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Etreme Left quietly trying to

by TONI H / April 21, 2014 11:20 PM PDT
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Wouldn't the popular vote ...
by Kees_B Forum moderator / April 21, 2014 11:35 PM PDT

be advantageous for the more or less conservative and religious majority of US-citizens?

A clear advantage is that it is more difficult to manipulate (by concentrating the campaign and the money on swing states, and by changing borders between districts) and that it guarantees an equal weight to everybody (again: not only in the swing states).

Kees

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It does the exact opposite
by TONI H / April 21, 2014 11:55 PM PDT

because the majority of the time, the swing states vote Democrat and carry the most electoral votes.....and those are the states currently in favor of doing away with the electoral college. If the states that carry the most votes are able to, all by themselves, hold 270 electoral votes total, the rest of the country ultimately won't matter at all and therefore WON'T have the 'popular' vote count at all. A handful of states will be the only ones that will matter and will control the outcome, even if the rest of the states actually carry the popular vote.

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Looks like the chances of the Tea Party
by JP Bill / April 22, 2014 12:45 AM PDT

surviving are pretty slim, sometimes I wonder why they even bother.

I mean the entire system is stacked against them.

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(NT) Not when they've got billionaires in their pocket.
by Rob_Boyter / April 22, 2014 7:24 AM PDT
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If "the swing states vote Democrat" "a majority of the time,
by Rob_Boyter / April 22, 2014 7:23 AM PDT

" doesn't that make them Democratic states? Or does that disagree with your innate bias. Your statement indicates you think that all states which vote Democratic are Swing States?

From your post, first line " the majority of the time, the swing states vote Democrat" meaning the majority of the time, the states vote for the Democratic Party, which is the definition of a state which votes Democratic. You consider them swing states? What are they swinging between then, if votes for the Democratic Party aren't deemed valid in your peculiar one-eyed point of view?

What a remarkably dumb assertion. Some states tend to vote Democrat, some tend to vote Republican. None of this is cast in stone, and you can fool some of the people some of the time, viz. The Reagan Mudslide, but no state is a permanent lock for either party.

However doing away with the Electoral College won't fix that problem.

I notice that your source only cites NewsMax and FoxNews and the Weekly Standard, all far-Right sources. This whole thing is a hard-right scare tactic. There is no significant group of people advocating this course, and both liberals and conservatives according to the article oppose it.

It is amusing though that when majority opinion agrees with yours it's right and when it disagrees with you it's wrong. You have just defined partisanship very clearly for us.

Rob

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Getting rid of it will stop one candidate
by Diana Forum moderator / April 22, 2014 7:36 AM PDT

getting the majority of the votes and still losing.

I was told it is like baseball. The ones that win the most games goes for the World Series. They don't count the number of runs homes and compare them and the ones with the most scores are go to the World Series.

Diana

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keeping it will ensure
by James Denison / April 24, 2014 2:55 AM PDT

that two high population states like California and New York end up picking the President for all the other 48 states.

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There are 13 states already
by TONI H / April 22, 2014 7:37 AM PDT

that are advocating for this 'change'....and coincidentally they are states that have the most electoral votes (they now total 165 and only 270 are needed) which, if a few more states with large electoral votes sign on, it makes the entire rest of the country irrelevant with regard to THEIR votes. So it wouldn't necessarily reflect the 'popular' vote because the rest of the country wouldn't need to vote or be counted at all.

Wouldn't that literally be 'oppressing the vote', which is the argument that Holder and BO use against voter id laws?

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You just need a smaller country....
by JP Bill / April 22, 2014 7:40 AM PDT

A Republican country, A Democratic country, A Tea party county....and on and on and on

that would work....

OR you could have ONE country and have a government determined by a majority.

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Which is what we have now
by TONI H / April 22, 2014 7:46 AM PDT

A 'popular' vote doesn't necessarily mean the correct person wins. BO still has a 'popular' likeability number that is high because he is likeable....but the majority don't trust him anymore.

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RE: but the majority don't trust him anymore.
by JP Bill / April 22, 2014 7:53 AM PDT

Well he'll be gone no matter what happens...in a few years....sit back and enjoy...the best part of getting something you enjoy is waiting for it to happen.

doesn't necessarily mean the correct person wins.

No matter who wins everyone will not be happy...whoever wins...the MAJORITY will be happy.

That's how it works.

if the majority can live with it....you can suffer with it.

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I think you will find that that isn't a firm number, Toni
by Rob_Boyter / April 24, 2014 12:38 AM PDT

Obama's policies, particularly the ACA, are gaining more acceptance as the ACA turns into a success. As the enrollment figures firm up (signing up takes about 2 months to filter through the bureaucracy) the enrollment seems to be rising well above the 7 million mark. I don't know when or if the CBO will weigh in on this and provide a fully accurate figure.

Rob

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I remember a comedy routine about Quebec wanting to secede
by Rob_Boyter / April 24, 2014 12:33 AM PDT

from Canada and become "Algeria on the St. Lawrence". It was called Nothing Secedes Like Secession. Quebec secedes from Canada 3 weeks later Montreal secedes from Quebec and rejoins Canada, 8 weeks later Quebec City secedes from Quebec because the seceded Province is insufficiently radical for the Parti Quebecois true believers. Shortly thereafter Language Police patrol the streets arresting people with the wrong accent. Consternation ensues when the Language Police and expel the French ambassador for not speaking correct Quebec French. Ultimately Quebec ends up as 126 separate and distinct societies, all Police States.

Rob

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the way I heard it
by James Denison / April 24, 2014 2:59 AM PDT

Quebec secedes and the rest of Canada decides to become US states.

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Rob had a comedy scenario....
by JP Bill / April 24, 2014 9:10 PM PDT
In reply to: the way I heard it

yours is a tragedy scenario.

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If the country was divided regionally
by James Denison / April 24, 2014 2:57 AM PDT

by the type of voters, then Liberals would have NY state and most of the New England states, along with probably the 3 west coast states. The rest of the country would be owned by the Conservatives, which is the considerably larger area by land size.

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You just said that NY and CA would pick the President
by Diana Forum moderator / April 24, 2014 2:41 PM PDT

Now you are saying that the rest of the country would be larger.

BTW the electoral college is based on the number of representatives for each state which is determined by population rather than by land mass.

Diana

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yes, but more accurate census figures
by James Denison / April 25, 2014 9:44 AM PDT

help avoid the stuffed ballot box approach where popular vote would be the only thing counted.

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No, because it means crooked states
by James Denison / April 24, 2014 2:52 AM PDT

could stuff the vote and thereby cheat against all the other states. Electoral College is necessary to ensure stability between the states, provide a stop gap against corruption and cheating.

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Are we going back to the voter fraud which has
by Diana Forum moderator / April 24, 2014 2:43 PM PDT

been debunked and minor and mostly Republican.

Diana

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It would be nice if you gave us some information about who
by Rob_Boyter / April 22, 2014 7:51 AM PDT

other than George Soros is advocating this course. Assertions of this kind should be backed up by some kind of evidence. So far as I can tell the Right Wing News Cabal have made this assertion up out of whole cloth, and placed their idea of the Devil at the root of it. No factual evidence, no citations, just air, hot stinky air. I know that Conservatives have trouble with truthfulness and factual evidence, it gets im the way of them making it all up, but a little attention to plausibility would be nice.

What is it about facts that repel you so much, Toni?

Rob

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I gave you the facts....
by TONI H / April 22, 2014 8:24 PM PDT

If you don't like the source and the name of the main person behind it, like you blame the Koch Bros for everything you claim on the right, tuff. Soros has been behind a large portion of the left's agendas 'coming true' for a number of years now and he and people like Tom Steyer pushing and donating $50M to 'climate change' and stopping the Keystone Pipeline and Bloomberg spending $50M to fight the NRA for gun control.

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I don't blame the Koch brothers for everything.
by Diana Forum moderator / April 23, 2014 1:00 AM PDT

They are just the most visible face of the right-wing billionaires.

Diana

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There are a number
by TONI H / April 23, 2014 1:53 AM PDT

of left-wing billionaires that the liberal media never mention that are helping financially to push left agendas.....and they've been around for a long time.

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(NT) So far all I've heard of is George Soros.
by Diana Forum moderator / April 23, 2014 3:50 AM PDT
In reply to: There are a number
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I mentioned two others
by TONI H / April 23, 2014 8:27 AM PDT

Tom Steyer and Bloomberg.........but, do you remember Michael Moore and Media Matters (they have various groups out there now and are more politically active than they even were before)

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(NT) Good. Glad they're getting closer to Republican activism
by Rob_Boyter / April 24, 2014 12:42 AM PDT
In reply to: I mentioned two others
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No, you've heard
by James Denison / April 24, 2014 3:01 AM PDT

Koch Brothers and George Soros. One for each ear.

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(NT) I was talking about on the left, not both
by Diana Forum moderator / April 24, 2014 2:44 PM PDT
In reply to: No, you've heard
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(NT) You gave me the assertions of pre-paid news media, not facts
by Rob_Boyter / April 24, 2014 12:41 AM PDT
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