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For his American disciples who have never worn a uniform

by Ziks511 / April 12, 2006 9:44 PM PDT

(most of the Bush Administration) advice on war from Winston Churchill "I feel more deeply every year... what vile and wicked folly it all is." to his wife in 1909.

"In this solemn hour, it is a consolation to recall and dwell upon our repeated efforts for peace. All have been ill-starred, but all have been faithful and sincere. This is of the highest moral value -- and not only moral value, but practical value -- at the present time [Sept 3, 1939 after war between the Nazi's and Britain Poland and France had begun] This moral conviction alone affords that ever-fresh resilience which renews the strength and energy of people in long, doubtful and dark days. Outside, the storms of war may blow and the lands may be lashed with the fury of its gales, but in our hearts this Sunday morning there is peace. Our hands may be active but our consciences are at rest."

Rob

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Got a link?
by Evie / April 12, 2006 10:36 PM PDT

FYI, GWB WORE a uniform instead of running to Canada.

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(NT) (NT) and Alabama was never safer???
by Rick S / April 12, 2006 10:43 PM PDT
In reply to: Got a link?
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How petty.
by Evie / April 12, 2006 10:45 PM PDT

Your contribution was?

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they weren't drafting elementary school students
by Rick S / April 12, 2006 11:24 PM PDT
In reply to: How petty.

at the time

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(NT) (NT) More petty ... actually pathetic is a better word.
by Evie / April 13, 2006 10:47 AM PDT
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(NT) (NT) so's your sense of humor
by Rick S / April 14, 2006 12:43 AM PDT
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I don't find this funny
by Evie / April 14, 2006 12:54 AM PDT

The "jokes" about this are as old as they are disparaging to everyone that has ever served in the National Guard.

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There you go again...
by EdH / April 12, 2006 10:44 PM PDT
In reply to: Got a link?

relying on facts instead of BS.

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Never said Bush didn't wear a uniform, but he never saw
by Ziks511 / April 13, 2006 1:02 PM PDT
In reply to: Got a link?

active service as Churchill had done in the Sudan, and South Africa at the time of the first quote, or in the First World War at the time of the second. I was speaking of all the others except Rummy, who managed to wangle deferments denied to others in my opinion more deserving.

No link, just a galley proof review copy of David Reynolds newly published In Command of History: Churchill Fighting and Writing the Second World War, Random House, sent me by a friend. It's available now in bookstores I believe.

You think I'm good enough to make up Churchillian quotes? Thank you for the literary compliment, if not the possible slur on my honesty and character.

Rob

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I don't think anyone doubted the quote was real...
by EdH / April 13, 2006 1:09 PM PDT

easy enough to look up. Just your weird juxtoposition of it with the drivel you DID make up.

Bull, nothing more.

And you know it is because we discussed the deferment issue at length.

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That's either total ignorance or a lie Rob. I'm not sure
by Kiddpeat / April 13, 2006 1:17 PM PDT

which, but everyone who joined the Reserves and National Guard served on active duty. So saying he never saw active duty is as described above. Of course, Bush never served in Sudan or South Africa as Churchill had done. Perhaps if we had time travel available.

You show your honor by continuing to disparage those whom you have previously agreed had legitimate deferments.

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Other than bashing the President,
by duckman / April 13, 2006 7:03 AM PDT

does your post have a point?

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I think it was a hallucination
by EdH / April 13, 2006 7:33 AM PDT

or something. Certainly made little sense out here in the real world.

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Are you saying..............
by Glenda / April 13, 2006 9:00 AM PDT

Togo didn't understand that either??? Devil

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Duckman thinks that
by duckman / April 13, 2006 9:36 AM PDT

T0Go could never drink enough to understand that

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LOL! I couldn't either:)
by Glenda / April 13, 2006 10:02 AM PDT
In reply to: Duckman thinks that

Seems me & Togo are lightweights Devil

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Administration, is not just the President, and the fact that
by Ziks511 / April 13, 2006 1:09 PM PDT

Bush wore a uniform obviously lets him out of the criticism. It was directed at those famous Chicken Hawks who always had a reason they couldn't go, while better men went, fought, were wounded, died, or were forced into exile or prison.

Dennis Hastert, not a member of the Administration managed to get 6 deferments topping Cheney's 5.

The point obviously is that Churchill had experience of war and loathed it even in 1909 though he is always portrayed as bellicose and a war seeker. Bush and Company had no experience of war, and were intent on exploring the possibility of one from the second the hand over team said, "I just want to know about one thing tell me about Iraq." as noted in one of my previous recent posts, the quote was from Rumsfeld if memory serves.

Rob

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Other than bashing the administration,
by duckman / April 13, 2006 9:22 PM PDT

what's your point?

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Equating draft dodgers who broke the law...
by EdH / April 13, 2006 9:31 PM PDT

with men who fought and died, the while blasting people who didn't break the law is twisted, even for you. The warped lens through which you view things is frightening.

You've tried to sell this particular pant load numerous times now. No one is buying. Move on to your next bogus point.

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Can you see a difference
by JP Bill / April 13, 2006 10:11 PM PDT

Between these statements

Equating draft dodgers who broke the law...with men who fought and died,

and

It was directed at those famous Chicken Hawks who always had a reason they couldn't go, while better men went, fought, were wounded, died,

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You didn't quote it correctly...
by EdH / April 13, 2006 10:32 PM PDT

What Rob ACTUALLY said was:

while better men went, fought, were wounded, died, or were forced into exile or prison.

Which CLEARLY equates draft dodgers with men who fought and died. So why'd you misquote?

Not going to play your silly games today.

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Re word games
by JP Bill / April 13, 2006 10:51 PM PDT

equate

# To make equal or equivalent.
# To reduce to a standard or an average; equalize.
# To consider, treat, or depict as equal or equivalent:

NO mention in your post to Rob about his use of better

Which CLEARLY equates draft dodgers with men who fought and died. So why'd you misquote?

Perhaps for the same reason you did?

Does not equate. equal does not mean the same as better.

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I shoouldn't answer...
by EdH / April 13, 2006 11:58 PM PDT
In reply to: Re word games

because I am fairly sure you understand the fallacy of your argument, BUT...

Rob was equating draft dodgers with men who fought and died. He was saying they (men who fought and draft dodgers) were BETTER than Bush Administration folks whom he dislikes.

It was directed at those famous Chicken Hawks who always had a reason they couldn't go, while better men went, fought, were wounded, died, or were forced into exile or prison.


See? It's very clear. I did NOT misquote in any way.

No more silly games now. okay?

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IMO
by JP Bill / April 14, 2006 12:20 AM PDT
In reply to: I shoouldn't answer...

Rob is saying, if a person


went,
fought,
was wounded,
died,
was forced into exile
or
went to prison.


They are ''better'' than the Chicken hawks.

Whatever ''better'' is.

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Even if one takes your interpretation...
by Evie / April 14, 2006 1:03 AM PDT
In reply to: IMO

... then he is saying that people that broke the law are better than those who avoided combat through legal channels. A WARPED view to say the least. However, he lumped the dodgers in with those who fought and died, so there is a clear intent to equate them.

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Perhaps
by JP Bill / April 14, 2006 1:45 AM PDT

he thinks they are "equated" because they all "suffered consequences" because of their decisions.

The "chicken hawks" did not "suffer consequences"

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(NT) (NT) That's even more warped
by Evie / April 14, 2006 4:11 AM PDT
In reply to: Perhaps
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(NT) (NT) Warp factor 7..Mr Zulu..Engage!
by JP Bill / April 14, 2006 4:31 AM PDT
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I guess living in Canada could be considered a "consequence"
by EdH / April 15, 2006 12:47 AM PDT
In reply to: Perhaps

But I'm pretty sure he just wanted to bash Bush as usual.

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His sentence structure was such ...
by Evie / April 14, 2006 1:00 AM PDT
In reply to: Re word games

... that he feels draft dodgers were among the "better men". Sickening.

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