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General discussion

EOS 7D Vs. 5D MkII?

by hatfieldnate Dec 6, 2009 10:00PM PST

Okay, I'm feeling a bit flummoxed at my choices. I'm looking to upgrade to a dSLR early in the new year. I've been reading a lot on the 7D, and it's getting great reviews. However, from what I've read, it doesn't appear it's full frame. A pro photographer friend of mine has suggested I buy a used 5D MkII because it's full frame and she thinks I'll be much more satisfied with the images I get. The basic problem there is price. New is of course hugely expensive and used isn't available with the company I was planning to buy from, so no interest free purchase. And, from what I've read and struggled to understand, it sounds like I'd have to be a lot more selective about the lenses I buy with the 5D, because it shows up flaws that much better? Which means a higher price again.

I'm mostly interested in macro shooting, landscapes, and portraits. I do find wide angle shooting interesting and I'd like to do some of that as well, which I understand is much better on a full frame camera.

Is there anyone out there who has used both models? Is there anyone who's had a similar conundrum and can offer some advice? Anything would be better than the confusion running around in my head. Thanks very much.

Discussion is locked

9 Posts
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Well, the 2 cameras will serve you differently.
by jump1127 Dec 7, 2009 12:32AM PST

7D is designed for sport, nature lives shooting. It's something similar to what Canon 1D is suitable for, with 1/3 of 1D sales price. The good things of a multiplier DSLR camera? You don't have to be concerned over the lense's quality, unlike many full frame cameras, such as 1DS ( I-III )and 5D(I&II ). 7D is likely to pull out the best part of any applied lense regard the sensor size. Nevertheless, it also needs superwide angle zoom lense, such as EF-S 10-22, for landscape shooting.

The good things for full frame DSLR camera ? The depth of field and the wide angle effects are most common factors. The full frame DSLR camera, such as 5D mark II, is very good for landscape and portrait shooting. But, you'll require to have some good lenses so that the qualtiy of camera can show the differences. Lense's vignet and soft edges are some common to find for a full frame DSLR camera. So, there's no absolute answer whether to go for a full frame or multiplier DSLR camera. Basically, it's the budget and type of shooting. Choose well and good luck

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7D vs 5D MarkII
by hjfok Dec 7, 2009 10:24AM PST

For macro, landscape and portraits, the 5D Mark II will be better but as you said cost a bit more (but it is a great bargain for a full frame camera). The 7D is mainly a sports camera but can still do a very good job with macro, landscape and portraits.

To get shallower depth of field, you usually use a fast lens. Obviously a full frame camera body will give you addition advantage for shallow DOF. To get both full frame camera and fast lenses will cost you thousands. If your budget allows either a fast lens or a full frame camera body, then you should pick the fast lens because a full frame body without a fast lens will not give you a shallow depth of field.

Getting the 5D Mark II does not necessarily save you money on the wide angle lenses. Actually the EF-S 10-22mm for APS-C DSLR cameras like 7D is less expensive than the typical high quality wide angle L-lenses.

So it comes down to the basic, getting a better lens will serve you better than a more expensive camera body if you have a limited budget. Also remember that camera bodies prices have come down in recent years, including full frame bodies. But the prices for fast lenses remain about the same. And used camera body usually has deeper discounted price than a used lens. So buying a fast lens now is a better investment. And when you save up enough money later, the 5D Mark II price will have come down or there will be some used ones for sale.

I have the 5D Mark II and its image quality is great. If you already have some fast or high quality lenses, then it is a great bargain for a full frame camera. The kit lens EF 24-105mm f/4L IS is actually quite good, and has a discount of >$200 when bought together with the 5D.

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So it seems...
by hatfieldnate Dec 7, 2009 9:41PM PST

as though, given my current budget of approximately 2 to 3 grand, I'd be better off going with the 7D and some decent lenses, and upgrading to a new or used 5D Mk II body when I have a bit more budget to play with. Does that sound reasonable?

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Portrait Lens?
by hatfieldnate Dec 7, 2009 9:55PM PST

Also, can you guys recommend a good EF-S lens for portraits and close up shots? I assume one exists.

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There are a few
by kalel33-20416052469708587370302374692233 Dec 8, 2009 10:57AM PST

The 70-200 F2.8 and the 85mm F1.2(F1.8 if you don't want to spend that much).

To add to the discussion, the 7D is overkill in features for what you plan to shoot. You don't buy the 7D for the image quality over a 50D, T1i, or XS. You buy it because you need the speed of the AF system and firing rate.

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EF-S?
by Desperado JC Dec 8, 2009 9:21PM PST

Let me get this straight. You hope to upgrade to a 5D II, but want to buy EF-S lenses. You do realize that these lenses will not work on a full frame camera, including the 5D II, don't you?

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I do...
by hatfieldnate Dec 8, 2009 9:48PM PST

Yes, I know that EF-S lenses won't work on a full frame camera. That doesn't concern me right now. I don't mind buying other lenses for the 5D, if I choose to upgrade.

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Go for an extreme ?
by jump1127 Dec 9, 2009 3:28PM PST

I suggest Carl Zeiss, 50 F1.4 ZE ( for Canon mounting ). The lense quality is superb, but you have to get used to the manual focusing. Try it and see how beautiful the lense's bokeh is.

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Lens
by hjfok Dec 10, 2009 10:11AM PST

Agree with the above.

For portraits, you should have a focal range of about 85 to 130mm. A 50-55mm lens used with 7D will be equivalent to about 80-85mm, the lower end of what you need for head/shoulder shots.

If you plan on upgrading to full frame body, then you should avoid EF-S lenses. You can't use these on full frame. There is one exception. I do like the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS a lot, and it now stays with my old 30D camera. This lens can be used for portraits at its 55mm end. Overall it has excellent optics.

The 85mm f/1.2L lens is one of the best portrait lens Canon makes, it is most optimally used on a full frame body, but will get very good results with the APS-C size bodies.

The 70-200mm f/2.8L IS lens is a superb mid range tele that is excellent for portraits and sports. It is not as good for portrait as the 85mm f/1.2L but it is what a lot of wedding photographers use because having a zoom lens is more versatile.

The 50mm f/1.4 lens from Canon is actually quite sharp at f/2 and can be a good portrait lens on 7D. The Carl Zeiss lens is even better, if you are a perfectionist but the difference may not be noticeable on a normal size print. But 50mm on a full frame body falls short of being a good portrait lens for head/shoulder shots.

Well all these talks about fast lens is mainly about taking portrait shots with ambient light with shallow depth of field. You want a shallow depth of field because the background sometime becomes distracting. But this is not the case for all portraits. Some portraits can be enhanced by the background, especially if it tells a story about the subject or if it is a travel snapshot. Furthermore, studio style portraits don't necessarily need a shallow depth of field. When I take my family portraits at home using large strobes, I often meter the main light to f/11 and the fill light f/8, with a hair light of about f/16, and a grid light for background. This way you get everyone in sharp focus, but you will need to make sure you have a pleasing background (or use a Muslin backdrop with/without color gel).

Buying a high quality fast lens will give you flexibility, but it comes with a more hefty price tag and heavier weight.
Here is a list of some high quality popular Canon lenses:
Wide angle:
EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II
EF 17-40mm f/4L if the other one is too expensive

General purpose/portrait:
EF 24-70mm f/2.8L
EF 24-105mm f/4L has good discount with the 5D MkII
EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS for 7D or APS-C bodies
EF 85mm f/1.2L II for portraits
EF 85mm f/1.8 if cost is a concern
EF 50mm f/1.4 as a normal perspective lens on FF but can be used for portraits with APS-C bodies.

Mid-range tele (buy the IS version if possible):
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L +/- IS
EF 70-200mm f/4L +/- IS
EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

Macro:
EF 100mm f/2.8L IS macro

Don't forget polarizer and neutral density filters.
And of course an external flash is a must (Speedlite 580 or 430EX).

Good luck

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