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General discussion

Emachines steps back in time?

Jul 2, 2005 5:57PM PDT

Why, after producing the T6212 for the second quarter in the Athlon 64 line of computers with a socket 939 processor and mobo would they step back in time in the third quarter with the new T6410 and T6520, both with the OLD socket 754????
After a blockbuster hit like the T6212, which I bought, why would they step backward like this. Doesn't make sense....and now the friends I have recommended the T6212 to are finding it sold out.

Discussion is locked

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But
Jul 2, 2005 11:24PM PDT

For the 90% of folks that buy a PC without ever having future plans to upgrade the processor later, does this matter at all?

I am sorry, I am still just trying to learn about the differences between the socket configs on the mobos./ If I understand the responses from a earlier post I asked about a week ago, it really is only a big consideration if you plan on replacing the processor in 2-3 years. SO if I do not plan on doing that, does the socket layout matter?

Again, just curious. This (for some reason) continues to be the one topic I do not understand as much about in these forums. Seems as if a lot of smarter than me folks will say something about it not being the 939 processor, but then leave it at that at not describe why that is an issue.

why is it an issue?

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socket 754 vs. socket 939
Jul 2, 2005 11:42PM PDT

There really isn't much of a speed drop when going back to using the socket 754. I read somewhere on anandtech that an Athlon with dual-channel gained 3%-4% better performance than the single-channel Athlon.

Plus, at a price that low, who cares about losing a few frames when AMD is so wicked fast in the first place.

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its mostly about upgrade
Jul 3, 2005 1:25AM PDT

if they use 939, people get pcie dual channel, 400mhz memory, the ability to upgrade to an fx 55 and so on. what about the college kids that dont need all of these things? its actually a good thing IMO

konny

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New emachines
Jul 3, 2005 1:42AM PDT

I bought the T6212 in May and added the x700 pro graphics card and a gig of ram and am very happy with its performance. I was looking in the best buy sunday ad and saw the new line of emachines, the T6410 and T6520, I noticed that the speeds were 2.2 and 2.4 ghz is this just a typo since the T6212, and T6410 both have an amd 64 3200+ , but why is it that the T6410 has a 2.2 ghz clock frequency when the T6212 is a 2.0 ghz clock frequency?

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The T6520 is a 64 3400+
Jul 3, 2005 2:10AM PDT

I saw the same add, and finally think this might be the one to pull the trigger on and purchase.

I don't knwo the readon for the difference between the T6212 and T6410, BUT Best Buy ad had the T6410 for $459 w/ Printer and Monitor (17" regular, not flat screen).2.0 ghz clock speed But for $100 more you can upgrade to the NEW T6520, which is an upgrade from the 3200+ to the 3400+. Plus adds 512 mb of ram and jump from a 160gb to 200 gb hard drive. 2.2 ghz speed Total price after rebates then for the NEW t6520 is $559, including monitor and printer. AND I guess yes this is not the 939 processor, but for under $600 seems like quite the deal.

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OK but...
Jul 3, 2005 9:35AM PDT

Still socket 754...obsolite!

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754 vs 939
Jul 4, 2005 5:17AM PDT

You are correct the 754 will be obsolete, However so will the 939, Amd's next generation of Cpu's is not going to be using 939, So in the end 939 will end up being obsolete before you know it also. That is why unless dual channel is something you feel you just can't live without, I would save some cash and get the 754 board. Most folks looking to buy their computer from places like bestbuy, Circuit city, Etc, Are probably not really intersted in upgrading their processor to an Fx 55 or 57, ( Spending between $800-1,000 on just the processor upgrade)They just want a good solid computer that will be good for the next few years, IMO the 754 boards will do that nicely.

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Sorry but.....
Jul 4, 2005 10:18AM PDT

I only buy a brand name computer if it is upgradable as far as I can see into the future. There is no future for 754! And newbies soon become educated users (in some cases) and find they can't do what they want to do without a new computer,,,,The one they buy has to be upgradeable or get a new oneHappy

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So, then you upgrade.
Jul 6, 2005 4:23AM PDT

All this talk about an obsolete MOBO. It's all obsolete over time.

The T6520 IS upgradeable. When the time comes, replace the MOBO (and the processor, if you like).

Ba da BOOM. Upgraded for around $100.

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The Clock.....
Jul 3, 2005 9:33AM PDT

...is slower on the 939 but the FSB is 2000 rather than 1600....I, personally, would NEVER buy a socket 754 when 939 is available! You simply have vendors dumping their 754 obsolite crap on us. If you want cheap do it but, pay later. Don't get socket 754!

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(NT) (NT) No clue!
Jul 3, 2005 8:55AM PDT
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Something to offer
Jul 3, 2005 5:50PM PDT

Some products have "legs" they tend to sell as they're rea;l good. Maybe AMD is dumping the last of thier older cpus or since they need a full line of products and the old cpu still is a valid offfering, why not offer it. The differences are there but not everyone needs the latest and greatest to get thier computing done. AND maybe you've answered you're own question, with the T6212 selling out or low numbers they have to offer something to bridge the gap.

tada -----Willy

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Yeh! I think you are right.
Jul 3, 2005 6:48PM PDT

They probably bought a huge supply of Athlon 64 socket 754 CPUs and mobos at a bargain basement priceHappy

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Well, we all know ( us in these forums) that
Jul 4, 2005 6:45AM PDT

the AMD Athlon 64 3400 is a 754-pin socket in the T6520 by just noting at the AMD site that they do not make a 939-pin in the 3400. Awful lot of people who buy computers just do not know that and could care less that it is a 754 socket when comparing what they get for the money as compared to the T6212. Some differences:

T6520 has the MS Media Center Edition 2005 Operating System.
T6212 has the WinXP Home edition.

T6520 has a Athlon 64 3400 Processor, 754-pin.
T6212 has a Athlon 64 3200 Processor, 939-pin.

T6520 has 1GB of RAM.
T6212 has 512MB RAM.

T6520 has a 200GB 7200RPM Hard Drive.
T6212 has a 160 GB 7200 RPM Hard Drive.

Both have integrated graphics with a PCI-Express X-16 slot available for upgrading to a PCIe video card for increased gaming performance.

And the price:

T6520 at the Emachine home site and Best Buy $649.99 - $50 mail in rebate = $599.99 without a monitor or printer.
T6212 was $629.99 - $50 mail-in rebate = $579.99 without a monitor or printer

T6250 on sale at Best Buy as of Sunday's Flyer for $559.97 after rebates, with 17" Flat Screen CRT monitor and Color printer.
T6212 was on sale several times at Best Buy, Circuit City and CompUSA for $550 after rebates with a monitor and color printer.

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Gee Stone, I can't seem to find
Jul 4, 2005 7:08AM PDT

a link to anything showing the T6410 having a 754 socket. The T6410 is almost the same as the T6212 in that it also has the Athlon 64 3200 processor.

The ATI RS480 chipset can support both Socket 754 and 939. Some clues in my searching what is in the T6410:

In checking the ATI site on the AMD Socket 754 with RS480 and Radeon

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Sorry, but it is....
Jul 4, 2005 10:07AM PDT

definatly socket 754 which is now obsolete based on the last 10 years of computer advances. We are talking about dumping old stuff and that is what buyers of these 2 "new" machines are buying! Old tech at a low price. Great if you use it 'til it dies, but......If you want dual channel memory etc you are screwedSad

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(NT) (NT) Where does it say that it's a Socket 754?
Jul 4, 2005 10:30AM PDT
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RE:
Jul 4, 2005 4:16PM PDT

1600Mhz Hypertransport=754
2200Mhz Hypertransport=939

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Re:
Jul 4, 2005 9:01PM PDT

I think that should read:

1600Mhz Hypertransport=754
2000Mhz Hypertransport=939

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The T6520 *does* in fact have a socket-939 processor
Jul 5, 2005 4:44AM PDT

I've been seriously considering buying this system, but I was hesitant based on the comments posted in this forum. So I called Emachines. Two different tech support people there told me that the T6520 comes with a socket-939 processor (as opposed to the older, less desireable socket-754 one). Then I called AMD's tech support. I asked the AMD technician whether they make an Athlon 64 3400+ processor in the socket-939 configuration. She said yes, they do, it's a valid part. It's just not listed on AMD's website (which misleadingly says the 3400+ is socket-754) because it's an OEM part, i.e reserved for vendors like Emachines. I don't know enough to speak to the issue of why the T6520's FSB is listed as 1600MHz instead of 2000 or higher, but I'm feeling more confident now that the T6520 is not just a place for Emachines to dump its old parts, and I'll probably buy one.

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...more info. on the T6520's socket-939 processor
Jul 5, 2005 4:58AM PDT

One more thing...

I just called back and asked the same AMD tech support person why it is that the T6520's FSB is listed as 1600MHz instead of 2000MHz if it does, indeed, have a socket-939 processor. She told me that, again, it's a special peculiarity of this OEM part. The 3400+ processor in the T6520 is exactly the same as the Athlon 64 3500+ with the exception that this particular 3400+ processor has the slower FSB (1600). You techie wizards can surely figure out how this is possible, but I can't Wink

You'd think they could just tell people this stuff on the box!

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Wrong!
Jul 5, 2005 5:03AM PDT

The T6520 IS socket 754!!! No dual channel memory and 1600FSB. ALL 939 Mobos have 2000FSB as far as I know.
CompUsa still has the T6212 available from the last quarter and I strongly recommend you buy that one. I own one and am delightedHappy
With socket 939 vs 754 you loose .2 Gig of clock speed but gain an additional 400FSB and dual channel memory.

Keith

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Not so fast!
Jul 5, 2005 7:09AM PDT

Hi there. OK, here's a link to a 939-socket Athlon 64 3400+ that's on sale right now:

http://store.yahoo.com/pcmemory-stores/cu-amd340064939.html

So it does exist. If you google "amd 3400+" socket 939, click on the first link, and then scroll through the forum postings, you'll find this info. posted on 1/22/05 by "Tup":

"For those wondering about the CPU, it is an OEM CPU that was on a limited production in Sept 04, Tigerdirect and newegg got some. It is essentially a 3500+ with a 1600FSB instead of a 2000FSB. It is indeed a socket 939."

However, I just called Emachines tech support *AGAIN* to ask for more complete information, and the technician said that, in fact, the T6520 is listed as having a 939-socket Athlon 64 6400+ with a FSB of 2000 MHz. That is, the CompUSA and BestBuy websites are posting the wrong information about this new system. Chalk it up to the system being so new. I was at BestBuy this morning, and they didn't even have a display unit out of the box for the T6520 yet.

So, the bottom line is that this system is a socket 939 with either 1600FSB or (more likely based on this new info.) 2000FSB and, thus, either way it has full support for dual channel memory. I see no downsides here!

Oh, and another bit of info. from the technician contrary to what is posted on various retail websites: the motherboard has 4 memory slots, so it's upgradeable to 4 gigs of RAM (not just 2).

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(NT) (NT) Bravo jbviau!!
Jul 5, 2005 7:13AM PDT
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Re: Socket 939/754
Jul 5, 2005 9:50AM PDT

Then why does it have a maximum memory of 2gig vs the 4gig suported by socket 939?
HP/Compaq have Athlon 64 3400+ units and ALL are socket 754 and NOT dual channel memory!

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Not the same chip!
Jul 5, 2005 10:18AM PDT

eMachines claims 2.4MB clock speed while the example in your message is 2.2MB clock speed. The 2.2 would be 939, but the 2.4 would be 754Happy And the 2.2 version would be 2000FSB with the 2.4 being 1600FSB......Now if anyone has bought one of these rigs, open the box and tell us how many DIMMs and run Belarc Advisor for a full hardware diagnostic please and put this issue to sleep. Shame on eMachines "full specs" link...there isn't one!

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More info. on the T6520
Jul 6, 2005 1:21AM PDT

Good point, Stone. To further add to everyone's confusion, let me post an email that I got this morning from Emachines tech support:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello Joshua,

Thank you for contacting eMachines.

I see that you are considering our T6520 eMachines system to be your
next computer but would like to know some detailed specifications of the
machine first.

I understand your concern on this message. I have checked our resources
and I found out that a T6520 eMachines system has a AMD Athlon 64 3200+
(Socket 939) 2.0 GHZ. I also found out that the AMD Athlon 64 3200+
(Socket 939) 2.0 GHZ has these specifications below.

Model number: 3200+
Frequency: 2.0GHz
L2 Cache: 512KB
Packaging: 939-pin

Further information regarding a T6520 eMachines system's AMD Athlon 64
3200+ (Socket 939) 2.0 GHZ processor can be found on this link below.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487%5E10248,00.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I emailed back to ask why this info. conflicts with the specs posted about the system on Emachines' own website and also on the Best Buy and CompUSA websites. I'll post whatever response I get. If this is correct (who knows at this point?), then the processor would be the same as the one that was in the T6212 (right?).

At this point, I agree that we just need someone to open up the T6520 and tell us (please, I beg you!) what's in it.

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Great job Joshua!
Jul 6, 2005 1:59AM PDT

These machines, particularly socket 939, are the first choice of budget minded, tech minded buyers like me. I own a T6212 and it is great!
I made the same inquiry via telephone and after stumping 2 or 3 people a tech came on the line and said that the T6520 is the same processor and mobo as the T6212 with the addition of 1 gig of memory vs half that, Windows Media Edition and a larger HDD. Now if only I had waited.Sad
Those that have been considering this machine...go for it!!!!
And, as Joshua said, if anyone buys one, open it up and give us the Mobo model and processor spec. If you don't want to open the box during the 30 day return period, run Belarc Advisor and post the results which will show all the specs.

Keith

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Too good to be true...and it was
Jul 6, 2005 7:32AM PDT

OK, so I went to Best Buy today, and a technician there was nice enough to open up the case of a T6520 so we could see for ourselves what's inside. As it turns out, the info. listed on the websites is correct, but the info. that many Emachines support people have given me and Stone and everyone else is unfortunately incorrect.

First, the RAM situation: Inside the T6520, the motherboard has only two slots for RAM, so it's only upgradeable to 2 gigs maximum (as opposed to 4 gigs).

Second, the processor: It is, indeed, an Athlon 64 3400+, operating at 2.4 GHz (at least this is what it says when you click on ''Properties'' for the CPU on the desktop). Fairly concrete evidence that the processor is socket 754 and, thus, does not support dual-channel memory. There was a fan over the processor obscuring my view, so I couldn't see any labels or other indications of this to be sure, and I couldn't run any diagnostics. The guy did look in the BIOS but didn't see any useful info. Anyway, it's reasonable to conclude that Stone was right all along. The T6520 doesn't have some hybrid OEM 3400+, it just has a plain old vanilla 3400+ that's socket 754.

Very disappointing. I emailed this to Emachines tech support to let them know that they've got the wrong info., and we'll see what happens. In the meantime, I'm now thinking I should buy a T6212 before they disappear from the shelves.

p.s. One other potentially useful tidbit I learned from my non-expert look inside the T6520: the power supply is 300W.

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AMD has made '*******' type processors before
Jul 6, 2005 3:48AM PDT

for a OEM and it is not listed on any AMD charts of Processors that I can find. Recall this being discussed before:
The HP Pavilion a810n Desktop is listed by HP as having:
Athlon 64 3300+ 2.4GHz
1600 MT/S (Mega Transfers/second)
Socket 754

I also recall that someone in these forums went to Best Buy and got a clerk to open up a T6212 when it first came out to see what motherboard and if it had a 939 processor.

Hmmm... there is a guy over in the Home audio & video forum who claims he works for Best Buy...

http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-7813-0.html?forumID=60&threadID=101704&messageID=1192604