Greece

Five of those children are blonde, and even closely resemble the girl found in central Greece last week.

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That story makes altogether too much sense. We forget that

much of the world live under far more primitive and unpalatable circumstances than do we in the West. Child selling is common through India and farther East. It is one area in which Muslim cultures are far better in prohibiting that sort of behaviour than are others.

A stronger check on Roma travel, not punitive but firm and equally applied might make a difference, but the odds are it would force the Gypsy presence farther East, into the former Communist areas, rather than eradicating the problem altogether.

Rob

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Some background on the Gypsy problem in Europe
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I would very much like to see the issue of Gypsies

taken much more seriously in Europe, viz. DNA testing, and proper support and followup on the kids removed from Roma environments. The dreadful economic situation in some of the old Soviet bloc contributes to the problem through the sale of children or perhaps the stealing of them.

In the US gypsies do shoddy repairs to driveways and buildings and things like that. In Europe they're so far down the social ladder that they still use begging as a source of income. I'd like to see that eradicated, and the 19th Century, and earlier process of creating crippled children to make them more pitiful and more likely to attract donations though I have no personal knowledge of that. Frankly there should be a Europe wide push to check the welfare of the children of Roma and to track their movements.

There are many groups of Roma who don't do that sort of things. The ones who roam through Western Germany, Holland, Belgium, and France are focussed on playing music, viz. Django Reinhardt, whose hand wasn't damaged by his parents, but was burned in a caravan fire when he was 18. Among the more southerly groups of Roma the musical style changes to Flamenco and to dancing as well as that style of guitar playing.

I know that music was a feature of Roma culture going a long way back, There's even a little bit of it included in the movie Amadeus referring to the 18th Century occurrences, and much Hungarian music was Gypsy influenced

There's an entire violin style called Ziguener, a German word meaning gypsy, which is fairly extinct now. but was still alive in the Gypsy and Jewish styles in Central Europe until Hitler decided to wipe out both Gypsies and Jews.

That's what makes doing anything to improve the lot of gypsy children, and following the "stolen" or sold children who become part of the gypsy group. The sick image of Adolf looming over any programme designed to help and to police/protect the groups and the children.

Rob

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shoddy work, unfinished work
Here in the US it's more the old line "travelers" most are/were Irish I believe who pull the scams. My mother was taken for $500 she could little afford to lose in the 70's.

The scam is they show up and do decent work on one house taking time so others in the neighborhood will notice, then go around trying to drum up more business, take some down payments and then skip town (fly by night organizations). Of course one should ALWAYS obtain and check with official govt channels a reputed home repair license number, but even there they will do an identity theft on one or more and be gone before it's discovered.

There's a whole nest of them which live, or used to live, in Corbin, Kentucky and they were numerous enough to also run the law there, so you will never get one arrested out of there, at least back in the 70's. Much of the family there have the same last name officially (but probably real last names privately) and at that time I checked even the local law had the same last name. They run back home to cash the checks, leaving someone behind sometimes telling the victims they will be right back working, after finishing a home in a different neighborhood, etc. whatever will keep the victim from canceling the check till it's cashed. Sometimes they have an account in a nearby town setup, then transfer the funds back home. That's what was done with my mother's check. When outside law is looking for them there, nobody knows them or where they live, they all cover for each other and often all have same or similar names, officially at least. Imagine an area where everyone is Jones and Smith. I suspect the banks there also cover for them.

It was a sundown town years ago. No Negro quarter allowed there.

The town is very insular, not just about blacks.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7772527

Check out the police message to parents
http://www.corbin-ky.gov/index.php/residents/emergengy-services/corbin-police-dept

Glad to see some are getting what they deserve.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/irish-traveller-to-die-behind-bars-after-one-scam-too-many-26286948.html

http://www.thenewsenterprise.com/content/irish-travelers-set-sights-kentucky
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The scary thing is...

...it makes Hitler's opinion and "solution" more understandable, when while disagreeable. What to do with incorrigible criminals? It's bad when there's such a large representation in any ethnic group which pulls on the others and sets them up for unfair actions and attentions from the state also.

When I was in Greece in the 80's, the Roma who came to the islands actually had few real caravans, but would setup quick frames covered with cardboard which then had tarps or plastic taped or stapled to them. They typically came down from Europe during the winter and the off tourist season in Greece, set up camps near main roads outside of town. One camp I remember was between the old main coastal highway and the newer 4 lane main highway that runs the length of north side Crete. The small village I lived in, the Greeks who lived there wouldn't let the "Tsigani", and that's the nice word, come into the area, they'd run them off, with staring and glaring, and more pushy methods if that didn't work. Mostly the Tsigani try to beg in the more urban populated areas, which makes sense.

The worst place I ran into them was on the island of Rhodes, which is within view of the Turkey coast. They liked to have the disfigured children there near the Crusader castle to do the begging while the handlers would sit around the area to make sure they were insistent little beggars. You feel sorry for the kids and that's exactly what they want, but give one some change or anything and the rest will surround you looking for something too.

When there I made the mistake of being my usual self, seeing a poor old woman in widow clothing sitting near a kiosk, of buying 3 lemonadas, 2 for us and one for the old woman. The man selling it asked why the 3 and I told him and he warned me not to give her anything. I did anyway since it was a hot day, humid being near Turkey, and she looked a bit distressed in the heat. She seemed surprised, it was later I realized she was not a Greek woman but part of the Roma clan there that day. The kiosk man smiled and to this day I'm not sure if he thought it was a nice gesture, or amused I'd just done a stupid thing setting myself up to be targeted then by other Tsigani.

We went walking on toward the castle and suddenly 3-4 children were around us, about 4-8 years old, trying to sell us some distressed looking single carnations, asking too much. (there's a whole story about how they get them, but..) Even putting on my shoulder from behind and then running to the front pointing at it with one hand, the other out for money. I went to give it back and he wouldn't take it but kept asking for money, so I dropped it as I continued to walk. They kept after it till finally I'd had enough and in a loud voice yelled "Skadtha!" a couple times at them. Of course the older ones, suddenly showed active interest maybe thinking a child might be hurt. About then one of the Greek police came by toward the children tapping his stick into his hand warningly and the children backed off away from him as we continued on to the castle.

I don't regret giving the old woman a refreshment, but wish it could have been done without then becoming a target of the beggars.

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the word "Skase"
I should explain the word. Cretan dialect is a bit different than Athenian and even the word for "No" is pronounced a bit different, softer, sounding more like "oh-she" than "oh-key". The word for "shutup!" goes the other way and is harder in Cretan than Athenian, so when telling someone to shutup the "SKASE" seems to harden with a bit more spit added into it for feeling, which comes out often sounding like "Shatheh or Skatha".
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And it gets even stranger.
Seems Maria may be an albino. Her birth parents are found using DNA in Bulgaria. Her actual brothers and sisters, half of those nine other children are albinos. This also would explain the problem Maria had with her eyes requiring doctors.

I ran across an interesting story about English "gypsies", or those Roma living in England and how things were different, more open for them years ago. As populations increased and zoning came into being, things became more difficult.

Here's a wiki about Irish Travelers who bought their own land, it had been a junk yard, moved all the old junk cars off it and cleaned it up, setup trailers on it instead. The "village" which had used the junkyard had it declared "green zone" so they could run these people off their own property. There's some videos on it and one particular jerk named "Len" who deserves a good butt kicking. The odd thing is, their way of living was more conducive to keeping green areas than the village which evicted them. In fact, if they'd removed the same number of British, razed their homes and made it green area, they'd have a lot more green space available! All hail zoning! Deprecate ownership. Increase oppression.

So, why were they treated this way? The excuse is well known, but the reason is left unspoken or unacknowledged. My theory is because they are better looking than their British neighbors, enjoyed living close together with a strong sense of community whereas the British neighbors even preferred being as far from each other as they could. I'm surprised they didn't retaliate more against "Len" than trying to block his view and toss a few rocks his way after he set it on fire. "Len" even got his shotgun out to threaten them, so that earned him finally a trip with the police downtown. These were not squatters, they were land owners.
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update on "blonde angel" Maria's birth mother

My question in all of this is why not place the girl back in the family she was with and just make sure to check in on them and her with social services? At this point it looks more like they were a rescue for the child and better than the life she'd have faced with her birth parents. I wonder what happened to that couple's other children while they were/are "in custody"? Being poor isn't a crime and the child was not "stolen". I wonder if the foster parents the govt plans to place the girl with will be a settled Roma family?


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/greece-girl-marias-mum-sasha-2592009


"The mum of 'blonde angel' Maria, found in a Greek gypsy camp last week, will not be getting her child back despite DNA results yesterday proving the child is her daughter.

Sasha Ruseva is wanted by police in Greece after being caught twice before apparently trying to sell babies - both before and after she allegedly cashed in on little Maria.

Authorities have said they will now keep the four-year-old from her Bulgarian gypsy mum, 40.

Sasha and husband Atanas, 37, went into hiding yesterday, fleeing their shanty home in Nikolaevo, central Bulgarian, and seemingly abandoning two of their other young children.

Philip, 10, was seen playing in the street and shouting: "Where is mama?" along with red-headed Minka, 14.

Police came looking for the pair early in the morning followed by social services only to be met with a padlocked door on the white-walled one room house.

The DNA results announced by the Bulgarian Interior Ministry confirmed Sasha as Maria's mother and Atanas as her father but the girl is set to be placed into foster care.

Sources in Greece say they would not hand Maria back to her natural mother as she is wanted in Athens on charges of participating in baby trading."

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