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The more that comes out ...
... the more the Dems seem to want Rove's head. However, everything coming out gets further and further away from the initial charge -- that Rove outed Plame to inflict political damage on Wilson. His discussions with Cooper seem to indicate that if anything he was trying to get the press to exercise caution in further broadcasting that which was pretty common knowledge.
Ahh, but Wilson apparently has no shame or thinks the public is too stupid to see past his crap.
(NT) Saw Wilson on TV last night, what a LIAR !!
I saw him in an interview suggesting that Rove should
resign as a matter of honesty and integrity.
My initial question was "What motive would Rove have
because he is a small, petty, rotten SOB
(according to the liberals) just to get back at the extremely noble and world renown expert on WMD's, Joseph Wilson, for telling the horrible truth that Bush lied to get Halliburton contracts in the Mid-East.
Or maybe because its a very clever plan
to trick the liberals into blaming him and then having to eat crow?
Rove..........Pants on fire
Rove testified that Novak told him he planned to report in a weekend column that Plame had worked for the CIA, and the circumstances on how her husband traveled to Africa to check bogus claims that Iraq was trying to buy nuclear materials in Niger, according to the source.
Rove told the grand jury that by the time Novak had called him, he believes he had similar information about Wilson's wife from another member of the news media but he could not recall which reporter had told him about it first, the person said.
Is it possible that Rove told Knovak about Plame, and then Rove repeats Knovak statement that "he planned to report the story in the weekend column"
This would make Rove's statement appear to say Knovak told him about Plame, but he is not actually coming flat out and saying Knovak told him.
Not telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
(NT) Sounds like a Clinton style theory
Even the NYT has shown...
a better understanding of what was said to who and by whom than you are doing.
On Oct. 1, 2003, Mr. Novak wrote another column in which he described calling two officials who were his sources for the earlier column. The first source, whose identity has not been revealed, provided the outlines of the story and was described by Mr. Novak as "no partisan gunslinger." Mr. Novak wrote that when he called a second official for confirmation, the source said, "Oh, you know about it."
That second source was Mr. Rove, the person briefed on the matter said. Mr. Rove's account to investigators about what he told Mr. Novak was similar in its message although the White House adviser's recollection of the exact words was slightly different. Asked by investigators how he knew enough to leave Mr. Novak with the impression that his information was accurate, Mr. Rove said he had heard parts of the story from other journalists but had not heard Ms. Wilson's name.
Wilson did indeed LIE repeatedly (and that doesn't even take into account how he actually "investigated" the yellow cake request which in and of itself was not any type of honest investigation as later reports have aptly demonstrated!).
Rove still has not been demonstrated to have lied at any point about Plame nor his connection and Novak and Cooper have both indicated the same.
(NT) Why is this Novak fellow still on TV...
Why shouldn't he be?
If he wasn't cooperating with the investigation, we would know about it already. From everything that has come out about this, it is highly unlikely that ANYBODY committed a crime in "outing" Plame. The only crimes now would be secondary things like lying to the grand jury, or in the case of Judy Miller of contempt.
Even the media -- some 30+ news organizations --in their brief filed in support of Miller and Cooper, make the claim that NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED!
(NT) Because people are interested in what he says.
Not telling the truth, the whole truth,...
...no, in fact, Joe Wilson isn't doing any such thing - in fact, by now, I doubt he'd be able to spell "truth" if you spotted him the t, the r, the second t, the h, and the money to buy a vowel!
Try this from an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer yesterday: (a llittle over halfway down the page.)
BLITZER: But the other argument that's been made against you is that you've sought to capitalize on this extravaganza, having that photo shoot with your wife, who was a clandestine officer of the CIA, and that you've tried to enrich yourself writing this book and all of that.
What do you make of those accusations, which are serious accusations, as you know, that have been leveled against you?
WILSON: My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.
BLITZER: But she hadn't been a clandestine officer for some time before that?
WILSON: That's not anything that I can talk about. And, indeed, I'll go back to what I said earlier, the CIA believed that a possible crime had been committed, and that's why they referred it to the Justice Department.
If Valerie Plame wasn't a clandestine CIA officer as of the time that Bob Novak wrote the story - which Joe Wilson just admitted on CNN - then there was NO violation of Federal law, just another frantically half-baked attempt by the Democrats to discredit President Bush.
Wolf Blitzer did his best to gloss over this, but the fact remains that Joe Wilson just accurately called himself a liar!
You deduce all that from alleged grand jury testimony?
Since grand jury proceedings are secret, we don't really know what Rove's testimony was. Now, you want build speculation on top of rumors, and draw moral conclusions from that? Please apply your morality to Canadian society where it has a legitimate voice.
I watched Rove answer 2 questions on TV and he didn't answer the questions ''directly''.
From this, I deduced that
he wasn't telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
The rest of my previous post was my version of the ''spin'' Rove could put on his story, so he wouldn't be telling a ''complete lie'' just telling part of the truth. And, as a result
he wasn't telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
The lies of Joe Wilson:
1. ''My wife had nothing to do with my being sent to Niger:'' Not according to the Senate Intelligence Committee, Joe!
Former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, dispatched by the CIA in February 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq sought to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program with uranium from Africa, was specifically recommended for the mission by his wife, a CIA employee, contrary to what he has said publicly.
Wilson's assertions -- both about what he found in Niger and what the Bush administration did with the information -- were undermined yesterday in a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report.
The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address.
Lie after lie:
The report states that a CIA official told the Senate committee that Plame ''offered up'' Wilson's name for the Niger trip, then on Feb. 12, 2002, sent a memo to a deputy chief in the CIA's Directorate of Operations saying her husband ''has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.'' The next day, the operations official cabled an overseas officer seeking concurrence with the idea of sending Wilson, the report said.
Wilson has asserted that his wife was not involved in the decision to send him to Niger.
''Valerie had nothing to do with the matter,'' Wilson wrote in a memoir published this year. ''She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip.''
Wilson stood by his assertion in an interview yesterday, saying Plame was not the person who made the decision to send him. Of her memo, he said: ''I don't see it as a recommendation to send me.''
Either Mr. Wilson's delusional or he perjured himself before a committee of Congress!
It gets better; the Brits' ''Butler Report'' flatly contradicts Joe Wilson on the issue of Saddam's seeking uranium in Niger:
After nearly a six-month investigation, a special panel reported to the British Parliament July 14 that British intelligence had indeed concluded back in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was seeking to buy uranium. The review panel was headed by Lord Butler of Brockwell, who had been a cabinet secretary under five different Prime Ministers and who is currently master of University College, Oxford.
The Butler report said British intelligence had ''credible'' information -- from several sources -- that a 1999 visit by Iraqi officials to Niger was for the purpose of buying uranium:
Butler Report: It is accepted by all parties that Iraqi officials visited Niger in 1999. The British Government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium. Since uranium constitutes almost three-quarters of Niger?s exports, the intelligence was credible.
The Butler Report affirmed what the British government had said about the Niger uranium story back in 2003, and specifically endorsed what Bush said as well.
Butler Report: By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush?s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that ?The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa? was well-founded.
The only thing you need to keep in mind is this: Joe Wilson was on the John Kerry campaign staff in 2004 as an advisor, and was prominently mentioned as being in line for a senior Kerry Administration foreign policy or intelligence post.
IOW, the man's a total partisan hack who's completely willing to lie to anyone - the Senate, the media (who slavishly disseminated the lies), his wife, anyone who'll listen - in his abti-Bush vendetta. He has absolutely zero credibility and nothing he says should be taken seriously - unless you're one of the rabid Bush-hating moonbats who inhavit the Democrat Party, that is.
He was on TV last night
still claiming that the "16 words" was a lie and the proof is that the speechwriter quit because of it. What a partisan hack LIAR. Too bad the media and Dems weren't this concerned when the CLintons stole 700+ FBI files. That invasion of privacy wasn't because of John Ashcroft.
(NT) "Bush-hating moonbats", I like that one !
The best defense is a good offense. Now Rove is claiming
that the reporters told HIM that Wilson's wife was a CIA Agent.
Well, Its creative.
(NT) And the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!
Only creative if it's not true.
You'd lose that bet
Apparently the reporter named Mrs. Wilson and Rove replied with ''oh, so you know about that'' or something to that effect.
That kind of confirmation is considered legitmate source material. Sometimes reporters will bluff, claiming to have a piece of information just to see if their interviewee will confirm it.
Whether Rove committed a crime I don't know. At the very least he was extremely careless. At the worst he put someone in potential jeopardy for political purposes. The biggest question though is how the reporter got Mrs. Wilson's name in the first place. Rove apparently is not the original source of the leak but did confirm the information. So whether Bush is keeping his word or not when he said he'd fire whoever was responsible is still open to debate.
(NT) Rove didn't divulge classified information. QED.
ho hum... once again as a reminder..........
And he said [url=http://reviews.cnet.com/5238-7813-0.html?select=within+this+forum&rankBy=10001&categoryID=2&forceEmptySearch=true&lucene=true&q=bring+it+on&userID=Josh+k&forumID=0&dateRange=all&numResults=10]''bring it on!''
And he said [url=http://reviews.cnet.com/5238-7813-0.html?select=within+this+forum&rankBy=10001&categoryID=2&forceEmptySearch=true&lucene=true&q=mission+accomplished&userID=Josh+k&forumID=0&dateRange=all&numResults=10]''mission accomplished!''
And he said 16 words!
And Fox News played [url=http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-7813-0.html?forumID=50&threadID=65207&messageID=782450]PATRIOTIC MUSIC! Can you IMAGINE THAT??? How COULD they??? How COULD they?? PATRIOTIC MUSIC!!! Like...like real Americans!
And....and....that proves it!! You're all with me, right? RIGHT?? I know everybody is with me! RIGHT? Let's hear it! Come on now, you're all with me, RIGHT???
Remember this for all eternity: Dan Rather, Craig Livingston, Sandy Berger, people fleeing the country to escape being subject to subpoena after high-tech info was sold to the Chinese for political campaign contributions and for other reasons, pardons of terrorists for votes, pardons of all kinds of felons for votes, etc, etc, and etc... lol. Etc, etc, etc, and hang your head in eternal shame.
The louder yall squeal the more fun this is! LOL!
That little exchange says nothing about where Rove got the information.
Anyway, this is is much doo-doo about nothing.
How someone got her name?
Try political contributions as Victoria Wilson, and Plame being her REAL maiden name. It wouldn't be that hard. She had also been openly working a desk job at Langley for over five years.
If anyone was careless here, it was Joe Wilson himself. In his Op-Ed, HE identified himself as "that guy" who went to Niger. Considering that he KNEW his wife HAD recommended him for the job (lie as he may, that is a documented fact), that she worked on WMD for the CIA, it was he that endangered her if anyone by outing himself and drawing the attention his way.
The Bush Administration was being hammered by Wilson's BS. If you look what Cooper has said Rove said, he was actually cautioning Cooper not to pursue this too far, but also warning him that Joe Wilson was not credible. He ISN'T. This wasn't payback, it was trying to set the record straight.
We'll see how the investigation shakes out.
BTW -- you can't have it both ways
If Cooper was trying to set Rove up, he WASN'T careless in response. Rove didn't name Wilson's wife.
Novak's original column
Novak's followup column
...First, I did not receive a planned leak. Second, the CIA never warned me that the disclosure of Wilson's wife working at the agency would endanger her or anybody else. Third, it was not much of a secret...
...During a long conversation with a senior administration official, I asked why Wilson was assigned the mission to Niger. He said Wilson had been sent by the CIA's counterproliferation section at the suggestion of one of its employees, his wife. It was an offhand revelation from this official, who is no partisan gunslinger. When I called another official for confirmation, he said: ''Oh, you know about it.'' The published report that somebody in the White House failed to plant this story with six reporters and finally found me as a willing pawn is simply untrue....
Seems Rove was that ''confirmation''. Perhaps there is another Admin official that discussed Plame's involvement in Wilson's trip to Niger. Whether there was anything wrong with that is for the prosecutor to decide, but at least from Cooper's notes/emails, it seems the initial charge that the Administration purposefully retaliated against Wilson by outing his wife is WAY off the mark. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the other source was Colin Powell or someone at State.
Scroll down to Plame Wilson Valerie who appears to be using a joint email address.
So are the reporters!
Nothing "creative" about it excepting of course the "creativity" of those of an ultra liberal persuasion in attempting to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
This might offer you some food for thought to asuage your apparent starvation -
The White House felon So far Karl Rove appears guilty of telling reporters something he had heard, that Valerie Wilson, the wife of Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV, worked for the C.I.A. But because of several exceptions in the 1982 law forbidding disclosure of a covert operative's identity, virtually no one thinks anymore that he violated it. The law doesn't seem to apply to Ms. Wilson because she apparently hadn't been posted abroad during the five previous years.
The endangered spies Ms. Wilson was compared to James Bond in the early days of the scandal, but it turns out she had been working for years at C.I.A. headquarters, not exactly a deep-cover position. Since being outed, she's hardly been acting like a spy who's worried that her former contacts are in danger.
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