Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

- Collapse -
probably just an oversight
May 15, 2015 10:33AM PDT

...since they were assigned to the French at the time and were awarded through them.

- Collapse -
(NT) Sure.
May 15, 2015 11:44AM PDT
- Collapse -
War is chaos
May 16, 2015 4:53AM PDT

Not always is there someone assigned to recording every detail so that battlefield decorations can be properly awarded. Maybe some idiot will decide that all participants in battle should be equipped with body cameras with wireless transmitters having satellite links so that any and every shot fired and every impact to the body can be electronically detected and recorded. Maybe AI software could automatically flag for an award review. Geesh...the aftermath of war can be more involved than the actual scuffle.

- Collapse -
He was [it om
May 16, 2015 9:16AM PDT

His acts of heroism and valor were far above and beyond the call of duty, and even though commanding American Gen. Black Jack Pershing commended him, and the grateful French made him the first American to be awarded the treasured Croix de Guerre, the man nicknamed "Black Death" got nothing from his own country.

Because he was a black man, a Harlem Hellfighter, a member of Company C, 369th Infantry Regiment, American Expeditionary Forces.

It was racism that forced New York to establish a separate, all-black volunteer force. It was racism that forced the 369th to fight under French instead of U.S. command. And it was racism that forced Johnson's heroics to be forgotten.

- Collapse -
sounds like a lot of assumptions there
May 16, 2015 10:28AM PDT

sometimes you look too hard for something, you believe you see it.

- Collapse -
(NT) There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.
May 16, 2015 10:35AM PDT
- Collapse -
I agree about blindness....
May 16, 2015 12:45PM PDT

....since I showed you others who WEREN'T black and they also were given late, posthumous awards. But...keep believing what you want, ignore the evidence that it happens no matter the race, no matter the war, and whatever comfort that gives you.

- Collapse -
Speculation and moaning over it?
May 16, 2015 6:57PM PDT

Instead of doing that, go out and do something nice for someone...and make the choice of that someone independent of their skin color.

- Collapse -
Speculation?
May 16, 2015 7:18PM PDT
- Collapse -
And your own opinion, Mark
May 16, 2015 7:36PM PDT

We're talking WWI here. Were any of us around then to know what the racial atmosphere was like and to also know it using standards of that time?...and do you think pointing at another member's post changes anything? To me, that sounds like the "Yes, but..." argument where one deflects by trying to call attention to the actions of someone else.

I really don't know if there was some plot to deny military service awards based on race during WWI and one incident doesn't make a conspiracy. One thing that's certainly in evidence is that media reporting tends to stress the exceptions rather than the norms. How are we to know the truth when we read articles written by people who weren't even around during the time they are writing about?...and what good does it do to moan and groan about it now? There are certainly more important things we can do with our lives than that if we really want to turn (what we feel are) mistakes into positive experiences...IMO, anyway.

- Collapse -
You notice he wasn't even given a purple heart
May 17, 2015 10:14AM PDT

when he was wounded - another oversight because there were more important things to think about?

BTW the services weren't even integrated until Truman did it after FDR died.

- Collapse -
what's so special about integration?
May 17, 2015 7:08PM PDT

Are you saying black people can't be together as a group without it considered "discrimination"? What do you have against them having their own units? Worried they might have something to be proud of? In fact, a lot of military in past was also divided along regional and state origins. You act like blacks can't be worth anything alone, only if they are somehow mixed with other races. That's just wrong.

- Collapse -
What do you have against them having their own units?
May 17, 2015 8:54PM PDT

You wouldn't object to them having their own country. I guess they did once...

- Collapse -
(NT) Liberia?
May 18, 2015 1:36AM PDT
- Collapse -
I'd say it's not so much about integration as
May 17, 2015 9:49PM PDT

it is about wanting to apply today's thinking and standards to grumble about what happened yesterday. We just cannot do that and be fair unless we want to accept that, tomorrow, future generations will be critical of what we did or tried to do. If the population was mostly segregated back then, it wouldn't make any sense to consider war as great opportunity for social experimentation. I'd think you'd go with the best plans for wartime and leave the experiments for times of relative peace.

- Collapse -
In fact, blacks weren't even allowed to sign up for WWI
May 18, 2015 9:03AM PDT

in the beginning. Then the country instituted a draft but still weren't drafting blacks. When they found out they still weren't getting enough blacks, they started drafting and accepting blacks but in their own companies because the whites refused to fight with them.

So it wasn't their idea. http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwi/articles/fightingforrespect.aspx

I even remember, being in the south for some of my childhood, that the Army wouldn't station black officers in the South.

- Collapse -
(NT) So who do you think we should hate?
May 18, 2015 10:02AM PDT
- Collapse -
(NT) No group - who do you want to hate?
May 18, 2015 10:28AM PDT
- Collapse -
so you accept the enslavement of a draft?
May 18, 2015 10:47AM PDT

I have always opposed any draft, other than protection of the homeland, for fighting on our own soil. Any other military duty should be volunteer only. It's really odd you think it's great that blacks who didn't want to sign up for the war, were instead enslaved to it by a draft. You seem to be double-minded on this.

- Collapse -
Maybe you should read this one if you haven't seen it
May 18, 2015 6:49AM PDT
Harlem Hellfighter Hero: Henry Lincoln Johnson

and from the article

"While the color of their skin eventually barred them from the Victory Parade held later in the spring, however, this was not an issue for the parade on February 17. All along the way there were multitudes of well-wishers. The reporter for The New York Times (February 18, 1919) wrote that candy and cigarettes were tossed to the men by cheering crowds. Both Henry Frick and Mrs. Vincent Astor were spotted waving flags from upper-story windows of their homes on Fifth Avenue. In Harlem, the outpouring of people was overwhelming. Schoolchildren were given the day so that they could attend and celebrate the men's homecoming.

Colonel Haywood led his men on the parade route with great pride, but after Haywood, the most famous face in the parade was Sgt. Henry Johnson—the man who became known as the "Black Death."

Herman Johnson receives cross on behalf of his fatherAt the end of the parade, the 2900 soldiers were packed onto subway car after subway car to travel to 34th Street armory where they were to be honored with a chicken dinner. Their families-desperate to be with them-followed. The reporter from The New York Times wrote: "...the white officers of the regiment ...could not have been more courteous or attentive to the visitors....[they held] long conversations with negro mothers wearing gold stars."


It doesn't sound like it was all bad. There is plenty here to show that Johnson and other solders were appreciated by the citizens. Isn't that more important than something to put in a drawer somewhere? See as well how customs change. The soldiers had candy and cigarettes tossed at them. If returning solders paraded on the streets and were bombarded by cigarettes, there would be quite an angry uproar. We need to stop looking backward with today's eyes and try to imagine what it was like using yesterday's thinking with yesterday's happenings. We do injustice to our past when we do otherwise.
- Collapse -
Racism has always been there...
May 17, 2015 8:41AM PDT

Heck, they didn't even want to send anyone "black" overseas, mainly because they didn't believe they'll be as good. the same during WWII and only slightly during the Korean War. What happened is anyone guess, but if the award was ever to be given, one would practically have to be outstanding even in this case far beyond what can be expected. During WWII, they didn't if want to collect during "blood drives" anyone of color or plainly put, black people. So, I hardly doubt racism isn't in part a neglectful nature of any awards to be given.

If you want read or know someone of "color" that was an important part of providing training and/or support is one person named, Frank Mann. He helped and was a college educated black man that as a boy and later young engineer help resolved many of H. Hughes aircraft problems. Also, much later even had input on the Shuttle transport 747 was capable from his engineering. Build his own cars or highly designed them that was "copied" for cars like the Corvette and Cadillac. One of LeSabre cars based on the aircraft look won many car show award. provided a car or two to famous Hollywood celebrities as well. He personally build his own private "steam engine" as a bet against a local steam train club and won. He also was friend of Gen. Doolittle and helped in his 1st bombing of Japan. In other words someone as technically as capable as another famous scientist, G. Carver. Google him out or use link below:
http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/frank-mann-wartime-aviator-and-engineer

adios -----Willy Happy

- Collapse -
Interesting story, especially as it develops
May 18, 2015 10:56AM PDT

in the thread. I never heard of him.
Recently I've been coming across references to the Tuskegee Airmen. They were assigned mainly as escort fighters for bombing raids over Germany. One of their stories is that the White bomber crews would ask for them as escort- 'They're the best!'
There were some outright murders of Black GIs in WWII, at bases in the South. Never pursued. Non-people, perhaps.
Anyway, racism in the US doesn't require a "plot", it is 'woven into the fabric of the culture'. But it can be eliminated, with the right motive. "At this Peter began to speak, and he said: 'Now I truly understand that God is not partial, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.' "

- Collapse -
Here's where my cynicism says the one who wants to be a hero
May 18, 2015 6:40PM PDT

is some politician...Mr. Schumer perhaps? Consider that WWI was the first time the US fought on foreign soil on a scale of that kind and it led to considerable changes in how soldiers are recruited, trained, used and cared for later. Today, a wounded soldier has automatic lifetime benefits. That wasn't the case prior to the big war as there had been no precedent for it.

And what's in a medal anyway? What does it get you later on other than the right to tell stories from the front porch rocking chair when you're old. Put things in perspective here. Had Mr. Johnson done what he did today, the outcome would have been different because our experiences and values have changed. Why bemoan the past like this and be critical of people who were simply living in another time having different feelings and standards. There's were probably better than the ones of generations before that. Can't we just show some respect for progress rather than gripe about work that wasn't complete?

Mr. Johnson has nothing to gain here but Mr. Schumer does. Don't think your favorite politicians are really looking out other than their own awards.

- Collapse -
dragging skeletons
May 19, 2015 5:02AM PDT

out of the closet is all the Liberals have left to them now.

- Collapse -
And "conservatives" have "short memories"
May 19, 2015 6:39AM PDT

OR

"they/you" don't mention the past?

Benghazi? OR is Benghazi the "present"?

When does the present become the past?