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General discussion

Electromagnetic radiation from hybrid systems?

May 26, 2005 4:02AM PDT

Does anybody know if electromagnetic radiation from the high-voltage components in the Prius's hybrid system is hazardous to the car's occupants?

Discussion is locked

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Only if cell phones are used at the same time.
May 26, 2005 8:06AM PDT

From what I read, its much like:

a. Smoking and drinking.
b. Drinking an driving.
c. Skydiving.

Bob

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...not sure I understood...
Jun 2, 2005 7:24AM PDT

Hi Bob,

With the risk of sounding mentally challenged, I must admit that I'm not sure I understood your response to my original question. Could you clarify, please?

urr

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What about that Faraday cage you are in?
Jun 2, 2005 11:35AM PDT

I forgot to mention that the car body makes a nice Faraday shield.

As to my answer, combinations of things are usually bad.

Bob

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Good old Faraday
Jun 3, 2005 4:39AM PDT

Bob,
Faraday's cage will keep external fields out, internal fields in. Thus, the car's body will keep the motor's electromagnetic field trapped inside it - not exactrly what you want... However, IF the engine compartment serves as an effective Faraday shield then the field will be trapped within it and not leak into the passenger compartment. This is a big if since I am not sure the engine enclosure is complete enough of an RF shield. Besides, Faraday's cage in not very effective against low frequency radiation. I am not sure what frequecy is emitted by the hybrid system. So, the jury is still out on this one...

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Dissect that car.
May 13, 2007 1:51AM PDT

Does that metal "firewall" count?

It's not funny to those that are scared of "fields" when I pull out 2 of my "detectors." I have this WIFI sniffer and this "Mr. EM". Both usually show signals well above what you get in the middle of a corn field.

One person asked me if the fields go away when I turn off the detectors. I was never brave enough to tell them yes. But it would have been funny to find out if they would have believed it.

Bob

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Re: Electromagnetic radiation from hybrid systems?
May 3, 2007 7:49AM PDT

I think you mighta touched on a sore spot here. Not many folks think about this - yet. As with most big companies, and the corruption of the capitalist system that either needs to correct itself or be destroyed, not many folks are going to be willing to indulge the true facts here. Incidentally, the 500 V battery is not in the engine compartment.

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Re: electromagnetic radiation
May 3, 2007 12:21PM PDT

The way the cars are set up is so that there is little to no electromagnetic radiation. It is no different than if you put together a few hundred AA batteries and ran connections to them. You are probably getting a higher dose of harmful RF from your cell phone, laptop battery, or 1960's "radiation box television." (Okay I threw the last one in there for laughs.)

Also, I would be interested in knowing how the car works as a faraday cage. The materials that are used don't really combine correctly (from what little I learned in engineering), and with large glass areas, even if there were harmful doses of RF or EMR would they not just escape and disperse through these outlets?

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Electromagnetic Radiation
May 4, 2007 12:23AM PDT

First remember this: A day without radiation would be like absolute zero. As in the temperature, IE very cold. EM radiation runs from the high energy (Gamma, x-ray) thru Ultra-violet (sunburn anyone?), to visible light to infra red (heat lamps), to microwaves and radio frequencies and on down the energy specrtum toward low energy and Hmmm, absolute zero.

The EMR from your car components is no more energetic or dangerous than the high voltage in your TV tube, microwave, Fluorescent starter ballast/transformer, or air purifying ionization machine.

Damage/danger comes from the energy in the EMR being capable of producing physical changes in cells. Gamma and x-ray can ionize the water in your body to produce radical ions H+, OH-, H2O2, 0=, and the like, or actually break DNA or protien chemical bonds. The body has several cell repair mechanisms to deal with this as the breaks and ionization also happen from chemical sources in our food. The body doesn't care what caused the damage, it just repairs it. Ultraviolet light can do the same in the surface layers of your skin, which causes sunburn.

Microwaves work by making the molecules in the food of your oven rub together and generate heat by friction. The energy there is just right for causing the water in food to flip flop rapidly to cause this heating. That is why microwaves have shielding in the door. It keeps you from heating up.

The point is EMR can cause physical effects. That is why we need light to see, the EMR in light causes an effect in our retna cells. Normal light levels cause no problem. Too much light makes us put on our sun glasses. Way too much light can cause flash blindness. It is a matter of how much and how fast.

Don't worry about the car's electronics. Worry about the idoit in the next lane passing on a blind curve.

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Did anyone notice. . .
May 8, 2007 11:55AM PDT

the date of the original post? I doubt if the poster is still around.

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I would guess
May 8, 2007 10:09PM PDT

That none of the last three posters, excepting you, noticed that CNET posted a two year old question with a new story series. I know I didn't.

However, part of my PD is educating people about radiation, so my post is still valid. The question is how many folks will read it.

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Electromagnetic radiation from hybrid systems?
May 12, 2007 2:29PM PDT

PRobably not. Generally, EMR is not harmful if it is Direct Current DC that causes the magnetic field. Medical equipment uses very strong DC fields for diagnostic imaging. It the Current is alternating or AC that opens other issues. Is it slowly AC? Home powerlines operate at 60 cycles per second or 60 Hertz, the German who studied how electric current behaves. This is not considered very harmful because of its low repetition rate. Flourescent tubes are glass and do not shield this current. No one seems to care about them. AM radio is fairly high F. Or 1,000,000 Hertz. ~AM 1000. That is considered fairly safe. FM is 100,000,000 Hz or 100 MegaHertz. Various other sources are across the spectrum. CB radios are 27 MHz. No one seems to care. Cell phone and home wireless are in the high Mhz range. THere have been studies that say there is not a hazard.
Microwave cookers are in the high MHz, but the strength of the radiation is very high. A cellphone is considered fairly weak.
So, some radiation may be harmful depending on its frequency rating and its strength. A hybrid has a very powerful battery and motor-generator. But, the radiation is DC or close to DC. Not much AC is around the vehicle that is strong or unshielded. Each system exposes the user to different conditions and must be examined individually to fully determine its safety.

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Let's put this in perspective
May 22, 2007 1:24AM PDT

As a probable member of modern society (you did post this request by computer), you have lived your entire life in buildings where you are surrounded with AC power. This exposure has been long term (even when you sleep), and has been multi-generational (your parents and probably your grandparents were exposed to the same radiation). Furthermore, at times the field strength you have been exposed to has sometimes been rather strong. Remember when your mother told you to not get so close to the TV? This was good advice, as it was bombarding you with EM energy as the electrons the CRT gun squirting directly at you were emitting radiation as a consequence of impacting the screen. You didn't grow three eyes or mutate into an alien from all this lifelong EM exposure, and neither did you parents who did the same thing.

My response is admittedly somewhat cynical, but not all technology is bad. A great deal of study has been done on EM radiation over many decades, and very little evidence has been found to support any claims of tissue damage. As with most everything in life, moderation is the key.

If you want to worry about something, worry about exposure to RF energy. You are at much higher risk of harming yourself if you spend lots of time on your cell phone. After all, it is a near-microwave emitter located within inches of the most sensitive tissue of your entire body. If you spend many hours on it, you are literally slow roasting your brain. There are too many stories of avid cell phone abusers who develop a rare brain tumor for cell phone safety to be taken for granted.

Don't abuse your cell phone, and use a headset whenever possible. A wired headset is best, but even a bluetooth isn't nearly as bad as a cell phone when it is straining at its full transmission strength to stay connected to a distant tower.

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Yes & No?
Nov 15, 2007 7:53AM PST

I could not see any research being done on this topic you posted.

However the effects of EMR on biological beings are being studied. I could not find a definte "Yes" nor a define "No".
Even the W.H.O has not given a definite conclusion but indicates there is a potential risk with EMR. And wants more research to be done especially in the ELF ranges.

There are different schools of thought and some say there is a effect and some say this is not of concern.

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Another lonely person with a genuine concern
Nov 15, 2007 8:10AM PST

I think so. I could not find anyone caring even to ask a question on this topic probably out concern for being ridiculed or mocked.

Have you measured the radiation levels in the Prius by any chance?
Also fyi, the radiation levels are also present very much in regular gas cars. The common sayings is that levels upto 3 milligauss are acceptable but I found several hotspots in my car which are above 100 milligauss inside the cabin and at other places it is between 10 -30.

The faraday cage theory does not seem to work in this case. The steel firewall is not useful for Magnetic radiation. Generally it cannot be blocked unless specific metals are used. The steel firewall is probably shielding Electric fields.
The field strength is inversely proportional to distance. That is move away and it diminishes, get near it increases.

In discussion like this, an analogy is always drawn to home etc. But there is a big difference, at home one can reorient and/or distance from the source but not while driving.

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Is Electromagnetic Radiation from Hybrids really a danger?
Nov 18, 2007 7:58AM PST

I am very much relieved to see some one else asking this question. I my self have had the same concern since I first heard of the technology some years back. All I know for certain is that it has been documented that people living near high voltage carrier lines have higher rates of cancer. And DC power or not, an electric motor throws out a surprisingly large amount of EM radiation. A great example of this are the airwick air fresheners I have in my house. (You know the ones that you hang on your wall and every half an hour they spray an Aierosol sent) Well they run on 2 simple AA batteries, (and yet) every half an hour, if my T.V is on, I can see fuzz run across the screen for the exact duration of the spray. I here the airwick hiss (from the kitchen mind you) and thus, that little motor inside apparently pumps out enough EMR to consistently cause an instant of fuzz on my T.V. (and its through another wall to boot) I find this greatly concerning. The most dangerous Em fields come from not only A.C. currents, but also from rapidly ascending\descending electromagnetic fields--an electric motor has both.

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Just for fun...
Nov 18, 2007 8:01AM PST

You will see EM fields all around your basic alternator. You'll find motors with fields in the ventilation system.

I bet you could scare those that don't like EM fields away from cars altogether...

Bob