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Especially for those who ranted about 'voter fraud'...

by Edward ODaniel / August 11, 2005 4:25 AM PDT

and "voter intimidation" and laid such at the feet of the Republicans despite having it pointed out to them that the manual posted on the DNC site pointed out how Democrats were expected to intimidate.

http://www.ac4vr.com/news/acvrnews080205.html

"Report: Democrat Operatives Far More Involved In Voter Intimidation And Suppression In 2004, Thousands Of Americans Disenfranchised By Vote Fraud On Election Day

Contact: Jim ****, (843) 722-9670

Washington, DC ? The American Center For Voting Rights Legislative Fund ("ACVR Legislative Fund") today released the most comprehensive and authoritative review of the facts surrounding allegations of vote fraud, intimidation and suppression made during the 2004 presidential election.

The ACVR Legislative Fund report, "Vote Fraud, Intimidation & Suppression In The 2004 Presidential Election," finds that while Democrats routinely accuse Republicans of voter intimidation and suppression, neither party has a clean record on the issue. The report finds that paid Democrat operatives were far more involved in voter intimidation and suppression activities than were their Republican counterparts during the 2004 presidential election. Examples include paid Democrat operatives charged with slashing tires on GOP get-out-the-vote vans in Milwaukee and an Ohio court order stopping Democrat operatives from calling voters telling them the wrong date for the election and faulty polling place information."

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Another opinion of the report
by JP Bill / August 11, 2005 4:50 AM PDT
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You've already given
by Dan McC / August 11, 2005 5:05 AM PDT

this report more attention then it deserves.

Dan

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(NT) (NT) Hey, welcome back, Dan.
by Jack Ammann / August 11, 2005 7:48 AM PDT
In reply to: You've already given
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The BS never ends and those who believe any of it
by gearup / August 11, 2005 5:05 AM PDT

are either fools or delusional!

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So YOU didn't actually read the report...
by Edward ODaniel / August 11, 2005 5:33 AM PDT

and have to rely on a rather biased "reporter" to do it for you. (Hint regarding his bias would be his humorous remark about "The "findings" about Democrat wrongdoing are not surprising considering that the three public faces of the nonpartisan group are very partisan Republican operatives -- including one who claims to be a sounding board for senior White House adviser Karl Rove." which suggest he didn't invest any time in bothering about accuracy or even recognizing reality.)

Your and Dan's posts are rather telling--you spent as little time as Dimitri Vassilaros reading or researching fact.

Might I suggest that you follow the link I offered then take a look at those in charge of that little organization? You don't even have to take their word for being DEMOCRATS, you can get busy with Google and do some research on them.

Interestingly enough you can also verify the findings of the study the same way. (Admittedly not as easy and simple as sitting there allowing "reporters" to spoon feed you pap.)

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(NT) (NT) You mean they actually have to deal with facts?
by dirtyrich / August 11, 2005 7:09 AM PDT
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There are no "Facts" just hype and being
by gearup / August 11, 2005 7:15 AM PDT

discontent with our hedonistic society doesnt change anything. Politicians are liars. Those who believe them are fools!

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No facts?
by dirtyrich / August 11, 2005 11:33 AM PDT

Here I thought the conviction of the Democratic party boss in Illinois could be considered factual.

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Me?
by JP Bill / August 11, 2005 12:14 PM PDT

...Read a 368 page report on Politics,

You're joking

Did you?

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Since all this is none of your business, why would you read
by Kiddpeat / August 11, 2005 3:17 PM PDT
In reply to: Me?

a large report? I wouldn't read one about Canada.

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Yes you.
by Edward ODaniel / August 14, 2005 4:47 AM PDT
In reply to: Me?

As for myself, at the time of posting I had only read the release and skimmed the report and READ the executive summary.

Since then I have read the rest of it.

Online version can be accessed here:
http://www.ac4vr.com/reports/072005/default.html

Downloadable PDF (13.7 meg) can be accessed here:
http://www.ac4vr.com/reports/072005/080205report.pdf

Unlike some I do attempt to actually familiarize myself rather than rely of being spoon fed. Those of you who don't and rely blindly on the spoon feeding are likely to discover they have been consuming "smart pills". (NOTE: "smart pills" are produced by rabbits, deer, elk, sheep, etc. and are so named because one day the consumer realizes what he/she has been medicated with.)

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SOP for the Dems/Left. Accuse your opponent of using the
by Kiddpeat / August 11, 2005 3:12 PM PDT

tactics that you use. Thus, claim that Bush is a liar because you KNOW Clinton is.

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Voter fraud should be instant and long term prison.
by crowsfoot / August 12, 2005 12:37 AM PDT

What worse crime is there against democracy and The People? It's shameful there isn't a total sweeping clean, at each and every election, of anyone and everyone who practice this crap, no matter party or prominence. You do it, you're OUT OF THERE! No ifs, ands or buts! We are trying to sell democracy to the world. Our kids are serving and dieing to help this cause. And THEN, at every election this crap goes on and nobody goes to jail! What is up with that? We are poor examples, and yet refuse to admit our need for atonment.

Pay-back double... like a bunch of third graders. "Everybody does it!" Not good enough. Not by a looooong shot.


-->

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Laudable, perhaps, but rather impractical...
by EdH / August 12, 2005 12:50 AM PDT

especially considering how the people who would have to pass such laws got in office!

Indeed, the Founders were wise to NOT make the US a Democracy.

I personally think cheating on both sides tends to cancel out but one side DOES seem to do it more than the other. You know who you are...

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Naugh! Hu'ah! No!!! That is unacceptable! SHAME on you, Ed!
by crowsfoot / August 12, 2005 2:19 PM PDT

I don't give a good cahoot ratsass WHAT you say about: ''the Founders were wise to NOT make the US a Democracy.'' Call it what you wish, the deal is, ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE! THAT is the deal! Personally, I think electioneering lies are tantamount to treason and I see no reason to NOT hold culprits guilty until proven innocent.

(Less extreme but for the same reasons) For empathy's sake, and to site you an example of how difficult it really is under even under the most ideal of circumstances, I give you us. Here in SE. We fight tooth and nail, year after year, on each and every infinitesimal point in hopes of influencing one mind... or two. We even allow ourselves to stretch our words to the breaking point, into pejorative realms. And to what effect? Probably none. Still we try! Compare that (us) to plain, straight out cheating at the polling place or worse, within the ballot-box itself. No no, nay nay! That's the game the in-kids did on the playgrounds in, like I said, third grade! I say: hang 'em! Hang the cheaters every one! Hang 'em TWICE and feed 'em to the catfishes! Puree the catfishes and fertilize some bull-nettle with the juice!

How can election cheating be other than a high crime? It can't! Our troops are here there and everywhere, dieing for the principals of fairness and equality exemplified by ''one-person, one-vote''. If you think election cheating is OK, tell THEM that.

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One foot on... and one foot off...
by crowsfoot / August 12, 2005 2:29 PM PDT

and one foot on that south bound train.
I'm going down
to New Orleans
to wear that ball and chain.

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Clarity in an otherwise...
by gooslojo / August 12, 2005 2:33 PM PDT

....two headed forum where the cries of "my dad's better than your dad" are heard on a daily basis.
Well put,crowsfoot.

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:-) Thanks, gooslojo!
by crowsfoot / August 12, 2005 3:26 PM PDT

I was beginning to wonder who 'ya gotta bathe to get a hallelujah 'round here. Seems the most simple, straight forward, first-principal in the book to me. The vote is sacred. Core.

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NOT clarity, by a long shot..
by EdH / August 12, 2005 8:25 PM PDT

I only pointed out what is real. If you can't deal with reality you can't do anything.

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I agree with you EdH
by gooslojo / August 13, 2005 12:22 AM PDT

But what crowsfoot made crystal clear(IMO) was how SE mirrors the BS in National Politics.

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Se isn't the only place where the
by TONI H / August 13, 2005 12:40 AM PDT
In reply to: I agree with you EdH

BS gets slung as you pointed out. BS is everywhere...education, local,state,federal government branches, news media, internet forums/blogs, politics/politicians.

The point of it all is to somehow, somewhere get the word out regarding BOTH sides of the bull in order for the PEOPLE who DO vote get all of the information....not just bits and pieces that one side or the other wants you to have....so that logical, rational decision making can take place.

Unfortunately, if there is a whole page of information, the ones looking for specific BS will only pick only ONE area that they agree with or ONE area that feeds their gullabilities, and THAT is the only thing that jumps into their brains and decisions are made on that item alone. More people are vulnerable to innuendo, intimidation, BS than we like to believe they are, and those people are the ones who are voting right next to you. They don't have the ability to sort the facts from the chaff because they only go so far with checking out either....or they use other people's opinions as gospel and adopt it as their own. That's how cults are started, too.

These are the people who are standing in the line to vote and are the scariest ones of all.

TONI

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TV Media Blitz
by gooslojo / August 13, 2005 8:14 AM PDT

I agree these are scary voters and I couldn't help but wonder how much the mudslinging on tv influences voters.There are many Americans who believe everything they see and hear on tv.These are the same people who read supermarket tabloids as if it were the Wall Street Journal.

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(NT) (NT) I didn't say it was okay. Get a grip.
by EdH / August 12, 2005 8:21 PM PDT
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(NT) (NT) I know you didn't. A raw nerve. Sorry.
by crowsfoot / August 12, 2005 10:25 PM PDT
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One person, one vote
by Evie / August 13, 2005 12:35 AM PDT

Yes.

But the structure of the electoral college put a few layers and checks between that vote and the election of a President. And with remarkable forethought IMO. With the population of NYC being THREE TIMES THAT of the entire state of CT, all it takes is unchecked fraud in NYC to obliterate the valid votes of an entire state. This is why the popular vote to elect a President would be a disaster.

Evie Happy

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Voters in rural America might decide to stop
by Dragon / August 13, 2005 10:26 AM PDT
In reply to: One person, one vote

voting, when otherwise, they would feel as if they have a chance.

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NOT A GOOD IDEA...
by Edward ODaniel / August 14, 2005 4:30 AM PDT

because it would eliminate the Democratic Party and we really do need a two party system.

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