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General discussion

Getting rid of old computer; what should I do before proceeding?

Jan 27, 2012 7:26AM PST
Question:

Getting rid of old computer; what should I do before proceeding?


Hello, everyone, I had an old Windows desktop computer given to me by my son when he got his Apple and now I have upgraded to a HP laptop. My question is how do I destroy all the personal information on the old desktop, including all bank details? I got rid of the keyboard, speakers, etc., but I still have the main box that holds all the info. I am scared to throw it out, and it has been sitting in the corner of the room for nearly three years and is an eyesore. What are my options--as to what do I need to do specifically? A detailed explanation and step-by-step procedures are needed. Please help me; I would be ever so grateful. Many thanks.

- Submitted by: Shirley H.

Discussion is locked

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Make beautiful music with it.
Feb 8, 2012 3:14PM PST

You have a lot of the info you need but I thought I'd add to it. You can take out the hard drive like the others have said and open up the hard drive. take the magnets out for fridge magnets. Then remove all the round disks that hold the data. Get a drill and drill a single hole in the disks. Get some old fishing line and cut it into 12 inch length. One for each of the round platters. Go to a craft store and get a wind chime thingy and turn the platters into a wind chime to make beautiful music on a windy day.

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old computers
Feb 25, 2012 5:08AM PST

you could send it to my 17yr old son he usually renders any computer unusable within hours

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curious....
Mar 3, 2012 9:45AM PST

I know I'm weighing in a little late on this, but there is something I've kind of wondered about, regarding this. First, let me say that, clearly the safest thing to do if you have any sensitive data on your drive is just to destroy it thoroughly. Now that I have that out of the way, let me ask this. Let's say I have a PC I want to dispose of. I decide I want to donate it, or perhaps sell it on E-bay or Craig's list or something. Let's say that I use a decent file-shredder tool and wipe out the hard drive, complete with many, many rewrites, according to this or that government spec. (plenty of free tools to do this easily). Then, I do a clean resinstall of the OS, and sell or give away the machine. Really now, what do you think are the odds are that anyone will buy this machine, tear it apart, use NSA-like recovery tools to find, what, pictures of my kids? I don't have my SSN anywhere on my computer. I guess they could somehow hack the temporary internet files and strong encryption to find out my email password (which isn't actually set to be stored, but probably is somehow discoverable?) Who would be doing this exactly? What kind of resources might they need? Before you go crazy, ask yourself just what's on the machine you need to protect and who's going to bother? Again, better safe than sorry, but just wondering about how real this is for most people.

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Good question
Mar 3, 2012 12:08PM PST

You want to know how much is recoverable on the hard drive if you use, say, DBAN or similar software? How about zip, nada, none, ain't no way no how! The drive is clean. There is NOTHING on it. You can't even format it or install anything until you set partition marks on it first with something like Partition Master. The last pass DBAN does is to write binary zeros from track 0 position 0 (absolute start of the drive) to the end of the drive. That isn't the number '0', that's a binary 'nothin' at all'. The DoD, CIA, and NSA could spend centuries on it and won't find anything. Therefore, no fear! Wink

What to do with it after doing the wipe? Find a non-profit agency in your yellow pages like the Literacy Council or Red Cross, take the machine to them, tell them you wiped the hard drive, and say goodbye. Or, if your kids (grandkids) want to use it, partition it and load a fresh Windows OS or install a Linux distribution on it and back away with a smile.

Myself? I send my equipment to the Literacy Council since they use systems to fight illiteracy. Locally, the ESLC tutors folks that didn't get past the 2nd grade and cannot read OR write, to the point they earn a GED. They also teach Foreign Nationals how to speak, read, and write English effectively. They ALWAYS need PCs. Call around your area and see who needs equipment. Some agencies operate on grant money and sometimes need but can't afford a PC.

I wouldn't try to sell a system that is more than 5 years old. It just isn't worth anything. Better to give it to someone who could put it to good use.

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"...who's going to bother?"
Mar 3, 2012 3:11PM PST

First, porshe10x, your point that there may not be anything of real value on the drive that could be damaging may be quite valid. But just how likely is that? Well, that depends upon how many tax records have been stored on that drive or what banking/shopping transactions have been done from that computer. It also depends upon what other types of sensitive information has stored on that drive. If none of that has ever existed on that drive, then some here are correct in that it would be perfectly safe to "wipe" the drive and pass it on. But, again, how likely is it that there has been absolutely no sensitive personal info or other files ever saved to that drive? If it's only ever been your own drive and you are absolutely sure that no one but you has ever used that drive so you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you've never ever stored even the remotest sensitive personal information on it then you're safe.

As for "who's going to bother?" Well, let's just say that whomever buys that machine from you on E-bay or Craig's list winds up having it confiscated by the authorities because they've used it for some nefarious illegal purpose (just one obvious example would be interstate or even international kiddie porn). The authorities DO have the resources to dig and dig deep to find every single 1 and 0 that has ever been placed on that drive. To understand and learn more about Data Remanence please read this article. Once you've read that you'll be able to research more on your own in order to enrich your understanding further.

I hope this helps clear up any further questions that you may have had about this subject.
Good Luck and Happy computing! Grin

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In the article you referred to
Mar 3, 2012 9:18PM PST

I found

"On the other hand, according to the 2006 NIST Special Publication 800-88 (p. 7): "Studies have shown that most of today's media can be effectively cleared by one overwrite" and "for ATA disk drives manufactured after 2001 (over 15 GB) the terms clearing and purging have converged."[1] An analysis by Wright et al. of recovery techniques, including magnetic force microscopy, also concludes that a single wipe is all that is required for modern drives. They point out that the long time required for multiple wipes "has created a situation where many organisations ignore the issue all together - resulting in data leaks and loss. "[5]

Pretty reassuring.

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2006 NIST Special Publication
Mar 4, 2012 6:26AM PST

Since 2006 don't you think that there have been strides made in Recovery Software? That paragraph all by itself could possibly be somewhat misleading within the current and probably future time frames, don't you think? Would one really want to take any sort of chances at all with their personal and sensitive data? Confused

You can likely test this for yourself. If you have a file recovery software use that to "undelete" a test file after you've overwritten it with a file shredding tool if you have one of those. That is, after you've recovered a test file that was simply deleted through the Operating System Trash Can.

If you don't have either one of those types of programs and are running Windows you can get Recuva and File Shredder. Both are free. Both are easy to use and fairly good at what they do for the average user. File Shredder has several different algorithms in it's settings that it can use to shred a file. Try it with each one to see just how hard it is for Recuva to find and retrieve the test file you've shredded. Cool


***Disclaimer:
While I've used both of these programs during the past several years for their intended purposes with no problems at all, I have not tried this test for myself....YET! But I do think that the results would be rather interesting in deed! Wink

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um, really?
Mar 4, 2012 6:29AM PST

btljooz, I suggest you go back and read your own link. It supports what I said100%.

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Yes, porsche10x...
Mar 4, 2012 10:35AM PST

That article does support your statements. It does not directly address most of your questions, which I attempted to do by giving a fictional scenario. All it takes is something like that go transpire and sensitive data from a previous owner of a hard drive could easily have their data discovered along with that of the perpetrator who managed to get that drive looked at to begin with.

The one thing I left out is what type of resources would they need, which the article does address (to a point) in a roundabout way through some of it's links concerning Data Recovery and Computer Forensics. In turn more specific info can be found concerning the Digital forensic process. Those articles support the statements made by both of us.

One caveat here; I'm merely using Wikipedia as a quick reference guide. With the information that can be gleaned from there one can reasonably do additional research on their own to find out more in-depth info should they be so inclined. Wink

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Come on, guys!
Mar 4, 2012 10:44AM PST

You are looking at the hard drive as a multi-layer device where, if you over-write a section, there is an underlying layer that some how retains info.

It isn't! and doesn't. A hard drive is a single layer device that is a metal disk (non-magnetic) coated with a substance similar to iron rust. Each bit of a hard drive holds either an 'on' state or an 'off' state. Change that state from on to off or off to on and that's it. No 'memory' of a previous state. If you use the Windows File delete (trash can) all that happens is the file space is marked available for reuse. If it isn't reused, the data is available and if it is only partially reused, the balance of the unreused space can be recovered.

File shredding won't do the trick either. The only way is to overwrite the file space 100% with something else, which is what DBAN does. It starts by writing a bit setting of 'on' in every bit space on the drive, then going back and writing a bit setting of 'off' in every bit space. Repeat that 7 times, ending with bit 'off' and you have an absolutely clean drive. There will be no recovery of data on the drive, at all.

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well, not really.
Apr 15, 2012 8:49AM PDT

Actually, that's not exactly true. utlimately, a hard drive is an analog medium. A region in magnetic material is polarized in the presence of a magnetic field. While it can be changed, it's not like pegs in a board. Resetting a bit does leave residual polarization in the surrounding area. Even after repeated rewrites, there's a shadowy "history" of what's been written. Of course, as a practical matter, actually figuring out how to read this information would mean destroying the drive, spending like a gazillion dollars on equipment, and maybe dedicating a physicist's life's work to the job. With modern drives, and an effective rewrite scheme (like the Gutmann method), it is unlikely that anyone inrecent history has ever recovered a file from this, including the NSA, etc. At the very least, normal law enforcement and government agencies do not have the resources to even attempt this, and, as far as I can tell, there are no documented examples of success for such data recovery. Thus, my earlier comments.

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Strange
Apr 15, 2012 2:26PM PDT

Talk about conspiracy theory... I have never heard of anyone recovering even a bit of data from a drive that has had the full bore DOD wipe run on it. With 7 write cycles of writing all '1's and then all '0's, every micron on the magnetic surface is obliterated to clean and clear media. I have wiped, then disassembled a drive recently (a fairly new model of Seagate) and then 'painted it with a magnetic 'disclosure' fluid. The fluid has ferrite material in it the shows any existing domains or marks on the platter surface. Even under a microscope there was nothing showing. Took me a day or two to do that test, but I'm convinced.

As far as police/law enforcement is concerned, there have been a lot of cases tried on 'evidence' collected by them that was refuted as being false after being presented in court. I'm surprised the courts haven't contracted with reputable firms to do the forensics instead of letting cops (untrained and inexperienced) do the testing. Computer Forensics is a costly and time consuming business and is best left to the pros.