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General discussion

Going Hi Def but Canon HV10 or Sony HDR HC3-Which is better?

Sep 26, 2006 9:52AM PDT

Going HiDef but Canon HV10 or Sony HDR HC3? Which is truly better?
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Got to a local store!

Was all set to order today from an online place as it would allow me to save a bit of money...enough to possibly purchase an extended warranty. (which I'm still considering even tho' usually I run from them like the plague!) If I do get an extended warranty, would only do 2 yrs.

Anyway, walked in thinking my decision would be between the Hard Drive Sony 100 vs. the Hi Def Sony HC3. I hadn't seen nor tried the HiDef one before, so wanted to see if ergonimically I could take its extra heft, etc. (smallish hands)
(This store didn't happen to have the Hard Drive one there to try, but I saw it yesterday.)

Instead, this store had the new Canon HiDef which is a very different shape then Sony's and probably actually works a bit better in my hands. (and I can't get over how much smaller it seems as far as placing all the same stuff on it but more compactly)

But I do realize this comes at a cost sometimes as they can be more sensitive to shakes if too small.

Anyway, I ended up ''blinking'' and unable to make the call by the deadline today that I had set for ordering online! :-\
And I never dreamed I do that!! :-{

Total bummer, but I think can still do it tomorrow, just will have even less time to try things.

Anyone out there try both of these Hi Def camcorders before?

I realize Sony has many, many fans & many more reviews too on places like Amazon, etc. So I guess I should take 'comfort' in that.

However, the Canon is newer, so that might explain the fewer reviews and Sony just being so popular, in general.

I'm wondering...do the Sony fans say the HiDef is so wonderful & crisp, having never seen a Canon yet? I try not to get swayed by the LCD screens, as Canon always seem to excel w/them...just blows AWAY the clarity and colors of the Sony one.

BUT...this place actually had only the Sony hooked up to a HiDef computer monitor...with touch & go connections unfortunately.
But with that, it sure didn't look particularly clear, nor colors one half as good as Canon's on the small LCD.

Granted, a smaller screen will look sharper than any enlarged thing but...I have to wonder.

When camcorderinfo.com calls them a draw and gives the slight advantage to Sony due to ergonomics...and auto features which make operation easier, if that comes at a cost?

Or I should say Sony's reported ''better low light'' operation perhaps comes at a great cost in clarity and colors?

I couldn't help but see things in the store (w/what should have been pretty bright looking) as being exceedingly ''noisy'' from the Sony.

So what gives? Are fans of Sony like Mac fans...? Just sometimes so in love w/the company that it makes it hard to see things as clearly? (just kidding, I love Macs, too, btw...like both options!) Wink

But I wonder? Naturally most Sony HC3 users will never have had the opportunity to compare like this, so I don't mean to sound critical at ALL. Just wondering, if *anyone* out here HAS tried both in a way that permitted probably more fair viewing than my darn store had set up! Would save me here as I waste more hours tonight pouring over things.

The colors on the Canon just seemed far superior. (again might only be LCD that has that) And, more importantly, it seemed to somehow
focus more quickly & readily overall in the store. And yet...it's the Sonys which are supposed to be better indoors, I thought???
So I do NOT get that.

Please...if anyone has tried out both...share your wisdom.

The sole factor that the Sony comes w/an outlet for HDMI cable was going to decide it for me almost. UNTIL...I started noticing what seemed like subpar imagery.

And then I thought...what good does that capability DO really, IF,
IF...somehow its HiDef isn't as accurate or spot-on w/focusing?

Thanks for being patient with me, but I guess I never should have considered a camcorder, as maybe I'm just expecting too much. And once I went over 1k in money...truly expected a LOT.
Thanks for 'listening.' Happy
Share any thoughts.

Discussion is locked

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I use a Sony HDR-HC1.
Sep 26, 2006 1:16PM PDT

It was around about a year before the HC3 came out. My guess is they took some consumer comments on the HC1 and turned it into the HC3 (bottom loading tape on HC1; top loading tape on HC3).

I have owned Canon cameras before this and really like them (though they were not HD). You brought up the only two real differences I could come up with on the machines... the Sony HC3 has an HDMI connection - which is fine if the TV you are connecting to has that same connection. The other interesting item you mentioned is focus.

As with nearly all Sony camcorders (I recently found out), the HC3 uses a touch screen. One of the features in my HC1 (which I believe carried to the HC3) is Spot focus - that is, you get into that mode through the menu and when you want to focus on something in particular, touch the area on the LCD screen.

I also believe that the HC3 has manual focus and zoom - and I do not believe the Canon has either... and I am fairly certain it does not have the spot focus capability either.

Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with either camera - it will be WAY better than what your friends/neighbors/acquaintances have... and even when the video is redered down to standard def, the source was so clear, the SD output will still be awesome.

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Thanks so much!
Sep 26, 2006 9:13PM PDT

'Tis a very tough choice. Arggghhhhh! :-\

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You should check the specs on the Canon, or you won't
Sep 26, 2006 11:34PM PDT

make an informed pick.

The Canon has a 10x zoom and manual focus, and it may have optical stabilization which would be better than the Sony's electronic stabilization. It also has a better low light capability.

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I agree that stabilization method *might*
Sep 27, 2006 2:27AM PDT

be an issue (optical vs electronic).

Both cameras have 10x zoom (turn digital zoom OFF on either camera).

The HC3 claims "manual" focus - but I think that is via its Spot-focus feature which uses the touch screen.

The optional H10 tele-converter goes to 1.7x; HC3 optional tele is 2x. They both have optional 0.7 wide-angle lens accessories available.

Canon lenses have a great reputation - as do the Carl Zeiss lenses Sony uses.

HC3 has LANC control capability - H10 does not appear to have this. I use mine all the time - very cool. A cabled "remote control" that clips to the tripod "handle" that lets you zoom in/out, take stills while filming and "sleep" the camera rather than having to wait for it to go to sleep - good for power/battery savings - and of course, wake the camera again. Being on the tripod keeps you from touching the camera, thus reducing shake/jump...

Both have FireWire (Sony calls it "iLink") for miniDV video transfer; HC3 has USB1.1 and HC10 has USB2 for transferring stuff off the memory cards...

HC3 has HDMI; I don't think the H10 does - but if you don't have a HDMI-equipped TV/monitor or not planning on getting one, it does not matter.

HC3 CMOS is a teeny bit larger (1/3" vs 1/1.27"). Though I couldn't find much detail on the actual low-light capabilities of the H10, so I defer to Kiddpeat...

Neither includes a FireWire cable in the box... That is SO stupid.

Overall, I think either camera will work just fine for you... and yes, there are trade-offs. There ALWAYS are! In this particular case, the differences are not earth-shattering for the use you have specified...

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Could you help explain....? Thanks!
Sep 27, 2006 9:52AM PDT

LANC control capability ?

I do see a remote in box for Canon that appeared to have a zoom button etc which I assume is for recording. BUT...does one have to have a cable to connect it for it to be LANC control capability?

Is this superior to remote operation of buttons if I would get a trip/monopod thing?

Lastly, when camcorderinfo.com compared them
head to head in review of CanonHV10 (great info there!)...it seemed the Canon came out slightly ahead on resolution & focus features. BUT...did poorly in low light comparison. And it ranked low for lack of HDMI output. We will be getting a Hi Def TV soon, so that concerns me as it sounds like the most accurate rendering of info to the screen?

Or would you know if using other cable option would produce as clean a result on a Hi Def Tv?

Thanks so very much for sharing your wisdom! This is just a huge decision for me, financially. And, having had Canon break before you'd think I'd never consider again. But they lure me in each time w/their spectacular LCD's which I know mean little in regard to what they produce at home! Wink

But it's so hard not to think they MUST be clearer & quicker to focus since that's how it appears. (and brighter & more colorful) Sigh...

Thanks & tonight I make my final call. Found both at Best Buy locally & they will discount enough I guess I'll go nuts & get their darn extended warranty after bad prior experience w/my one & only camcorder. (5 yrs ago when it broke in just months! The tape mechanism ate 'em) Any further advice sincerely appreciated for this confused gal. Thanks!! Happy

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LANC or what?
Sep 27, 2006 11:12PM PDT

So, LANC is a WIRED "remote". The cable is ~3 feet long. Like I said before, zoom in/out stills sleep/wake. the controller clips to the tripod handle and it is sort of like the big-boy TV cameras where all the controls are on the handles.

Both cameras come with a wireless remote that has those same feartures, but its real value is for controlling playback if you connect you camrea to a TV/monitor.

With the LANC control you would tyipcally be BEHIND the camera. With the wireless remote, you would typically be infront of the camera - my HC3 can't "see" the infrared from the wireless remote when I am behind the camera. Neither could any of my Eluras.

If you decide on the HC3, I don't think I would recommend the Sony tripod with built-in LANC... I use the LANC control when the camera is not - and is - on the tripod. (The set up is a LONG story... maybe another time.)

Does this help?

You aren't at all confused - just asking the right questions.

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(NT) (NT) Specs are on B&H including lux levels.
Sep 27, 2006 1:52PM PDT
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Wondering about your low light comment most esp!
Sep 27, 2006 9:25AM PDT

I actually read the Sony's was superior in low light in a review on Camcorderinfo.com. (where they compared the two head to head)

But, I've noted a review in NYTimes and a few side comments from others, indicating otherwise, so am totally confused re: this element. (which is kinda key for me, but not super key as not taking indoor photos THAT much)

BUT...I did read that to a camcorder an awful lot IS low light settings ...far more than we'd think. So I'm guessing animals in the woods would be & dusk wildlife viewing too.

Help? Could you share how you happened to have the impression that the Canon is better for low light?
Would so appreciate it! Happy

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Low light
Sep 27, 2006 10:13AM PDT

I also read that review, and the Canon got aweful marks on low light ability.
The Sony, on the other hand, got very good remarks in the low light department.

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As I noted above, the specs for both are on the B&H
Sep 27, 2006 2:02PM PDT

website. The Canon HV10 has:

Lux Auto Mode: - 5 lux
Night Mode: - 3 lux

The Sony is:

Lux 5 Lux

Giving Canon better performance in its 'night mode'.

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Thanks, but...
Sep 27, 2006 8:54PM PDT

Unfortunately, I don't understand enough about lux...at least not this moment to take much from that.

Odd how in one extensive review they criticized Canon hard for its poor low light performance. But like I said, some 'real world' users seem to indicate otherwise.

Wish there were some Canon HV10 owners out there who could offer some concrete feedback, but I guess the darn thing is just too new, for me to hope for that.

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HC3 also includes "SuperNight Shot"
Sep 27, 2006 11:18PM PDT

which uses an infrared emitterfor that monochrome look - at 0 lux...

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Still image quality?
Oct 25, 2006 11:51PM PDT

Hello,
I want to get a hi-def camcorder with the best still image quality. I know the sony has a 4mp spec while the canon has a 3mp but my experience w/canon's other digital still camera has been stellar. (my old powershot 3.3mp took great pics!) Heck, the Sanyo's HiDef camcorder has a 5mp censor & takes terrible stills. I'm not asking for much -- I just want a super-performing all-in-one device! ^_^ So what's best?

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If you want really good stills
Oct 26, 2006 2:30AM PDT

you should probably consider a still camera. That said, I use a Sony HDR-HC1 - the predecessor to the HDR-HC3 (but if you read through the posts on this discussion, you already know that)... which means I can't give you much on the HV10, and I understand your concerns regarding the Sony-popularity thing.

Anyway, I used to have a Canon, and at the point I wanted a new camera, the HV10 was not yet out. As it is, I do like all the manual things on the HC1 - many of which dropped off the HC3.

Two interesting differences I have noted between the HC3 and the HV10... First, the HC3 has a LANC connector. It is REALLY handy. I had never used one, and have found it REALLY useful. Second, the "spot focus" on the LCD screen on the HC3 will help a LOT... remember, hidef video has 4x more info, so fucs is REALLY important. Yes, I know the Canon has a really fast auto focus feature and I have every confidence it works well.

The other thing I have found, in case you stay with a camcorder to take stills is that the still images taken while the camera is recording seem to be better that the still images taken when the camera is not recording. I don't know why this is, I have not investigated that, I just know it is.

If your budget can handle it, would you consider the Sony HVR-A1U? It seems to not get much press - but it is a "new and improved", pro version of the HDR-HC1...

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Canon HV-10 Still Image quality
Nov 5, 2006 10:50PM PST

I've got the Canon HV-10 and love it's still quality.
Have a look at my Flickr page for some amateur samples (unaltered).
http://flickr.com/photos/hbtphotos/

I think you will be impressed by the clarity and resolution of the photos, I know I am.

I can't compare it to the Sony HC3 as I haven't tried it.

What I can say is that for me the HV-10 with it's optical image stabilisation, relatively large CMOS image sensor and super zoom allows me to take nice portraits and macros with very little colour noise.

I also like shooting widescreen as the pics look great on the widescreen TV.