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Finally, a major question is answered

Apr 7, 2018 5:13PM PDT

Discussion is locked

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Oh, yeah. Anytime I see "alternet ..."
Apr 7, 2018 6:17PM PDT

I add it right to my collection of Unimpeachable Sources. They're usually good for slandering Right or Left. With the same post. Happy
My source for political news says there's nothing wrong with brains on either side. They're just under the influence. 2Tim 3:1-5.

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I notice
Apr 7, 2018 7:34PM PDT

You mentioned none of the points of the linked article. Dare I imagine you did not even scan the article before condemning it?

I thought it a measured piece - maybe not gospel, but certainly food for thought,IMO.

Rick

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OK, I will read it.
Apr 7, 2018 9:13PM PDT

But, as to the implied point of the article, it won't matter much to me. My view is Paul's, which has stood the test of time. Did _you_ read it? Happy

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terrible times
Apr 8, 2018 6:27PM PDT

Yes, I read it. And sometimes it seems we are already in such times. :^)

Rick

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That's the point. Except, we've always had
Apr 8, 2018 8:53PM PDT

bad times, somewhere. Or else, as I once thought, Paul was just a whiner. He wasn't, if you read his CV. 2Cor 11:21-29.
So, please re-read 2Tim, for two points. What sort of times, difficult or impossible? When did these things occur, according to Paul?

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Trump's base
Apr 8, 2018 5:06AM PDT

I doubt there is much of anything the guy could say or do that would have much of a negative impact on that base.

These people are believers for whatever reason appeals to them.

The article describes a member we have who lives in the past.

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Give it a rest, Bob....
Apr 8, 2018 5:28AM PDT

Your first statement also applies easily to BO or the LIAR'S supporters, doncha think? Trump has only been accused of what DEM's see as a 'crime'.....BUT COLLUSION ISN'T A CRIME when you come right down to it, so this whole Mueller 'investigation' was/is a SEARCH for a CRIME that never existed in the eyes of the LAW, only in the MINDS of DEMS. Do you believe that Rosenstein has a severe conflict of interest since he is potentially a WITNESS in the very investigation that HE appointed Mueller for? After all, IF Mueller sees that Trump should be charged with 'obstruction' for firing Comey, ROSENSTEIN is the ONLY WHO RECOMMENDED HE BE FIRED IN WRITING and would have to testify to that? And that 'obstruction; wasn't even brought up as a reason for the investigation from the start....ONLY 'collusion' was......and THAT isn't a crime at all.

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RE:BUT COLLUSION ISN'T A CRIME
Apr 8, 2018 5:49AM PDT
BUT COLLUSION ISN'T A CRIME when you come right down to it

TheRUMP will say there was no "COLLUSION", but HE won't say there was no "Aiding and Abetting"

When Collusion with Russia Becomes a Crime: Part III — “Aiding and Abetting”

It may be easier to appreciate the case to the contrary–that liability with the requisite intent could be imposed for these actions–by considering how the case could also be brought under ordinary “aiding and abetting” principles of the criminal law.

It is well understood that established “aiding and abetting” principles have wide, elastic application. The abettor is not required, of course, to have been “in on it” from the beginning. In Learned Hand’s classic formulation in United States v. Peoni, the law requires only “that he in some sort associate himself with the venture, that he participate in it as in something that he wishes to bring about, that he seek by his action to make it succeed.” The courts have defined in various terms this association, but what is required is “some affirmative conduct designed to aid in the success of a venture with knowledge that [the]actions would assist the perpetrator, the principal of the crime.” United States v. Cowart, 595 F.2d 1023, 1031(1979).
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OK...let's go with this and run with it
Apr 8, 2018 6:34AM PDT

The original 'charge' for the investigation brought about by Rosenstein was COLLUSION....NOT AIDING AND ABETTING. This investigation was literally a literal witch hunt by not naming any REAL crime but rather a HUNT FOR A CRIME....ANY CRIME....and there hasn't BEEN ANY FOUND. You can't just make up a crime and then hope that they exist because you don't like somebody, Bob. Trump hasn't 'admitted' to something that NOBODY has even suggested at this point. He HAS denied everything that they HAVE accused him of and they have FAILED to prove THEY are right and he's wrong.

Noticed that you completely skirted Rosenstein questions.....why? Don't you think HE'S committed a 'crime' at this point by NOT stating what 'crimes' Mueller was supposed to be looking for originally and then one week AFTER Mueller's team RAIDED Manafort's home in the middle of the night actually issued that expansion to include Manafort? Like I said...it's a witch hunt desperately SEARCHING for a crime....ANY CRIME....even if it DOESN'T target Trump anymore?

IF the Feds raided your house in the middle of the night....found your stash of meth....and then found out that the Feds never got that search warrant until a week LATER, would YOU be happy? Especially IF the original hunt was about your NEIGHBOR who they SUSPECTED was a drug dealer, had talked with you over the fence a few time, so now YOU become a new target since they hadn't found anything at your neighbor's house? BUT they continue to look into your neighbor's house in CASE they find another neighbor to target? All the while, the original neighbor isn't charged with anything but neighbors are all biting the dust when none were under investigation EVER. This is exactly what has happened with Trump and Carter Page....BOTH originally targeted....NEITHER have been charged with ANYTHING.....and all because of a loser DEM politician who couldn't win on her own merits so stuff had to be made up and lied about to bring down her rival.....even to the extent of HER "COLLUSION" with a foreign entity, but actually WAS a crime because SHE BOUGHT IT FROM A FOREIGN ENTITY against campaign LAWS.

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RE:He HAS denied everything
Apr 8, 2018 7:25AM PDT

Under oath?

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RE:The original 'charge' for the investigation brought about
Apr 8, 2018 7:38AM PDT
The original 'charge' for the investigation brought about by Rosenstein was COLLUSION

NOT stating what 'crimes' Mueller was supposed to be looking for originally


Charges of COLLUSION against Manaford?

WHY did TheRUMP rave about COLLUSION charges against Manaford?

Is TheRUMP affected by what happens to Manaford?

Because HE was 'Aiding and Abetting' Manaford?

Mueller authorized by DOJ to investigate alleged Manafort collusion with Russian government

The filing Monday night crystallizes the extent to which Rosenstein, who has come under fire by President Donald Trump and others, has backed the investigation's actions. (Rosenstein oversees Mueller's investigation following Attorney General Jeff Sessions' recusal.)

You and TheRUMP are on different pages when I comes to Rosentein?
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You have just made my point AGAIN
Apr 8, 2018 8:10AM PDT

The Rosenstein memo expanding the Mueller investigation to INCLUDE Manafort happened ONE WEEK AFTER the RAID Mueller instituted against Manafort's home in the middle of the night.....do you think that's a CYA memo for an UNLAWFUL act on Mueller's part? It wouldn't be the first time Mueller has been 'unethical' when it comes to trying to convict someone and been reversed in appellate court (AFTER TWO MEN DIED IN PRISON while waiting for that appeal for a case Mueller prosecuted).

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RE:You have just made my point AGAIN
Apr 8, 2018 8:31AM PDT

I just made YOUR point AGAIN?

The Rosenstein memo expanding the Mueller investigation to INCLUDE Manafort

Is it written somewhere that an investigation can't be expanded? YOU go where the evidence leads?

YOU call the cops for a noise complaint...they arrive and find a dead body (not making a peep)...End of investigation?..Nothing to see here...keep moving?

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You miss the point of this investigation
Apr 8, 2018 10:42AM PDT

completely. It had to do with TRUMP'S involvement with Russian 'collusion' into our ELECTIONS.......NOT something that happened with Manafort YEARS ago (Bob doesn't like bringing up the PAST and it all should be excused according to him), LONG BEFORE he was involved for two months with the Trump campaign, while Mueller was looking for AIDES to Trump 'colluding' with the Russians.

As I said before....Mueller raided Manafort's house to get his computer and financial records a WEEK before Rosenstein issued that memo ALLOWING him to expand that part of his investigation. You don't see that has unlawful entry and unlawful search and seizure by Mueller and a quick CYA by Rosenstein? I suspect that Manafort's attorneys are seeing it differently.

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RE:Mueller raided Manafort's house to get his computer
Apr 8, 2018 11:10AM PDT
Mueller raided Manafort's house to get his computer and financial records a WEEK before Rosenstein issued that memo ALLOWING him to expand that part of his investigation

that part of his investigation?

Rosenstein?...HE issued a memo that would investigate Manafort?.

..I thought HE was Trumps's hand puppet?

He's still there?...Is HE blackmailing TheRUMP?

YOU will now explain how YOU or anyone else knows EXACTLY what they were looking for/found on Manaforts computer....

PLEASE try and stay focused.....
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YOU are the one unfocused...
Apr 8, 2018 2:31PM PDT

Spy on Trump's campaign with bogus FISA warrant information with a 'counter-terrorism reason given', LIE to Congress during hearings by top CIA, FBI, and DOJ members, LEAK information during the campaign USING that same dossier, RAID Manafort's home WITHOUT authorization from Rosenstein to expand the TRUMP investigation ahead of time, GET that authorization A WEEK LATER (making everything collected unlawful search and seizure),,,,,

Do YOU see a pattern of abuse, coverup, and misconduct by the FBI, DOJ, and Mueller here, JP? This is only the tip of the iceberg since I've only mentioned a few things...........there is so much more.

Nope, I didn't think you'd see any of it....you are soooooo hopeful that your heart goes pitty pat every time Rachel comes on with 'breaking FAKE news'......

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RE:Do YOU see a pattern of abuse, coverup,
Apr 8, 2018 7:58PM PDT
Do YOU see a pattern of abuse, coverup, and misconduct by the FBI, DOJ, and Mueller here, JP?

How come those guys entered GUILTY pleas? What's up with that?

It's not that they didn't do anything wrong, you just don't like the way they got "caught" and the who did the police work?

you are soooooo hopeful that your heart goes pitty pat every time Rachel comes on with 'breaking FAKE news'......

Maddow? MSNBC? It costs extra to watch MSNBC up here, so that doesn't happen....
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IF you had done nothing illegal
Apr 9, 2018 3:45AM PDT

but were being accused of lying to the FBI because you answered the same question months later with a few different words AND your family/son was being threatened with the same 'crimes' as you, would YOU protect your family and plead guilty to something you didn't do, JP........after the FBI had totally wiped out your savings and you were forced to sell your house to keep paying for an attorney to keep fighting them?

NONE of them have pled guilty to any crimes to do with Trump or the Russian 'meddling' or any 'collusion' crap. But then, you already knew all of this....you're just continuing to grasp at straws.

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RE:forced to sell your house
Apr 9, 2018 4:47AM PDT

OR take out a loan on your house to silence Stormy Daniels?

Without the beneficiary of that silence knowing anything about the "deal"?

Some are sooo naive....

because you answered the same question months later with a few different words AND your family/son was being threatened with the same 'crimes' as you, would YOU protect your family

You answer the same question in a different way (lie) to protect your boss....and you plead guilty (lie once again?) to protect your family.....You aren't doing anything for your own personal gain....you're a VERY nice person.....doing everything for everyone else and suffering in silence....

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Are you saying that Trump took out a LOAN?
Apr 9, 2018 5:48AM PDT

Flynn didn't have to protect someone who has done nothing wrong (Trump)....he answered, according to the FBI itself truthfully (that's ON RECORD from the agents who questioned him)....it was MUELLER who called him and asked him the same questions, and made the decision that because he answered slightly differently but basically the SAME answer, he was charged by MUELLER with lying to the FBI the first time around. Gimme a break with the garbage speculation you put out, JP. The witch hunt continues with NOTHING to show for it but trash charges that will be overturned, including the pleas of guilty just as Mueller and Weinstein's prosecutions were overturned before for underhanded tactics and prosecutorial misconduct. Mueller is walking a thin line that will eventually bite his **** again.

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RE:slightly differently but basically the SAME answer,
Apr 9, 2018 6:44AM PDT

then HE should have not plead GUILTY , had a trial and got YOU on the Jury....

But HE didn't....I wouldn't plead GUILTY if I was INNOCENT....I don't think YOU would either...at least YOU would get your side of the story out there....

And you can't see anything wrong with YOUR scenario/garbage speculation?

RE:he was charged by MUELLER with lying to the FBI the first time around


The first time around?

Of course...he lied the first time, THEN told the truth AFTER he got caught in a lie...THEN he was charged...NOT after his FIRST appearance....AFTER his SECOND appearance when HE changed his story to match the evidence Mueller found...Then Mueller offered him a deal...fess up and give him more evidence and we'll see what happens...

Mueller asks questions of Flynn...Flynn responds.....Mueller investigates what Flynn told him, Mueller finds evidence that Flynn lied....Mueller confronts Flynn with evidence.....Flynn changes story.....Mueller charges Flynn with perjury....That's how things work.....

RE:Are you saying that Trump took out a LOAN?

Are you playing ignorant? Next you'll be telling me FOX News never mentioned Michael Cohen...


Michael Cohen says he used his own home equity line for Stormy Daniels payment

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The first time Flynn spoke with
Apr 9, 2018 3:08PM PDT

with the FBI, it wasn't under oath, it was at Trump Tower and not at any FBI office, Flynn wasn't told he could have his attorney there because the FBI was actually 'interrogating' him, Flynn believed it was just a 'conversation'. And EVEN THEN, BOTH FBI AGENTS testified that they didn't believe Flynn had lied to them about ANY of the questions they asked. For SOME reason, which has never been revealed or leaked (surprise, surprise), Mueller made the INDEPENDENT decision that Flynn DID lie and charged him.....and then threatened his son with charges as well. It wasn't until after Flynn had completely depleted his money to pay his attorney and put his house up for sale to pay the last of the expenses, that he agreed to plead guilty to 'lying' to the FBI but only if they stopped all harassment of his family.

Flynn's attorney is still working for him, pro bono, because the atty feels that EVERYTHING against ANYBODY is nul and void since a phony dossier was the basis for the FISA warrant that started the Mueller investigation regarding Russian/Trump collusion in the first place. Tens of millions of dollars spent on garbage.......

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RE:Flynn believed it was just a 'conversation'.
Apr 9, 2018 7:31PM PDT
Flynn believed it was just a 'conversation'.

With the FBI? DUH? Idle chit-chat?

word on the street is... He pleaded guilty in December to lying to the FBI about HIS conversations with the Russian ambassador it was a "conversation" all right....between HIM and a Russian....

RE:Mueller made the INDEPENDENT decision that Flynn DID lie

And so did someone else make the same decision....

On the day after Flynn pleaded guilty, the president wrote in a Twitter post said to be composed by Dowd that he fired Flynn for, among other things, lying to the FBI.
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RE:I suspect that Manafort's attorneys
Apr 9, 2018 5:34AM PDT
I suspect that Manafort's attorneys are seeing it differently.

Here come da' Judge.....


Judge rips Manafort's lawsuit to rein in Mueller

U.S. District Judge Amy Berman questioned Manafort's attorney on the legal reasoning behind the former Trump aide's argument that Mueller's investigation has overstepped and should be shut down.

“I don’t really understand what is left of your case,” Berman reportedly told Manafort's attorney, Kevin Downing.
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I never said it would be shut down by his
Apr 9, 2018 5:55AM PDT

attorneys filing that lawsuit regarding stuff that happened YEARS before he was temporarily on Trump's campaign team.....I'm saying that as more evidence against Mueller's tactics come out, including the FISA abuse that Rosenstein committed by using the FAKE dossier as a reason to get that warrant, ALL evidence gathered from it is 'fruit of the poisonous tree' and WILL BE thrown out. Plus, you have the FACT that Rosenstein didn't issue the expansion authority to Mueller until a WEEK AFTER Mueller had already raided Manafort's home.....unlawful search and seizure because he didn't have PRIOR authority to do so.

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RE:I never said it would be shut down by his
Apr 9, 2018 6:49AM PDT

I never said it would be shut down by his attorneys filing that lawsuit regarding stuff that happened YEARS before he was temporarily on Trump's campaign team.

AND neither did the Judge...

RE:I'm saying that as more evidence against Mueller's tactics come out, including the FISA abuse that Rosenstein committed by using the FAKE dossier as a reason to get that warrant, ALL evidence gathered from it is 'fruit of the poisonous tree' and WILL BE thrown out.

Well this Judge didn't think so....“I don’t really understand what is left of your case,” Her words...

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The article
Apr 8, 2018 6:41AM PDT

Is about Trump's base.

Nothing to do with BO or Clinton.

Where did you see anything in the article about collusion?

Is this your method to change the direction of the discussion?

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You hate comparisons....ok....
Apr 8, 2018 6:48AM PDT

And yet, politicians as they campaign for election, HAVE to compare themselves to the other candidates every second of the stump. How do you think they GET elected?

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Comparisons
Apr 8, 2018 7:43AM PDT

I did not say anything about comparisons.

Is this another try at changing the direction of the thread?

Pols get my vote by saying or doing things that are middle of the road.

Go too far left or right and your out.

R or D does not factor in.

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They sure do factor in when you don't
Apr 8, 2018 8:15AM PDT

even want to discuss anything the DEMS are even currently doing to undermine this Rep President, Bob.....Do YOU think the DEM LEADERSHIP RIGHT NOW is too far left for you? Will you vote for ANY OF THEM? Do you agree with their 'IMPEACH' chants? Do you believe Wasser'person' should still be in the Senate after allowing terrorists to have access to top secret documents on her (and other Senators') computers and after she and 44 OTHER Senators never bothered to vet that IT guy and his family (all of which have fled the country except for him)? Do you think DEM governors or mayors should be allowed to go against Federal law and have sanctuary cities and States?

Let's have a CURRENT discussion about their radical far left agenda and see how much of it you ARE willing to discuss since it's in the present and not the past.