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General discussion

Good intentions lead to a story

Jun 5, 2007 4:31PM PDT

with no winners:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=3235975&page=1

Turning the Tables on 'To Catch a Predator'
Fired Producer Marsha Bartel Sues NBC for $1 Million, Claims Show Goes Too Far

(There's a print link near the top of the 4-page story which makes it easier to read.)

I say nothing about the merits of Batrtel's case, and I have approved of what I know of the broadcast form of the shows (pre-outtakes; see story). But it's interesting and illuminating that even such a professional, well-financed effort to address a known major problem has such glitches.

Some media ethicists were not surprised by Bartel's lawsuit.
The project, from the very beginning, had lawsuit written all over it," wrote Al Tompkins, who teaches ethics in television journalism at the Poynter Institute, in an e-mail interview.

Discussion is locked

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Aside comment (maybe a topic of its own)
Jun 5, 2007 8:55PM PDT

In my opinion, TV shows and media articles relating to sting operations should be avoided. Such cannot help but provide valuable information to offenders and potential offenders. One could argue that the knowledge that someone might be watching is a deterrent. But, as well, the persistent bad guy might learn what to watch for and alter his methods. I have to wonder what sort of tactical information is revealed that might be of value to the perp to make him learn how to become more elusive. Sad

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Good point, except...
Jun 6, 2007 1:04AM PDT

The newsman who shows up in lieu of the '14-yr-old girl' says he's amazed that many of the offenders know about the show, and sometimes are heard wondering if the house is a setup!
Very few are stopped from preying by anything less than being in jail.

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Never really seen the show,
Jun 6, 2007 1:42AM PDT

But I think it is sleazy. It is good that these people get caught, but to make an entertainment show out of it is slimely. I know that they call it either "news" or "investigative", but when it is on a weekly basis, it's slimey

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I agree.
Jun 6, 2007 2:09AM PDT

There is a voyeuristic quality to these shows I find distasteful. It reminds me of accounts from the 18th,19th, and even 20th centuries when the emerging middle, and upper class society went on tours of jails and insane asylums for the pleasure of viewing the perverted side of human nature.

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(NT) TV is, in general, too sleazy....commercials and all
Jun 6, 2007 4:47AM PDT
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You're correct about the entertainment, but it's that
Jun 6, 2007 8:01AM PDT

leverage that permits the expenditure that brings out the perps. Most police depts. can't fund operations like that.

As to the level of 'perpishness': One show (maybe the NBC one) featured a recent or current Miss America, whose "platform" included a desire to attack the molestation problem. They showed her pretending to be "prey", and she said it was nerve-wracking because of the language she had to put up with. IOW, most of these guys are serious threats to humans.
HOWEVER, now it seems that some were entrapped- that is, not necessarily a serious threat, but their lives will be [unfairly] changed the same as a serial rapist. And it seems now that many of those arrested, many of them in the serious threat category, will walk.

"Preview post" not working here or on C|net; please excuse any errors.

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Did you read any of the comments?
Jun 6, 2007 6:41AM PDT

Here's one: "Lol a group of sickos goin after another group of sickos. Who sits around and pretends to be a teenage girl to lure people out? And if the person takes the bait, how is it illegal, they were talking to a grown man/woman anyway?..."

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Didn't read them; I'm interested in the story itself.
Jun 6, 2007 7:49AM PDT

Not surprised by that one, though.

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I haven't even heard about the show.
Jun 9, 2007 4:46AM PDT

My tuning in to NBC is limited to the Law and Order series and football games. So I must have missed any promos.

After reading the story, it's a mixed bag for me. On one hand I believe law enforcement needs all of the help they can get. IMO, police stings are a valuable tool, and that even though perpetrators of various crimes know they happen, their mind-set could be a denial that they could ever be caught. I doubt that any criminal thinks they will ever be caught.

Sexual predators are a bane upon society. They bring terrible misery upon their victims and the families. I'm one who thinks they cannot be "cured". I think of the crimes committed by them , and wish they could have been stopped before they happened.

On the other hand, I agree with those here who question whether the show is produced for entertainment. (The public executions of the past come to mind.) I feel the same way about some of the "reality" shows . I felt like a Peeping Tom when the camera showed me the private family moments when I watched a couple of the Gotti family ones.

I've heard that the show about wanted criminals (I forget he title) has led to arrests. (never watched it myself.) That sees to be a different approach than that taken by NBC in this case.

I doubt that "Cops" deterred many if any. The same for the threats of arrest, trials and punishments.

So I suspect the show in question would not be a deterrent, either.

Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email
semods4@yahoo.com

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As I said elsewhere, it's somewhat amazing that
Jun 9, 2007 10:42AM PDT

many of their catches are very familiar with the program. Why, then, did they come to a house that has "NBC sting" written all over it? It's the compulsion you mentioned.

Incurable is a strong word; there are exceptions, but not many. Sad

America's Most Wanted rarely if ever uses stings; it's more of an electronic, worldwide 'wanted poster'. BTW the genesis was a child abduction - that of the son of the founder and host, John Walsh.

It isn't the entertainment that makes it a "bad" show IMO, it's the potential results. Results whose potentiality has now been realized: Guilty ones will walk because of sloppy police work.

I don't know if Cops has been a deterrent in any significant way; perhaps it has, but no one has studied it. I saw a repeat just the other night that addresses your concerns: A man's wife was killed by a reckless driver; his two daughters survived. The camera stayed with him as he learned the news, and all the way to the hospital with the daughters. At the end a graphic explained why: None of the riders were wearing seat belts, and the man agreed to let Cops use all the footage as a cautionary tale. (And that poor grey-headed sergeant who had to break the news - hard to watch.)

So far, I think, the NBC show has had more wins than losses (perps sentenced vs. perps walking), but of course the suicide can't be quantified. That lawsuit, by the daughter of the dead man, will certainly settle some issues and either put the show off the air or make it more genuinely useful in addressing a very serious problem.

I'm glad I was able to hip you to some of the world outside Law & Order. Happy We're big fans of that here (especially Vincent D'Onofrio), except that the SVU scripts are getting more extreme, for no good reason we can see except ratings. **** Wolf always hires excellent actors and gives them a loose rein. But for a series that outdoes L&N and the CSI stuff (which I detest as art, entertainment, science, and procedurals), try a Canadian series called DaVinci's Inquest. The first season is on DVD and subsequent ones are on YouTube.

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When I read about some criminal
Jun 9, 2007 8:46PM PDT

I usually get the impression he's a dumb one.