Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

General discussion

Global warming - temperature records "adjusted"?

Feb 8, 2015 6:43PM PST

I am one of those who believe that humanity and it's industrial, farming, social and other excesses are affecting global temperatures.

However, when I read things like "The fiddling with temperature data is the biggest science scandal ever", (MSN via "The Telegraph" UK newspaper), even I have to consider what we are being told.

Figures often speak for themselves; but if those figures are being manipulated then they are worthless. Who, then, do we trust?

Mark

Discussion is locked

- Collapse -
RE: You must have a tremendous amount of time
Feb 12, 2015 10:16PM PST
You must have a tremendous amount of time with nothing better to do then..

The only people that have less to do that me are people that respond to me.
- Collapse -
First, data fudging goes back at least to Ptolemy the
Feb 9, 2015 5:51AM PST

astronomer, and Mendeleev the plant biologist. Continues today. NPR talked to a scientist the other day who was involved in research into mental development. She had a question and researched it herself. Didn't like what she found and backed out and went public. She says the pressure there was $$ for the next research.
New Yorker magazine had a piece some time ago about the large number of "scientific facts" which are based on first-rate, respected papers- but the work cannot be repeated with the same findings. Maybe we don't know anything.

Second, y'all can read a new book, Tambora. It's about the volcano of 1815 that caused "the year of 1800-and-froze-to-death" aka "the year with no summer". The author's clearly-stated stand is, 'There is warming and it's mostly man-made'. (Just a heads up; I myself don't care.) Along the way he does a good job of explaining temp shifts and such. Good background for any discussion.


Not that we bother with facts, anyway. Happy

- Collapse -
I have a serius question regarding
Feb 9, 2015 7:02PM PST

>>>I am one of those who believe that humanity and it's industrial, farming, social and other excesses are affecting global temperatures.>>>

Liberals totally believe in being progressive.....and all definitions I can find for 'progressive' means 'going forward'. And yet, comments like yours confuse the hell out of me.

Are we to no longer progress our civilization by eliminating manufacturing from the industrial world, are we to no longer farm in order to feed the ever growing populations and who determines what is 'excessive' and no longer necessary because the less bodies we have by letting them starve or be killed trying to feed themselves, the less body heat is transmitted into the 'global' atmosphere?

What 'social' issues do you believe contributes to 'global temperatures'?

Do you suggest that, even though the USA has already reduced 'pollution' emissions so much that entire industries have been forced out of the country or shut down completely (steel, mining, refining, lightbulbs, etc), having tens of millions of our USA population alone on the government dole because jobs are no longer available is a better alternative than self-reliance and self-responsibility? "Trade" type jobs are no longer being taught......not all 'progressive' jobs are going to be in technology alone. People will still need to hire a plumber, electrician, carpenter, auto repair/service person, etc.

What good comes from having excessively high restrictions put on industries and farming in the USA when global winds from other countries who ignore what progressives want in order to have their own countries come into the current century and provide for their population? You can call it 'global' all you want, but you will never stop 'progress' globally and their 'pollution' will continue to travel around that globe.....and the USA will pretty much cease to exist on any global market because of your 'progessivism'. Or is that the ultimate goal?

- Collapse -
Of course, humans have an effect.
Feb 9, 2015 7:32PM PST

From the very first of them they had an effect. Expanding populations need space, energy and food. We are no different from the plant and animal kingdoms in this regard. There's no need to panic. Panic doesn't tend to bring about good solutions. We've gone through a lot of panic attacks in my lifetime. I can recall the war on excessive packaging that was going to cause us to all end up living in or near a dump. What has happened to the packaging industry. It's grown to even greater proportions and people waste far more than ever. When we scale back and stop being wasteful, jobs are lost. One panic attack just replaces another and all they do is feed the politicians more to harp about.

- Collapse -
You're confused? I'm confused at your confusion!
Feb 10, 2015 6:59PM PST

You said, Liberals totally believe in being progressive.....and all definitions I can find for 'progressive' means 'going forward'. And yet, comments like yours confuse the hell out of me.

Who brought liberals into this thread? I didn't.

That said, are Liberals the only ones who are allowed to be progressive in your version of societies? Are there no progressive Conservatives?

Do all Liberals totally believe in being progressive? Totally? Are there no exceptions?

Do all Conservatives not believe in progression, at all? Not even a little bit?

Where did I say you must cease manufacturing, cease farming?

- Collapse -
Yes, there are many
Feb 10, 2015 7:25PM PST

conservatives who are progressive....Teddy Roosevelt and John McCain come to mind quickly....and not all progressive agendas are good ones, Mark, and yet most liberals believe ANY agenda they push for is 'good'. But usually, it only turns out to be good for investors of that agenda (think Al Gore and Hollywood elite) who never have to abide by those same 'rules' that the lower income people pay for. However, any conservative who argues against those agendas are considered to be 'extreme' (think Tea Party and all the names they've been called when they push back) or 'radical' or 'hate mongers' or whatever else can be dreamed up. Kill/smear the messenger rather than legitimately debate the message. The exceptions are far and few between and you know it.

You stated 'excessive'......but who decides what is excessive, Mark? How many industries have to be shut down by liberal/environmentalist lobbyists/union demands before it's no longer 'excessive'?

How many farmers have to be weeded out or eaten up by huge conglomerates before you don't think it's excessive? And how is farming, in your opinion, excessive to begin with? Many farmers, including the huge ones, are told by the Federal Government when they can plant, what they can plant, and when they are paid to NOT plant.

- Collapse -
So now that we agree that both Liberals AND Conservatives
Feb 10, 2015 7:55PM PST

believe that humans do affect the environment, I return to my original post in which I expressed my dismay at how we are being tricked by flawed data on global warming.

- Collapse -
what Liberals call "progress"
Feb 10, 2015 7:57PM PST

we look on as "regress". We are the truly progressive, because our policies engender better moral and economic progress. The Liberals are a psuedo progressive group, but they've lied about it so long, we just let them keep the term. It's like the word "gay", people used to like it, now due to newer association they don't, or not as much. Words become unacceptable over time due to their associations by those who misuse them.

- Collapse -
RE: our policies engender better moral and economic progress
Feb 10, 2015 8:24PM PST

That's all it includes? moral and economic?

It doesn't include science, technology and social organization?

Why not?


Progressivism is a broad philosophy based on the Idea of Progress, which asserts that advancement in science, technology, economic development, and social organization are vital to improve the human condition.

- Collapse -
I limited it to
Feb 10, 2015 8:42PM PST

comparison with the greatest failures of Liberals today.

- Collapse -
All of those examples
Feb 10, 2015 8:48PM PST

make those with those agendas make more and more money off the lower income people who have to pay for it. Yep....it's "BROAD" alright....mostly with 'exemptions' for those who don't feel they need to comply with what takes place for the majority of people.

"Social organization"..........are you serious? Can you even DEFINE what that encompasses with a straight face?

- Collapse -
RE: with a straight face?
Feb 10, 2015 11:11PM PST
- Collapse -
Social organization? In other words,
Feb 10, 2015 9:22PM PST

all must be on the same page? You think like the crowd things and you go where the crowd goes? Individualism is counter-productive?

- Collapse -
RE: Individualism is counter-productive?
Feb 10, 2015 10:14PM PST

You want everyone to go their separate ways?

You're outta' here?

Where are you going?

Anyone else going with you?

Why?

- Collapse -
Ahh....can you feel the harmony?...
Feb 10, 2015 11:14PM PST

or is it chaos?

A murmuration of starlings

all flocking together, keeping safe from predators, jockeying for social position, but going nowhere.

- Collapse -
RE: but going nowhere.
Feb 10, 2015 11:25PM PST

I guess they have everything they need to survive (until they die).....

Why would they want to leave?

Fly south each year to get frequent flyer miles?

- Collapse -
I could be all wrong about the meaning
Feb 10, 2015 11:58PM PST

of "social organization". It could well be it means everyone knows their place in society, and knows with whom they may mingle and whom they should not

- Collapse -
So you disagree with Toni then?
Feb 10, 2015 10:57PM PST

Only, she said, "Liberals totally believe in being progressive", (my underlining).

- Collapse -
I never said
Feb 10, 2015 11:27PM PST

ALL liberals totally believe......I said 'liberals totally believe'......which means that liberal believe TOTALLY when they believe. Guess you missed the missing "ALL" and made an assumption.

- Collapse -
Ahh, I see.
Feb 11, 2015 2:39AM PST

So now you are saying only some Liberals TOTALLY believe.

That means some don't. Or, since you haven't quantified it yourself, your statement could mean the majority don't.

Or let's face it, it could mean anything really couldn't it. Your statement could mean anything.

- Collapse -
Compare
Feb 11, 2015 3:26AM PST

the numbers of conservatives vs liberals who totally believe.....most conservatives don't even believe a LITTLE and see it as mainly a liberal agenda to make money off 'fear mongering'.....and it's been going on with tree huggers for a very long time. Groups and very wealthy liberals have been exploiting this crap for a long time as their pockets get heavier and heavier all on the backs of the lower income people who have to pay for those restrictions and regulations.....with absolutely NO viable proof in the stats that they have put out (even according to your own article posted) because they've been 'cooked' in their favor.

Do you dispute that? And do you dispute that most of this garbage has come from the left and NOT from the right?

- Collapse -
Compare what?
Feb 11, 2015 4:03AM PST

Where are your statistics for these claims?

And now you introduce "tree huggers". Liberals, I assume?

Mark

- Collapse -
Polls
Feb 11, 2015 11:08PM PST
- Collapse -
tree huggers
Feb 12, 2015 4:57AM PST

means free hamburgers with every tree you cut down. Wink

- Collapse -
RE: Compare the numbers
Feb 11, 2015 4:08AM PST
Compare the numbers the numbers of conservatives vs liberals who totally believe..

Please do...Do you have any, since YOU made the suggestion.

Of course you didn't say believe in what, so, since today you're being particularly nit-picky, are we talking about believing in Santa Claus?

Is this a rant, by you, against fellow GOPers that don't support the Tea Party?

I see Oregon has an "Independent Party".

Time for the Tea Party to grow a set and move out of the house?
- Collapse -
You mean it's liberals that are saying
Feb 12, 2015 3:38AM PST

that you must have at least a dozen guns in your house to defend yourself against intruders and the government?

It's liberals that are making all the laws about what hoops you have to jump through to vote because of all the fraud that is going on in voting (you know all those illegals that are voting)?

It's liberals that are killing abortion doctors because they are killing babies?

It's liberals that want to restrict birth control because that will make women more promiscuous.

It's liberals that only want to teach abstinence in schools because the kids might think it's okay to have sex.

It's liberals that told everyone that ebola was coming into the country with illegals.

It's liberals that spread the lies that illegals must have brought measles into Disneyland.

It's liberals that talk about what fantastic leaders are the dictators and kings of various countries like Egypt, Jordon and Russia are.

It's liberals that then turn around and say that Obama is acting like a king or dictator.

It's liberals that want to stop two people that love each other from getting married because it will destroy the sanctity of marriage.

It's liberals that want to send the children back to their home countries so they can be killed.

It's liberals that complain about Obama not putting boots on the ground so more of our soldiers can be killed.

It's liberals that now complain about Obama taking to Congress to wage war on ISIS and not wanting to put boots on the ground except in special circumstances.

It's liberals that want Obama to specify what the strategy will be in the Middle East and what the end game will be.

It's liberals that didn't ask that of Bush.

Shall I go on about those terrible liberals that just do fear mongering?

- Collapse -
OK....let's do this
Feb 12, 2015 4:26AM PST

that you must have at least a dozen guns in your house to defend yourself against intruders and the government?

>>>>guns are a CONSTITUTIONAL legality for qualified citizens to protect themselves>>>

It's liberals that are making all the laws about what hoops you have to jump through to vote because of all the fraud that is going on in voting (you know all those illegals that are voting)?

>>>Are you saying there won't BE any fraud with 4M illegals getting ID cards that will allow them to vote in elections they shouldn't be ABLE to vote in EVER? What hoops? If a legal citizens can get to a DMV to get a State ID card in order to get foodstamps and other benefits and to get an actual driver's license, how is it a hardship to get back to that DMV to get a voter ID card? How exactly is that voter suppression according to liberals? Bush had indictments ready for trial set in place against the New Black Party for voter intimidation....Holder's very first action as AG was to drop those charges, even when videos were out showing their leader saying that white babies should be killed.......do you think he would have done that if the races had been reversed?>>>>

It's liberals that are killing abortion doctors because they are killing babies?

>>>When was the last killing done of a doctor performing abortions, compared to the last DOCTOR being convicted of ACTUALLY killing LIVE babies in an abortion clinic?>>>>

It's liberals that want to restrict birth control because that will make women more promiscuous.

>>>>The only restrictions Republicans have attempted to being about are safer conditions for women having those abortions, and to make sure none were performed after 20 weeks. What 'birth control' are you talking about? Birth control has NEVER been restricted except for religious purposes.>>>>>>>

It's liberals that only want to teach abstinence in schools because the kids might think it's okay to have sex.

>>>That's not true....but abstinence should actually be ANOTHER viable option that is taught, don't you think, rather than exclude it from the conversation?>>>>

It's liberals that told everyone that ebola was coming into the country with illegals.

>>>Untrue....What conservatives said was that with open borders that BO has allowed to happen with little to no controls over it, that a desperate person could easily enter this country illegally in order to get treatment. Liberals used fear mongering to distort that.>>>>

It's liberals that spread the lies that illegals must have brought measles into Disneyland.

>>>Untrue, again....there have been TWO people who have even suggested it that I know of, and I happen to be one of those two. AND that idea wasn't too far fetched since so many illegals in Sept and Oct were pouring into the country, most of which were children who were shipped all over the country. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to think that at least a FEW of them were taken on a once-in-a-lifetime vacation by their care-takers and the outbreak began shortly afterward.>>>>

It's liberals that talk about what fantastic leaders are the dictators and kings of various countries like Egypt, Jordon and Russia are.

>>>What in hell are you talking about? Unless it's that SOME dictators should have been left in place (like in Libya and Egypt) because they kept the terrorist factions out of their countries.>>>>

It's liberals that then turn around and say that Obama is acting like a king or dictator.

>>>Liberals have brown lips and would never admit that he is more like an Emporer.>>>>

It's liberals that want to stop two people that love each other from getting married because it will destroy the sanctity of marriage.

>>>Conservatives have always supported the DOMA law....it's the liberal President POS that chose to ignore it along with liberal Federal judges. Even Clinton supported DOMA. And you actually ignore the fact that many gays themselves didn't push for any changes to it other than to have a 'civil union'. And, yes, the sanctity of traditional marriage has been destroyed by liberals.....except for sperm clinics or adoption, if traditional marriage is no longer acceptable in a liberal world, how do you expect to carry on your family name and history? Evidently, it means nothing anymore because we should all be 'equal and the same', right?>>>>>

It's liberals that want to send the children back to their home countries so they can be killed.

>>>Good grief....let them take their parents with them and get their OWN governments to finally take care of them instead of allowing that country to be so corrupted that the only hope is ANOTHER country to save THEIR family history by taking them in.>>>>

It's liberals that complain about Obama not putting boots on the ground so more of our soldiers can be killed.

>>>BO had many chances to NOT have a war with ISIS and all of their new places of operation......and he did NOTHING as usual for MONTHS, including arming the moderate rebels in Syria against the 'red-lined' Assad and the Kurds in Iraq, allowing ISIS to become more bold and more of the killing machine they've become. IF he had done what he had said he was going to do from the beginning, his chickens wouldn't be coming home to roost and haunt him and his legacy. NOBODY wanted/wants boots on the ground....but it's getting to the point where that might actually HAVE to happen now, and yes, it IS his fault.>>>>>

It's liberals that now complain about Obama taking to Congress to wage war on ISIS and not wanting to put boots on the ground except in special circumstances.

>>>Have you SEEN the report or at least heard most of what's in it since the media actually DOES have it? What he's doing with this report request is trying to cover his own *** and put the blame for failure square onto the shoulders of Republicans and the next President with the way it's worded. Everything that is in that report, he ALREADY has power and authority to carry out.....but he won't do it and needs somebody to blame when it goes sideways. The report literally dictates what our military can and can't do, tying their hands behind their backs again, and the end date again telegraphing to the terrorists once again when we will leave. The Republicans will be making some changes to it, I'm sure, before sending it back to him.>>>>

It's liberals that want Obama to specify what the strategy will be in the Middle East and what the end game will be.

>>>>Is that really such a bad thing to want since he's never had a strategy yet because he chooses to allow Rice and Jarrett to micromanage the military instead of the Pentagon and the experienced military men in charge? This is what happened in VietNam......politicians and nobodys dictating the tactics.>>>>

It's liberals that didn't ask that of Bush.

>>>Liberals VOTED for everything Bush wanted to do and he took it all to Congress BEFORE going into Afghanistan and again BEFORE going into Iraq.....BO has NEVER done that until two days ago, and he's ONLY done it to lay the foundation for the blame game.>>>>>>>>>

Shall I go on about those terrible liberals that just do fear mongering?

>>>Nope, you can quit anytime you feel you need to, and I agree....they are pretty terrible.>>>>

- Collapse -
These are all liberals as wel
Feb 12, 2015 4:58AM PST

Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) describes his $696 million tax cut as a helping hand to small businesses. But the design of the cut would put the bulk of that benefit into the hands of just a few high-income business entities with a handful of employees while providing just a few hundred dollars each to the vast majority of the people who would benefit, according to an analysis by the Cleveland Plain Dealer. For nine out of every 10 companies that would benefit from the Kasich cut, the total yearly savings would be $364 or even less.

For the remaining 10 percent of companies affected, savings could be as high as $8,000 a year, a number that Kasich administration officials acknowledge is far too low to create even a single job per company. Instead of pitching the cut as a direct job creator, the officials are marketing it as an "every little bit helps" move for hardworking entrepreneurs.

In Louisiana, Arizona, Wisconsin, and elsewhere, heads of state are proposing 2015 budgets that would shrink the pool of money available for public services in order to put more money into wealthy interests' pockets. Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) has proposed to use public resources to finance a new NBA stadium for the billionaire owners of the Milwaukee Bucks, alongside huge cuts to the state's public universities. Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) wants to cut hundreds of millions of dollars from the state's higher education system while refusing to shrink the state's generous tax breaks to industry amid broader budget trouble. And in Arizona, Gov. David Ducey (R) has proposed almost $400 million in public spending cuts while also asking taxpayers to spend $5 million building a new for-profit, privately owned prison.

- Collapse -
Totally off topic, Diana....
Feb 12, 2015 6:02AM PST

with no links to your paragraphs....were they all on one newspage website, from three or more different sources, etc? I have no idea what any of this has to do with most liberal progressives totally believing in global warming compared to conservatives not being believers and the continual debate or argument that BO refers us to as 'flat earthers' because we DON'T believe. He also has stated just a few days ago that climate change in a worse threat than the terrorists are....

Your post doesn't even bother to debate ANY of your previous 'liberals' statements that I refuted one at a time. Does that mean you are done because you have nothing more to debate about?

- Collapse -
SHE'S off topic???? Have you seen
Feb 12, 2015 7:39AM PST

Steven and James and Bill and myself???
Happy