Editing MPEG-2 video

Yes, .MOD is truly and MPEG-2 file. It is JVC's funky wrapper, but it is an MPEG-2 VOB file. I went to Sony's website (since you recommended Vegas) but it doesn't mention anywhere on the page that Vegas is capable of editing MPEG-2. But you say you can edit MPEG-2 video (without conversion) in Vegas? That would be great! I have an app for converting to DV so that I can use the standard array of video editing apps, but that conversion will also come with a loss in quality.

NO ONE can edit MPEG 2 without decompression. You can "cut" at I frames but if we go outside an I frame any and all software will have to decompress a certain number of frames to perform the cut.

Furthermore to display any compressed material, it must be decompressed.

Just so we're clear on the topic at hand.

Yes, Vegas let's us use MPEG-2 files as source for your project.

-> In closing, please tell me what software can do this without decompression and such.

Bob

Thanks for your help in this matter. The question I was trying to ask was in fact "does Vegas allow you to use MPEG-2 as a source for your projects?", and your answer obviously indicates yes.

To clarify my previous post, I wasn't asking if Vegas could do it without decompression, I was asking if it could do it without conversion. The difference of course being whether or not MPEG-2 is allowed as a source. If it wasn't, I would have to convert to DV and then do the editing. I completely understand that there are no "non-decompressed MPEG-2 editors" out there, as such a feat would require the most disgustingly powerful computers, due to the nature of MPEG-2 encoding.

Thanks once again for your help.

When you hit the final step to make your DVD, Sony will faithfully follow your compression settings and recompress the video.

Sorry, there is no known software that will meet your requirement.

Cheers,

Bob

also take in Mac video files (the Mac entry level software). The current version can also edit HDV if you have a camera that shoots it. That's full Vegas, not the Studio version.

If you read all their posts you find their complaint is about the CPU power required to render the video. Sony Vegas as it turns out will not meet their requirement.

Bob

core AMD 64 with equivalent memory and hard drive for HDV rendering. Also, Vegas can distribute the rendering job to several machines. That capability is included in the single issue license. He also says that, sometimes, you just start the render before you go to bed and check it in the morning.

The same sort of capabilities can, of course, be used for normal SD rendering if it is too slow using mpeg as the source. Of course, if the complaint is money rather than speed, there is no solution.

After a lot of research on how to edit the MPEG video from my MICROMV camera, I came up with MPEG VIDEO Wizard http://www.womble.com. It came highly recommended on a few video oriented sites a s the best mpeg editor. It can do simple cuts and complex transitions, and will re-encode the fewest necessary frames.

It is 100 bucks, but I think it will be worth it. I am just getting started with it, but I am impressed so far.

ar

I've been looking at Sony Vegas because of its ability to source MPEG-2 files for projects, but I'm not sure about how much re-encoding it does for editing. Did you have any information on how MPEG Video Wizard compares to Vegas?

While we like it, your requirement of no encoding removes this fine software from consideration.

Cheers,

Bob

I think that things are being read into what I say without me saying them. I do not have the expectation that no encoding will occur (the less encoding the better as far as I am concerned), but I understand that editing will change the frames involved and thus require re-encoding, and also result in further losses during compression. What I was interested in was an editor that was capable of using MPEG-2 video as a source. I do not want to have to convert to DV first, or have the editor convert to DV for a working format, because that will only add to the losses experienced before final encoding back to MPEG-2.

You were very helpful in providing me with information about Sony Vegas. It sounds like it does what I am asking for, provided that it does not convert source files to DV for a working format and just decode the DV in realtime. So I will ask that question straight up: Does Sony Vegas convert MPEG-2 source files into DV files during editing as a working format?

When a person lacks knowledge (as I do in this case) sometimes they do not even know the right questions to ask in order to gain that knowledge. I hope I am getting closer.

format.

The screens you look at don't accept MPEG pictures. To see such on the screen, the video has to be decoded. All this is fairly transparent and if you must know what exact internal memory format the Vegas system uses you'll have to kidnap one of it's programmers and force them to tell. But it is surely not any more CPU intensive than anything else I've used.

I'm unsure why this is an issue (the intermediate results), but some need to know the details.

As to me reading something extra, I can only read what you've written and your posts indicated that recompression was unacceptable. This leaves us with tools like Virtual Dub in it's stream copy mode.

Sony does not make me wait for MPEG 1, 2 or other content to decode into it's internal format. Making the final DVD however can be time consuming. Which I don't find to be any slower or faster than other products on the market.

Hope this helps,

Bob

for it's operations. I don't recall who I got this from, but I think it was Douglas Spotted Eagle.

The problem I have with AVI is that an AVI file can hold any 4 CCCC content. Even DV can be held in a .AVI file.

More about 4 CCCCs at http://www.fourcc.org/codecs.php

AVI is not enough detail about what's in the .AVI. Any of these FOURCC encodings can be an in .AVI.

What a mess.

Bob

looking which 'type' it is. When capture is done in Vegas, it creates an AVI which holds the captured video. There is no saving or rendering which needs to be done to get this file. I am assuming Vegas follows the Microsoft spec for the file, but I've never had the need to study it. I know its not the DV file, or an mpeg file.

They are just wrappers that contain video and audio in a standard package. As Bob mentioned, the codecs used to compress the video and audio can be from among many. It is possible, and even likely, that the .avi file that Vegas creates from captured video is in fact DV video. I'm pretty sure this is how it is done on Macs with iMovie.

I assure you that I understand that video must be decoded in order to be displayed (or even edited). I also understand that you need to clarify that in order to make sure that we are on the same page. LOL.

What I am after is if the MPEG-2 source video is converted to DV as an interim format. This would allow quick editing of the video, since DV is an easy format to edit, but would result in more quality loss than if the video was edited in uncompressed form. Since I am already working with MPEG-2 video, I'm not keen on introducing additional quality loss by converting to DV, decompressing and recompressing the DV during editing, and then converting to MPEG-2 to burn on DVD. I would rather decompress the MPEG-2 to an uncompressed form, edit it, and then recompress to MPEG-2 for burning to DVD.

Hence my question about whether Vegas stores the MPEG-2 source video as DV as an editing format. It isn't just morbid curiousity regarding how the software works. I'm by your post, though, that you don't know offhand if Vegas uses DV as its internal format. Only that the format it uses is very easy on the CPU (which could mean uncompressed, or it could mean DV, but rules out MPEG-2).

Since you have a concern about CPU load, ONLY the programs that "clip" at I-frame bounderies such as Virtual Dub would ever meet your requirements of light CPU loads.

Sorry, but no other software I know of will meet your requirements.

Cheers,

Bob

I believe you are inferring that I am concerned about CPU load from a comment I made in a previous post:

"I completely understand that there are no "non-decompressed MPEG-2 editors" out there, as such a feat would require the most disgustingly powerful computers, due to the nature of MPEG-2 encoding."

I never intended to imply that I was concerned about CPU load when I made this comment. I only meant to illustrate that I do in fact understand the fact that editing requires decompression and recompression. In order to directly edit MPEG-2 (and not DV), a computer would have to decode the MPEG-2 video, perform the required edits, and then re-encode the video for storage. To try to do this realtime (i.e. on-the-fly) would require huge processing power, since MPEG-2 is very demanding to encode. I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any consumer desktops out there that are capable of this feat. As such, I would also imagine that there is no software designed to do this kind of editing either.

So, now that I've established that I'm not concerned about CPU load, does this open the door to any other editors out there that are capable of using MPEG-2 as source video and store the video in uncompressed form during editing? I understand this would require large HD capacity, since uncompressed video is HUGE. But I have lots of hard drive space (a couple hundred gigs).

I got respectable performance from Ulead and Sony Vegas on a Pentium 3, 600 MHz with 256MB RAM running Windows 2000.

However today's machines are much faster and I don't wait long as I used to.

-> And when editing, there were never more than a few second delay on the old laptop. Today? Not much more than a blip.

We've been back and forth a lot and I can only take what you write as your "spec." I'm sharing that it's not unreasonable and I don't want you to be unduly upset if you pay out for a nice video edit software.

Cheers,

Bob

PS. Where do I see the big delays? DVD rendering. Not during editing.

I think from all of this, Sony Vegas looks like a very good solution for my needs. I also suspect that because Sony has several consumer products that use MPEG-2, and because they target Vegas at both the consumer and prosumer markets, they probably took some care at integrating the "best possible" support for MPEG-2 into Vegas. After all, they have probably the largest selection of DVD camcorders, and they also have their MicroMV format (which, unless I am mistaken, is also MPEG-2 based).

Thank you very much for your help.

this great program was designed just to edit MPEG video. It re-encodes the fewest necessary frames,only when complex transitions are used. It has all of the features of a traditional video editing system and seems to run very smoothly on my Athlon 3200+ w/1 gig of ram.

I use it to edit my micromv footage which are high bitrate mpeg files. It has a one month free trial, so you've got nothing to lose. If you go to http://www.videohelp.com/, a tech oriented video site, you will find many recommendations for this program as the best for editing MPEGS.

I would give it a try. I just started with it, and I am thrilled with the results.
http://womble.com/

good luck.
ar

That user that mentions WOMBLE has a bad track record. In all the posts I can find by them, they only have this answer.

Most likely a SHILL so you may want to see what other tools they talk about.

Shills are easy to spot.

http://www.cnet.com/5303-4_1-0-2.html?tag=tab&ursRegID=20084278216540127448606859855307

Bob

I could care less whether you think my advice is legitamate or not. I have recently gone through a search for a tool that will do exactly what this guy wants to do, and I am excited because of how well it works.

So, whatdoyoumean, please, don't take my advice. DO NOT try the free trial of this program.

and Mr Proffit, thank you for your encouragement for a new poster to share their excitement and knowledge.