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General discussion

Gun control

Oct 4, 2017 6:46PM PDT

Some folks think they should be able to have any gun they want.
Other folks think there should be no guns.

I'll take the middle ground.
I don't have a problem with people owning guns but there has to be a limit on what guns are available to the public.

I'm thinking of a base level federal rule that will apply to all states.
States can add to it but can not subtract from it.

I doubt that would fly very well with the pols as the NRA funds their reelection.

I've used an AR-15 multiple times in the past.
I can't think of a good reason why someone in the public needs a 20 shot magazine or needs to modify it to go full auto.

Discussion is locked

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RE:I can't think of a good reason why someone in the public
Oct 4, 2017 7:29PM PDT

I can't think of a good reason why someone in the public needs a 20 shot magazine or needs to modify it to go full auto.

I agree....

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I read most of the explanatory stuff, because I thought
Oct 6, 2017 9:53AM PDT

"full auto" required internal mods, which I knew are illegal.
Now I've learned about the bump stock, which is 1) external, so legal and 2) doesn't go to "full auto" technically.
However: Although it's 'less accurate because of the way it works', I doubt that matters, in the hands of an experienced shooter aiming at a group [it didn't matter] and 2) at least one gunsmith/dealer used the phrase "full auto" referring to it.
Interesting.

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Illegal...yes
Oct 6, 2017 10:30AM PDT

I have a friend who's into guns and he told me that the kit to convert an AR-15 to full auto is available.
I don't know if that's true or not.
I have to question why a weapon that was designed for one purpose....kill people...is available to the public.
I certainly don't need it to go hunting or target shooting.
There are other guns for that.

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I can understand the hunting part of it.
Oct 6, 2017 12:22PM PDT

Years ago, I would have agreed with you entirely but, since weapons made for military use must be of the best designs for field use, why would it be any different for hunting? They make these light, tough, powerful and accurate. State agencies do regulate the types of weapons that can be used for hunting but such is based less on the power of the gun than on how far an errant projectile might travel. I might also ask, however, why does anyone need a car with 800 hp that can go more than 200 mph unless they plan to use it on a race track rather than to go buy bread and milk. There's no making sense of some of the things we humans think are enjoyable.

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Hunting
Oct 6, 2017 5:19PM PDT

Yes they are small, light, durable, accurate.
It's still a weapon designed to kill people and it's quite good at it.
Give some nut case easy access to this weapon and were seeing the results.
Why isn't a pump or lever action good enough to go hunting?

As for the 800hp car, that people use to go shopping, that's designed for people with more money than brains.

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Guns and most weapons of any kind
Oct 7, 2017 2:17AM PDT

were originally designed to put meat on the table. They were meant to kill. Just like in the animal world, hunting territory was protected and folks with spears encountering other hunters with spears in their territory used them on their rivals. Eventually, guns became the hunting weapon of choice but the duality of purpose remained. You've heard the phrase "Stand and deliver" which has been attributed to highway robbers so the need for protection is nothing new. These first guns fired one shot and rifles did the same. The need for to have an advantage over an attacker created the need for revolvers and repeating rifles....and on and on it goes. With the exception of a few "purists", neither hunting or war has been about putting the participants on equal terms. I'm not a hunter so I won't try to tell hunters what should use and why they can't use something else as long as I'm safely out of their range.
As for nut cases...yes...they are out there. We don't always know who they are but, even if we did, our legal system makes it almost impossible to keep them under control. I recall a news article years ago about a group of neighbors imploring the city to put up a stop sign on one of their streets. They noted the number of "near misses" that had been witnessed. My recollection is that they were told that no stop sign could be put up until there were enough accidents occurring there to justify the cost. I wonder if they ever got their sign but, I expect that if they did, not too folks actually heed it.

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Nut cases
Oct 7, 2017 1:33PM PDT

These people have been around since day one.
They started with clubs and rocks so damage was limited.
Now we give the public access to weapons of war.
We are going to see these mass killings over and over.
The NRA has congress terrified to start blocking these type weapons.

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Agree.
Oct 7, 2017 3:13PM PDT

"You can't legislate for a nutter." Where I live in Wales, a town population around 5000, I know one person with a firearms license. He has a few medium calibre rifles which he can only shoot on a designated estate (pest control.)
He faces a yearly check on how his guns are stored (they have to be in a locked cabinet bolted to the walls and floor.)
He used to have a selection of pistols until the Gov banned them following an atrocity.
I personally have never seen an armed police officer in the flesh.
Dafydd.

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You can't legislate for a nutter.
Oct 7, 2017 3:46PM PDT

True but you can legislate what weapons the nutter has legal access to.
In the US, gun owners are so afraid of letting congress even start down that path that they will block even a sensible regulation.

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True.
Oct 7, 2017 3:56PM PDT
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Indeed. I remember thinking,
Oct 16, 2017 12:41PM PDT

"Gun crime in Scotland? They shoot grouse in Scotland!"
Notice the similarity with Sandy Hook: mostly kindergartners killed.

Unless, of course, Dunblane was also fake news, propagated by the government ...
In China and Japan they use knives. Big ones.

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Are you OK with a citizen owning
Oct 7, 2017 5:56PM PDT

a gun for the protection of his/her own home or self? If "yes", would you allow that a citizen be permitted to own a weapon that's at least as capable as the weapons known to be in the hands of criminals?

Of course, convicted felons are already excluded from legally purchasing a gun or even having one on their person. I was reminded of this restriction just this past year when I sat on jury with a man being tried for murder with gun specifications. He was also charged with possessing a gun under "disability". This meant he was a convicted felon and banned from having the murder weapon. I'm sure the dead person's family was relieved to know how well that law worked for them.

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Yes
Oct 7, 2017 6:13PM PDT

I don't have a problem with people owning a gun.
If they feel they need one for protection of self or property....fine.
I do have a problem with weapons of war being sold to the public.
That's just asking for trouble when some nut case has easy access to it.

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A question....how does one (police or govt)
Oct 12, 2017 1:50PM PDT

determine who IS a 'nutcase' who should not be able to buy a gun of any kind?
From what I understand regarding the stats on it, there are very few 'nutcases' who use 'weapons of war' as you refer to them to massacre people....some use cars or bombs or axes or knives instead.

The REAL question you should be asking is how do you keep ALL guns out of the hands of the criminals who don't give a crap about whatever laws are legislated and own everything imaginable, including guns that are more powerful than what law enforcement have available to them?

Now THOSE stats are easily proven across the country and exceedingly far outweigh those 'nutcases'.........even the killer in Las Vegas bought every single gun he owned legally even with background checks. There was nothing in his history that would have showed he was a 'nutcase' in any of those checks done.

As for the 'bump stock' issue.....thank BO for that one because he ALLOWED it to be available and legal to buy even though his administration knew what it would be used for.

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Nutcase
Oct 12, 2017 2:47PM PDT

You can't determine who is a nutcase.

When that person can easily buy a gun that was designed to kill people that's asking for trouble.

When that person can easily buy a 20/40/100 shot magazine for that gun that's asking for trouble.

I don't think that gun/magazine should be legally available to the public.

Laws can't control the black market, that market does not care about laws.

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Who do you think should
Oct 12, 2017 4:55PM PDT

protect citizens from those who don't care about the laws? Actually, the answer to that should be obvious but how well that's working is also obvious. Give us your solution here as well as your projected results.

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yes/no
Oct 7, 2017 10:19PM PDT

My yes answer still applies.

No you should not be able to legally buy any weapon that is available illegally.
If a criminal is carrying an UZI that does not mean I should be able to legally buy an UZI.

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I'm guessing it can be done.
Oct 16, 2017 12:38PM PDT

Getting your hands on a kit without getting caught is another thing.

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From what I understand, some folks knew
Oct 6, 2017 12:06PM PDT

how to "bump fire" the semi-autos before someone else got the bright idea to make the hardware that simplifies the process. I suppose this means the nut job in Vegas could have done this in a crude manner and left the store bought attachments at home.

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sort of like.....
Oct 6, 2017 12:09PM PDT

...riding a bicycle with a spring fork or seat and hitting a pothole on the way. Takes a while to quit bouncing. Wink

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Just watching Trevor Noah
Oct 4, 2017 8:21PM PDT

He had a guy on there saying the way to get gun control passed would be for the NFL players to hold up an AR 15(instead of kneeling) during the opening ceremonies of a game during the National Anthem....

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Nahhh!
Oct 6, 2017 10:05AM PDT

We'd just start chanting "USA, USA,....!"

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RE:We'd just start chanting "USA, USA,....!"
Oct 6, 2017 11:17AM PDT

While standing in silence for the National Anthem?

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Seek news and understand
Oct 6, 2017 11:20AM PDT

like usual, you bring nothing much to the discussion.

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So they chant USA, USA
Oct 6, 2017 11:50AM PDT

does that mean they agree with the people that are kneeling/holding weapons up Or disagree?

The people/kneeling, holding up AR15s ARE Americans aren't they?....

Please don't respond if you think I bring nothing to the discussion.

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no response
Oct 6, 2017 11:57AM PDT

non needed, You keep embarrassing yourself.

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So YOU have NO answer to my question
Oct 6, 2017 12:12PM PDT

The defense rests....

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Sleep tight
Oct 6, 2017 12:39PM PDT

don't let your bed bugs bite.

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RE:don't let your bed bugs bite.
Oct 6, 2017 8:05PM PDT

YOUR bedbugs?

Isn't YOUR a possessive case?

YOU "OWN" bedbugs?.....I thought the term was "have bed bugs".

Is that an American thing?

Owning bedbugs?...WHY?????

YOUR bed bugs?

MY bed bugs?

Do bed bugs realize they are "owned"?

When they bite...do they realize they are biting their owner?

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I think there needs to be more discussion
Oct 5, 2017 6:10AM PDT

about the best way to proceed to end the deliberate use of weapons on innocent citizens. What I cannot come up with is any way to, through the legislative process, put an end to manics getting their hands on these things. Those bent on criminal behavior don't care what or how many laws are on the books. These folks have no fear of the law or a legal system that's too slow to take corrective measures. It's true that too many are dying at the hands of bad persons with guns but, what we don't know is how many are being saved at the hands of good persons with guns. Reduce these person's fears of being attacked by bad persons and I'd bet that market for weapons purchased for self protection would shrink. Toss the solution at our congress and all we've done so far is incentive people to stock up the ammo.