it is a demonstration of support. The citations should be thrown out.
The scenarios you listed are very different.
Dan
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General discussion
Free speech, or illegal noise?
(Chronicle login: semods4@yahoo.com; pw = speakeasy)
>>An Oakland woman alleges Berkeley police violated her First Amendment rights when an officer ticketed her last year for honking in support of a labor union's picketing outside the Claremont Resort and Spa to protest rising health care costs and other issues.
Carol Harris, 51, is appealing her $143 "unreasonable use of horn" citation to Berkeley's Police Review Commission.
Harris was among nearly 40 motorists who received tickets beginning shortly before midnight on Aug. 27, accused of violating a California Vehicle Code section prohibiting the use of horns except "when reasonably necessary to insure safe operation" of vehicles or as part of a theft-prevention system.<<
So much for "Honk if you love Jesus!" (To say nothing of when picking up a car-pooler in the rain, or running late). If this were at night, I could see it -- but this was in broad daylight!
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
Discussion is locked
31 - 60 of 79 Posts
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... that if it was a showing of support for a cause you didn't agree with in your neighborhood, you would feel otherwise. Doubtful you will admit that, but we can always keep hope alive for some consistency.
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... have fun with your laser toys -- drive by and beam them in the windows to show support 
Harmless right? If a car horn is "speech", this would be by extension ... wink or evil eye 
Evie 
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lived in this country for so long and do not understand the difference between harassment and speech.
Dan
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... perhaps the people in the neighborhood felt just a little bit harrassed by the rude honking while most were trying to sleep. You can't take out a bullhorn and "speak" in the middle of the night Dan, even in the "City that never sleeps".
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mean that free speech is curtailed. It is apparent that too few people have an appreciation and understanding for the concept.
That's too bad.
Dan
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... don't seem to have an appreciation for the rights of the many to a good night's sleep. The First Amendment protects one from persecution by the government for expressing one's political views/religion/etc. It doesn't guarantee one a podium, or let one speak whereever and whenever they desire. Clearly this was a major nuisance to a great many in the neighborhood.
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a nuisance, Evie, that does not make them less protected.
I'm not sure where you guys are coming up with the right to a good night's sleep. Is there case law to support your position?
Dan
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... makes any further discussion futile.
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guarantees the right to a good night's sleep?
You're just too funny, Evie.
Dan
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but you won't grasp the fact until you do your research previously hinted at.
Yell FIRE in a crowded theater and discover for yourself that all speech is not free as the courts have long agreed to various limitations.
You Dan are not funny nor are your posts witty as you seem to think.
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Matter of simple fact the answer to your question is YES!
All you need do is a tiny bit of research on "Noise Polution" laws and zoning variances and you will discover a plethora of case law regarding the "right to a good night's sleep".
Now aren't you glad you asked?
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How about Memphis, Tennessee. One of the things that their anti-noise ordinance says is that car horns can be used only for safety purposes. This was the situation in the 1960's, and it held.
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somone of sleep is better?
Sleep deprivation does contribute to on the job accidents, automobile accidents, loss of control and fights, and the list goes on forever.
Don't forget the right to private property and respect of the owners rights on that property was very important to those that felt harassed by the English governors and miltia to the point they started a civil war to become a new nation.
A right to peace and quiet may not be literally in the constitution, but it certainly falls under the Declaration of Independance proclamations. Something about the common good, pursuit of happiness, life&liberty.
Sorry, free speech does not give anyone the right to hassale me IN MY HOME, even from outside my home. There is such a crime, misdomeaner it may be, as disturbing the peace.
Even if you don't care about someone campaigning for whatever outside your house, that doesn't give you the right to say I shouldn't mind. What is the claim about conservatives are always trying to dictate how everyone lives, and are the only ones doing it? Aruing disturbing people in their homes is freedom of speech is proof IMO that everyone does it for their pet beliefs.
Interferring with rest and peace, especially in my home, is harmful to my health. Sort of like the enironmental poisons so many preach about in fact.
JMO
Roger
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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we can get a deminstration going on at all 24/7 with honking horns remember now you and your neighbors cant sleep, or your children sleep and when somebody calls the cops they can say but dan says its ok its our "freedom" of speach to disturb the peace.
thats why there ordenences for noise .
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of your way with no other reason but to disturb me then it is not protected speech. See the difference?
Dan
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protected speech, Evie.
And you say I have problems understanding free speech. That's rich!
Dan
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for the use of horns as free speach, as its our right and evan though its 3 am and your neighbors want to sleep, you said its ok.
now do you see what is free speach and being a law breaker.
honk if you hear me 
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IN my house, you do not have the right to stay and preach on anything you like once I ask you to leave. I can have the cops forcefully remove you if you refuse to go.
If you stand on my lawn and I tell you to leave, I can have you removed.
Standing on the street, I may not be able to have you removed, but I have every right to expect your "speech" not intrude into my living room.
Talk all you want, at a reasonable voice on the sidewalk, hand out bills, wave a sign.
DON'T block my access or exit from my property onto a public thoroughfare, DON'T extend you noise into my home or even my vehicle.
Do you claim it's ok to stand on the sidewalk directly in front of your house and to yell asking you to support candidates in the next election at midnight? or for that matter at any time at all?
As the cliche goes, your freedom to swing your arms stops before your hand hits my nose.
Very little difference if they're disturbing INSIDE my residence if it's politcal rally, anti-abortion rally, anti-death penality march, or a bunch of good ole boys hooping and hollering. Or some inconsiderate, rude, no manner jerk blowing a horn when there's no good LEGAL (warning) reason for it.
JMO
Roger
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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Anyone with even a passing familiarity with my position on free speech would have correctly guess the other way.
Dan
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... with a passing familiarity with your hypocrisy on many issues, would have guessed with me. Free speech doesn't give people the right to infringe on the rights of others to enjoy their property or even to get a full night's sleep! The article states INORDINATE amount of complaints and she was among nearly FORTY such noisy motorists disrupting the peace. This woman seems to have no basic manners. If she feels so compelled to show her support, she can get out of her car, pick up a sign and peaceably meet and demonstrate.
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I suppose the forum members will wait forever and a day for you to provide any substatiation for your statements and the defense of your character?
Dan
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