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From the Mirror, a Thatcherite working class British paper

by Ziks511 / October 8, 2005 7:03 PM PDT

8 October 2005
America's sense of itself - its pride in its power - has been profoundly damaged.
By Dermot Purgavie, Veteran US Correspondent

"With TV providing a ceaseless backdrop of the country's failings - a crippled and tone-deaf president, a negligent government, corruption, military atrocities, soaring debt, racial conflict, poverty, bloated bodies in floodwater, people dying on camera for want of food, water and medicine - it seemed things were falling apart in the land where happiness is promoted in the constitution.

"Disillusioning news was everywhere. In the flight from Hurricane Rita, evacuees fought knife fights over cans of petrol. In storm-hit Louisiana there were long queues at gun stores as people armed themselves against looters.

"AMERICA, which has the world's costliest health care, had, it turned out, higher infant mortality rates than the broke and despised Cuba.

"Tom De Lay, Republican enforcer in the House of Representatives, was indicted for conspiracy and money laundering. The leader of the Republicans in the Senate was under investigation for his stock dealings. And Osama bin Laden was still on the loose.

"Americans are the planet's biggest flag wavers. They are reared on the conceit that theirs is the world's best and most enviable country, born only the day before yesterday but a model society with freedom, opportunity and prosperity not found, they think, in older cultures.

"They rejoice that "We are No.1", and in many ways they are.

"But events have revealed a creeping mildew of pain and privation, graft and injustice and much incompetence lurking beneath the glow of star-spangled superiority."


"Americans have been angered by a reports that US troops have routinely tortured Iraqi prisoners. Some 230 low-rankers have been convicted - but not one general or Pentagon overseer. (or civilian security consultant --Rob) Disgruntled young officers are leaving in increasing numbers."

"The US, we learn, is 43rd in the world infant mortality rankings. A baby born in Beijing has nearly three times the chance of reaching its first birthday than a baby born in Washington...On the other side of the tracks, 18 corporate executives have so far been jailed for cooking the books and looting billions. The prosecution of Mr Bush's pals at Enron - the showcase trial of the greed-is-good culture - will be soon."

And this guy is writing from inside the United States. How come you let him get away with it?


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(NT) (NT) Jonah, how do you do that without the URL?
by geona / October 9, 2005 9:44 PM PDT
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like this
by jonah jones / October 9, 2005 10:48 PM PDT
like this

replace the *with[ and #with] *url=htp://www.anamcararetreat.com/fishwinners.html#like this*/url#
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(NT) (NT) Thanks Jonah and Evie. Sly of you, Jonah :)
by geona / October 10, 2005 4:31 AM PDT
In reply to: like this
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If I may.
by JP Bill / October 9, 2005 11:52 PM PDT
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Those HTML tags don't work anymore.
by Evie / October 9, 2005 11:56 PM PDT
In reply to: If I may.

Minor formatting works {b}{/b} for bold, {i}{/i} for italics, {u}{/u} for underscores, and {url=}{/url} for links. Substituting the square brackets for the {}'s.

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(NT) (NT) OK, Sorry.
by JP Bill / October 10, 2005 12:49 AM PDT
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Of course you may...BUT WHY?
by Edward ODaniel / October 11, 2005 3:39 AM PDT
In reply to: If I may.
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Since you're "in the mood"
by JP Bill / October 11, 2005 4:42 AM PDT
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by JP Bill / October 11, 2005 4:56 AM PDT
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Because we have free speech here?
by EdH / October 8, 2005 9:11 PM PDT

And because we hear stupid nonsense like this all the time?

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By the way, this is the same paper...
by EdH / October 8, 2005 10:01 PM PDT

that ran that "How can 59 million Americans be so stupid?" headline. The Mirror is consistently anti-AMerican despite Rob's characterization.

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I said it was Thatcherite and working class and it is.
by Ziks511 / October 10, 2005 5:16 PM PDT

Its been strongly supportive of the Iraq invasion. Personally, I don't think being critical of the US, or of its President or other officials qualifies as Anti-American, but I'm notoriously Liberal. When such an attitude pervades a culture, as it does in France for instance, then it's Anti-American. When it's just the view of a segment of the "Chattering Classes", as they call commentators and journalists in Britain, then it's just an opinion. That's also why Canada can never be thought of as Anti-American. I would say that most Canadians feel more akin to Americans than anyone else. From there (France) you have to go to North Africa and the Middle East for Anti-Americanism. Basically all of Europe qualifies as pro-American but cautiously so, rather than in the Anti camp.

JMO but based on contact with the people in question.


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Fair rebuttal, as it?s true that English "rags"
by geona / October 10, 2005 9:13 PM PDT

are so sensationalist and talk-showy that they?re likely to go any which way in order to sell at the news stands, and they often evidence strong patriotism to the point of knocking other countries gratuitously.
On European anti-Americanism, I think it?s complex. It?s true that even their most leftward prime ministers will swear over and above particular issues that the US is an ally, and even those who advocate strong social policies never question capitalism (and the measures that fuel it) as the basic economic model, often looking to the States for examples. In fact, liberal critics of the EU?s new constitution say it is more of an economic treaty than anything else. However, among the populace, there is much bigotry, in the sense that their criticisms are often spiked with a hate that is more proper of envy or resentment. In Franco?s Spain, the textbooks were specifically rewritten to show the US as the prime culprit in the fall of their empire (even though we tolerated Franco?s dictatorship, and made no mention of democracy on that occasion, for which he should have been more thankful!). So you have a lot of (usually older) right-wingers here who are deeply anti-American, a stance their own espa

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Your comments.....
by Angeline Booher / October 11, 2005 4:21 AM PDT

.... coincide with what I hear from cousins who live across the pond, and sometimes from their major newspapers, especially in the "Letters to the Editor".

I recall during a visit in the early 1980s the impression of some people we met was that we lived as they did on the TV show, "Dallas". Others thought we "had so much money" because our utility bills were lower than theirs. Happy But when we sat down and compared in the exchange rate at the time, this was not so. They also saw us as "sue happy".

What I found interesting was their willingness (devoid of resentment) to be heavily taxed in relation to the dole. There seemed to be an ingrained true belief that they were their brother's keeper. "Why shouldn't we help them?"

Once, while playing pool with my husband, an onlooker commented, "You Americans don't like to lose, do you?"

All we can do while a visitor in another country is be a good representative of the USA.

BTW, Spain produces wonderful fruits!

Speakeasy Moderator
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According to Demopedia...
by EdH / October 10, 2005 9:27 PM PDT
(opposing the Iraq invasion, it printed photos showing abuse of Iraqis by British soldiers, which were shown to be fake).

Does that sound like they supported the Iraq invasion? Sorry, I believe them, not you. Everything we've seen from the Mirror indicates they are leftist.

The piece was clearly anti-American, not to mention hysteroical amnd totall;y inaccurate. Garbage, nothing more.
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You've got to understand that, in Rob's world, there is no
by Kiddpeat / October 11, 2005 3:49 AM PDT

left wing in America. He has a somewhat different view of what left wing is. Kind of reminds me of a Clintonian 'IS'.

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a pity that Dermot Purgavie didn't advise the Brits
by jonah jones / October 8, 2005 9:24 PM PDT

to check their own backyard first!!

a quick tour of SKY and the BBC would be enough to delusion anybody!


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Yellow hysterical journalism brought to its peak
by gearup / October 8, 2005 9:51 PM PDT

and there are those who will believe this kind of crap no matter if it comes from the left or the right!

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Sorry, Rob. The Mirror is considered left wing.
by EdH / October 8, 2005 10:15 PM PDT

The Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk) moderate left tabloid. Much celebrity gossip in amongst its news, but still manages to be the occasional UK home for investigative international journalist John Pilger. Like all British tabloids, its fact checking can leave a lot to be desired (opposing the Iraq invasion, it printed photos showing abuse of Iraqis by British soldiers, which were shown to be fake).

I guess you don't really know your Britosh press as well as you'd like us to think. Come to think of it, you made the same mistake once before if I recollect correctly.
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It?s true that there?s a lot of
by geona / October 9, 2005 10:35 AM PDT

blanket-statement anti-Americanism in Europe and, just like in the States, people degrade their own potentially valid criticisms by instilling them with large doses of bigotry.

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The Mirror is populist, crude and rather wayward in it's
by Ziks511 / October 10, 2005 5:29 PM PDT

attitudes. It was staunchly Thatcherite in her day though critical at times. It strongly supported her suppression of the Miners Strike which says Right-Wing to me but that is neither here nor there. To characterize it as in the same category as The Guardian and the Independent does more than a little violence to the concept of "left-wing". I think it's MOR or slightly right of center, but as with all tabloids in Britain it panders to its audience and there is a strong streak of sensationalism viz. their publishing faked pictures from Iraq.

Perhaps I'm guilty of anti-Tabloid prejudice.


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Sorry, don't believe you
by EdH / October 10, 2005 8:41 PM PDT

Your credibility is shot and your judgebment is very suspect. Anyway if it's so bad, why quote it at all?

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I'm sure the gullible actually believe this drivel. I also
by Kiddpeat / October 9, 2005 4:28 PM PDT

see that you seem to be in that group Rob.

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About the Mirror ...
by Evie / October 9, 2005 10:54 PM PDT

... you've already been set straight.

About the infant mortality issue, you have also been previously set straight, but it doesn't stop you from posting editorials that repeat that attempt to distort the truth.

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Rob's writing history.
by Kiddpeat / October 10, 2005 3:16 AM PDT
In reply to: About the Mirror ...

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