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Ford closing 14 plants

and tossing 25-30,000 plant jobs and 4000 other jobs...thank you NAFTA and thank you UNIONS.

Don't blame Bush for this one.........

http://www.cnn.com/

TONI

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NAFTA ...

In reply to: Ford closing 14 plants

... wouldn't be the disaster it has become IF American companies could compete in foreign markets. I'm not versed in all the reasons that doesn't seem to be happening (and no doubt SOME of it is foreign markets erecting obstacles to free market competition), but a major factor is the labor costs for the American automakers. No doubt environmental regulations play a part, but if it were a large one, then the foreign car companies couldn't compete here by building cars here. It is mostly the unions with the labor costs, but there's got to be something else involved.

Comparable American cars tend to sell for less than foreign cars to begin with, but not enough less to compensate for the difference in depreciation in value. That depreciation is due to quality. Why not spend the money to put out a higher quality product? Sure you would have to charge more, but why can't an American built American brand car compete with an Americna built Foreign brand? THAT is a problem of entrenched ideology -- the feeling that the big three would always be just that. The bailout of Chrysler only set the stage for subsidizing failing business models. One wonders how different things might be if Chrysler had been let to go bankrupt all those years ago.

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NAFTA

In reply to: NAFTA ...

Edward O'D wants the guys that signed NAFTA in Canada (Conservatives, a friend as he calls them) to get back in power in the election today.

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What was signed can be unsigned

In reply to: NAFTA

as soon as intelligence comes back into the picture regarding what some thought of as 'free trade' but was actually a slippery slope of economic destruction for both Canada and the USA.

TONI

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Response

In reply to: What was signed can be unsigned

Be careful opening up NAFTA agreements because a lot of people up here would like to change oil and gas agreements that the US now has a advantage over Canada.

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Our economy

In reply to: Response

was much better for a very long period of time before 1973 when screw mfr's were allowed to take their business overseas and NAFTA followed much later, and financial relationships between Canada and the USA were sound....NAFTA was the bullet in our own foot.

I would rather re-negoiate pricing/trading between our countries again for gas, oil, lumber than have to kiss the world's behind over every product under the sun.

TONI

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Response

In reply to: Our economy

I would rather see Canada develop markets with other countries of the world and be less dependent on the US.

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(NT) (NT) good luck

In reply to: Response

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NO

In reply to: (NT) good luck

Good plan

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Hmm......

In reply to: NAFTA ...

".....why can't an American built American brand car compete with an Americna built Foreign brand?"

Excellent question Evie. Toyota and Nissan are good examples

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Who can afford US prices? Foregin workers make little $

In reply to: NAFTA ...

Why jump on Chysler for its problems "way back when". Of the big three is the healthest and get got a profit big time last year. It also "PAID BACK" its loan before its due time amny years ago.

The reason foregin autos are so popular when they were introduced was they were CHEAP. Many of the early models rusted like anything else. They had quality issues as well. However, they learned from their mistakes. Also, they began to understand the American auto market and offered what many didn't at the time, small and added milage. It took awhile for the big three to catch on but they did. Unfortunately their offering was just that offering on little substance. Later, they greatly improved but it was too late. Loyality to foreign autos creep-in because most of those buyers were young. Hey, that's how you hook buyers, give them what they want and be cheap about it. If the US auto makers were to offer a cheap auto that passed safety muster they could easily regain the market share. they are already doing that, but these are A-to-B people movers not gaint SUVs, look for them from Ford and GM. As for Nafta is was suspose to help reduce costs, it does but its a drop in the bucket. Its health costs that seem to be the hidden villian in all of this. Heck, when you can get rid of 1000's of workers and blame it on something else, you know what, you save on health benefits and ythe whole 9 yards. Don't blame unions for wanting thier workers to have basic cost&living wages to include health benefitsd just like everyone else worker's out there, union or not.

What the big three has got to do is put thier heads together or not and really offer what the US market wants and supply it at a reasonable cost. Drop dead models, dump big V-8 and get the new engines they need w/o borrowing from Japan or Korea, shhhh!t. Further, the workers willwork better if you hire workers and don't "overtime" them to death. Some workers like it too much and can't wean off of 50-60 hr. weeks for that extra $$$. Also, weed out deadbeat workers and those on drugs&alcohol w/o intervention always in the way. 1 chance should be it, too many new workers out there to allow that to go on. -----Willy

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loseing 2 here in atlanta

In reply to: Ford closing 14 plants

and thank you unions sucked gm and ford dry.

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It was an end game for the unions. Try to suck the money

In reply to: loseing 2 here in atlanta

out of the companies before the go under. The heck with newer and younger workers.

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typical union thieves

In reply to: It was an end game for the unions. Try to suck the money

all Unions suck your blood

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They should build better cars.

In reply to: Ford closing 14 plants

That would be the best course of action.

Dan

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and you know this how?

In reply to: They should build better cars.

i dont remember you saying your an auto engineer

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Well Ralph Waldo Emerson said

In reply to: and you know this how?

"Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door."

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Unfortunately

In reply to: Well Ralph Waldo Emerson said

NAFTA and its predecessors allowed the mousetrap companies to leave, and the products being used now in our own manufacturing are nothing but garbage.

TONI

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But Toni ...

In reply to: Unfortunately

... NAFTA doesn't answer the question of why American brand autos built in America CANNOT compete with Foreign brand autos built in America!

My Honda was made here. American workers, in American plants, operating under American laws & regulations. So why is it so much better built and retains its value so much better than an American equivalent? I think that new it cost about 10% more than an equivalent GM product. It's now worth about twice what that GM would be worth.

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When I was in school

In reply to: Well Ralph Waldo Emerson said

I read that a better mousetrap didnt always cut it, for one reason or another. It had to be one that people wanted to buy. I guess with cars, one of the main reasons is style. But another problem might have been that they were banking too much on the SUVs and trucks for their income, or something along those lines.

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Planned obsolescence (still with us, if muted)

In reply to: They should build better cars.

and too much attention to saving pennies per unit, at the expense of quality, is the root of the problem. Foreign manufacturers don't have that mind-set; the American B-school-trained bean-counters unfortunately do, and today's announcement shows the result.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Sad, even GM announced in November

In reply to: Ford closing 14 plants

about closing plants & laying off worker.

I currently own a Ford pickup and Ford auto. The pickup is past due for replacemen and I have been waiting for the new Toyota Tundra pickup factory being built in San Antonio to start producing off the line in November, then checking comparative pricing. In the back of my mind..thinking Toyota will give a good discount to the locals as 'good will' jesture to kick off the pickup war in Texas.

Ford has approximately 87,000 hourly workers and 35,000 salaried workers in North America. They make a fine strong F-150 pickup starting with the revamped 2005 model. The Toyota plant, like the Nissan plant in Tennessee, is non union. Since all the jobs in our local Toyota plant are not filled, I would assume some of the skilled workers from Ford/GM would be logical to hire, after screening (keeping the Union influence in mind).

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thats over 2000/plant on average

In reply to: Ford closing 14 plants

I didnt realize there were that many working at a plant.

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Not suprising, GM is in the mix

In reply to: Ford closing 14 plants

They are losing their business to the Japanese/European car makers, but mostly Japanese. With Honda and Toyota you get saftey, quality, and reliabity all under one frame of a car.

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